tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post5048412979597739900..comments2023-06-26T11:23:50.414+01:00Comments on Black, Woman and Winning!: Cooperating with a system set against you!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-25457255759118192032010-04-11T23:53:09.818+01:002010-04-11T23:53:09.818+01:00Ugh. You do not know how refreshing it is to hear ...Ugh. You do not know how refreshing it is to hear other black women say this. Sometimes I feel like I'm on an island by myself. Currently I do not have any black friends in my life and it's because of these issues stated here. <br /><br />Some of my black friends that I did have in the past and unfortunately lost contact with, all felt the same way as me.<br /><br />Both of my parents were black and they raised me to not speak in "ghetto-speak" or to be loud and ghetto in public. My dad had a loud voice, simply because he had a voice that carried (you couldn't tell he was black on the phone) and my mom would always tell him, "D__ you are too loud!" My dad, "Huh? Oh, oh sorry." (continues rambling) Lol<br /><br />Plus my mother was a very feminine women and was submissive - didn't mean she couldn't get her way, she just didn't use all the theatrics.<br /><br />So yeah, that's environment I grew up with. Because of that I have been called an oreo, not black enough, acting and talking white. You know, the usual.<br /><br />I used to get picked on and had black females trying to fight me back in middle school. In high school, they left me alone because I had "adopted" black slang and the black way, so I could fit in and prove my blackness. Though it never came across 100% and I truly never believed it. Yes I know it's lame, but I was young. <br /><br />Thankfully I shook that image off when I was around 18 and out the house. I left the hood in the hood.<br /><br />I simply cannot be around black men or women who behave this way. It's embarrassing. I sit and stare, and I think to myself, "Why?" And then remove myself from the environment.<br /><br />White friends have asked me, why are some black people so loud and obnoxious. It's embarrassing to have white people asked that, but at the same time I feel that it is a perfect time to shine so they understand that not all blacks fit the stereotypes. And they realize this, many people do.<br /><br />I tell people that the reason why some blacks carry on like this is because they are showing out and they think the behavior is cute. Much like how teenagers will act silly (not ghetto) in public. I would also mention that it stems for low self-esteem.<br /><br />But this article opened my eyes to the deeper issues that cause young black women to behave this way and I find it very sad. Yet I agree with the author that they only thing you can do is to remove yourself from people like this, they will bring you down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-10357914991207286692010-04-10T19:52:51.801+01:002010-04-10T19:52:51.801+01:00A long time ago, it used to be whites and non-whit...A long time ago, it used to be whites and non-whites NOW I believe its blacks and non-blacks..black women are looking foolish in front of ALL ETHINCITIES! Being LOUD, AND UNLADYLIKE...Even though white girls are doing this too, they are percieved being feminine until proved otherwise, because their community shows them that way; although that seems to be changing- the key is that TEENAGE BOYS NEED TO BE RAISED AROUND RESPONSIBLE MENAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-19728016987345249632010-04-09T07:35:00.821+01:002010-04-09T07:35:00.821+01:00"We've also identified that intentionally..."We've also identified that intentionally or otherwise others have an interest in Black women displaying non-feminine characteristics. And unfortunately many Black women live up to the stereotype." <br /><br />First I would like to say "Hello". I am soooo happy to find like-minded Black women. I go from crying happily to applauding your articulate thoughts on the subject of Black Women moving on. <br /><br />I may be naive, but how is and who is benefiting from the "strong Black women image? I do think the Black man needs it to justify his preference for White over Black. Also, to rationalize his inadequacies as a man.<br /> <br />But who else could benefit from this horrible image?ARLYNEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03145023786212984241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-2892215876418913592010-04-06T21:25:49.468+01:002010-04-06T21:25:49.468+01:00AK: Thats why I laugh at some of these bm videos t...AK: Thats why I laugh at some of these bm videos that all of a sudden are popping up on youtube with the supposed solution to bw's woes POLYGAMY! I am like wtf bm don't want to pay rent at one house let alone bills at 2 houses. No thank you bm I will be dating out there will be no man sharing for me (lol) and bw actually falling for this madness need to quit it especially when the women all have jobs but the bm has some excuse as to why he can't work girl please!Bellydancernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-62423391362140997452010-04-06T18:39:08.756+01:002010-04-06T18:39:08.756+01:00Bellydancer:
Some white women have gotten out of ...Bellydancer:<br /><br />Some white women have gotten out of pocket too before once I asked a lady if she had children since she was always buying children's clothes, she snapped at me "I'm not married" So when she asked me how many kids I had I said none she asked why and I snapped back "I'm not married" that ended that conversation.<br /><br /><br />LOL LOL THAT was funny! Not perplexing this time either, just funny! NO one likes a stereotype, NO ONE.<br /><br />You see how the ww thinks though.... 'Kids?...when I'm not married at all or never have been??' Yeah, yeah I know not all do.<br /><br />But you see that thought process should be a given. It's sad that some black people, not all, are more like 'I dated him/her for a lil bit'.aknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-12548457869413693422010-04-06T15:17:16.316+01:002010-04-06T15:17:16.316+01:00Bellydancer:
Some bw today get all huffy when I m...Bellydancer:<br /><br />Some bw today get all huffy when I mention to them that I have no children because I have no husband like oh you are selfish for not having children at least.<br /><br />WTH?? See that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about right there. You are being SELFISH if you don't at LEAST have ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN all around the place??!!<br /><br />When black people go to church do they only go because the singing is so good and it's free singing that they're hearing that they don't have to pay for? Do they read the Bible for real? Or do they only skim over the parts of it that they KNOW they haven't followed such as children AFTER marriage only? And do they just fixate on the Sodom and Gomorrah part because they feel better reading that just because they KNOW that they're straight?<br /><br />Wow big moral testing there! LOL You KNOW you're straight so you're morally all set in life?aknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-27573710663362648162010-04-01T20:19:52.130+01:002010-04-01T20:19:52.130+01:00To add to what AK said: Most bible thumping folks ...To add to what AK said: Most bible thumping folks also forget that if you were a handmaiden or enslaved or bonded woman back then you still had more protection than these black women do today with their children. You were bonded to that house and man so he had to protect you, people gave you the side eye back then if you did not handle your business or keep your house in order.<br />Some bw today get all huffy when I mention to them that I have no children because I have no husband like oh you are selfish for not having children at least. Then turn around and ask me what church I go to then get indignant when I tell them I don't attend church. It's like in the bc you have to have these things to matter.<br />Some white women have gotten out of pocket too before once I asked a lady if she had children since she was always buying children's clothes, she snapped at me "I'm not married" So when she asked me how many kids I had I said none she asked why and I snapped back "I'm not married" that ended that conversation.<br />It's gotten so crazy that one women mentioned on a blog that she often calls her husband her partner so other women won't get upset cuz she has one and they don't.Bellydancernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-85070725497695735542010-04-01T18:37:12.995+01:002010-04-01T18:37:12.995+01:00Halima:
To detour a bit, you see, in addition to ...Halima:<br /><br />To detour a bit, you see, in addition to other issues we as black women have, I believe one of our greatest downfalls comes from a need to cling to self-righteousness, piousness and ‘moral rectitude’ as a way of being. <br /><br />Indeed Halima. Black people on a whole not just the women feel the need to say self-righteuous pompous things ONLY when homosexuality/transgender/bisexuality is being brought up even if the black person saying the thing has kids by all and sundry. And then they want to hide behind the Bible and that's NOT what the Bible is there for especially if you're a hypocrite.<br /><br />They seem to forget that if they were pregnant illegitimately or where a man who got 'girls in trouble' just like that back in Jesus's time THEY. WOULD. BE. STONED! And not in the 'pot' way! They would have to hope and pray that Jesus would be just around the corner somewhere! LOL LOL<br /><br />The Bible speaks way more about the immorality of HETEROSEXUAL relationships because of marriage and family than it does about homosexuality. Everybody in the Bible was married, on their way to being married, or widowed and children were always born after marriage and this has alluded some very loud-mouthed black people.<br /><br />All of that routine 'begat'-ing part of the Bible does not recognise any illegitimate births I'm sure. The only recognised one I can think of was Ishmael, from Abraham's wife's servant, who did not receive the blessing, and Jesus who was a 'close call'.aknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-56383385856683515372010-03-31T22:14:21.018+01:002010-03-31T22:14:21.018+01:00Please visit this link about femininity:
http://s...Please visit this link about femininity:<br /><br />http://sojournerspassport.com/the-art-of-being-feminine/comment-page-1/#comment-804MissASPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-67084868132627209922010-03-31T15:36:40.429+01:002010-03-31T15:36:40.429+01:00Since we have been examining the role of being fem...Since we have been examining the role of being feminine and leaving the strong woman archetype behind I thought this may be of interest.<br /><br />A new book has just been released called Fierce Angels:<br />The Strong Black Woman in American Life and Culture by Sheri Parks<br /><br />Product Description by Amazon.com<br /><br />An important work on an essential subject, Fierce Angels explores and explodes the idea of the “strong black woman” as never before. Authoritative yet deeply personal and daringly confessional, Sheri Parks’s bold new study of the black female’s role as communal savior and martyr will challenge and change anyone who reads it.<br /><br />Fierce Angels exposes the overwhelming emotional costs—as well as the benefits—attached to this role. Parks, an esteemed scholar and popular media personality, provides exclusive interviews and astute analysis, as well as accounts of her own searing and inspiring experiences, to highlight the myths and the realities of black women’s lives.<br />Beginning with the oldest ongoing archetype, the Dark Feminine, Parks reveals the layered significance of the fertility of darkness—the abyss out of which the world was spoken into existence, the primordial creator in ancient Greek, Sumerian, and West African cultures, and the essence of Mother Earth herself. As these myths matured, they played critical parts in the assignment of maternal roles to women of African descent, the Dark Feminine acquiring a particularly acrid scent once she crossed the Atlantic Ocean in shackles, bound for a life of slavery. <br /><br />Parks traces the development of the “strong black woman” throughout her life on Southern plantations and New York streets and in countless kitchens in between. From the Black Madonna celebrated by Italian Americans to the nurturing and selfless “Mammy” forced to nurse her master’s child before her own, these abiding symbols of fortitude and dependability only solidified the mold into which the powerful dark woman was cast and paved a path that her descendants would have no choice but to follow.<br /><br /> Bringing it all home, Parks recalls the personal costs she’s paid for her own identity and fascinatingly captures those moments when she is expected to be all and know all, whether for her students at work or for strangers in the produce aisle in the supermarket. She investigates the support systems holding these stereotypes in place—latched onto by those both within and outside the traditional black community—and challenges readers, mothers, and daughters alike to examine how damaging and rewarding the assignment of this role can be and to take control of it within their lives.Bellydancernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-11443853608060808332010-03-31T07:54:29.753+01:002010-03-31T07:54:29.753+01:00@ Anon
Oshun you are astute. And I thank you for ...@ Anon<br /><br />Oshun you are astute. And I thank you for your empathy."<br /><br />You are welcome. I think the other posters have given excellent tips. Karen gave some wonderful suggestions and I agree that an exit strategy would be a wise first choice. I also agree with Halima in that the attackers may be trying to push her out. <br /><br />While she plans her exit and cultivates her new demeanor, perhaps she could also employ a covert/indirect strategy to lessen/halt the attacks/damage control. If the attacks were coming from superiors then it may be a done deal, but if the attacks are coming from peers she could potentially outmaneuver them depending on who their allies are and those she can manage herself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-52737920680671751302010-03-30T17:29:14.211+01:002010-03-30T17:29:14.211+01:00Another movie example about a woman using her infl...Another movie example about a woman using her influence indirectly is Whale Rider. That movie opened my eyes on this dynamic. The wife of the village head helps her husband realize that their granddaughter should be groomed to be his successor because she's the best person for the position.<br /><br />Women have often been negatively accused of being manipulative. This occurs because shrewd women know that they cannot assert themselves directly, but must wield their power indirectly.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12546243241604786339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-86733018307260575602010-03-30T04:39:44.230+01:002010-03-30T04:39:44.230+01:00Continued...
"PioneerValleyWoman said...
I ...Continued...<br /><br />"PioneerValleyWoman said... <br />I wanted to edit my comments...<br /><br />I think it is important to make an observation.<br /><br />Many people think "feminine" always means passive and vulnerable.<br /><br />Has anyone heard the phrase "passive aggressive?"<br /><br />Don't be fooled by the idea that "feminine women" who appear passive and ladylike can never be aggressive, don't get what they want and don't take care of themselves. They just don't do it in an aggressive manner.<br /><br />They might be assertive, but not aggressive, and even today, it is a fine line that many white women, especially professional ones, must negotiate, and I have seen that just this week as our department is searching for a new chair.<br /><br />White men like don't like aggressive white women in the workplace. Yet, it is a catch 22; if they seem too passive, they are seen as not being capable leaders, but too aggressive, they are seen as unfeminine.<br /><br />Too many black women have been fooled by the image of femininity as held up by/for white women, the ideology of passivity. As we well know, just because some women seem passive does not mean that they are. They might be aggressive in the strategies they wield but they present them in a passive-appearing and feminine manner. Others might not even see the aggression, because it is carefully masked and might only be seen behind closed doors.<br /><br />It is about wielding influence and women raised to be feminine are taught that. Seeming feminine and ladylike gets women in a position to influence others, namely men who go out of their way to provide aid and help. That is the dynamic that has animated the relationship between white men and women from time immemorial."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-37443772494894850182010-03-30T04:38:19.943+01:002010-03-30T04:38:19.943+01:00"Anon 1:15 yes what he was doing was sad and ..."Anon 1:15 yes what he was doing was sad and ugly, but you are comparing a man to a woman. Why are you trying to compare what would be feminine traits or methods of a woman vs. a man. Men and women are different. Yes there are women who can be some coniving b's, but seriously comparing a man vs. a woman?"<br /><br />Umm, okay...I was actually trying to show by giving examples why aspiring to be passive-aggressive (mentioned in Pioneer Valley Woman's post -- perhaps you skipped over it -- I've excerpted in a continuing post) is not a good thing for anyone.<br /><br />The term passive-aggressive does not simply mean being aggressive in a nice, acceptable way as some are assuming. It doesn't mean getting what you want in a passive way, unless intentionally frustating and hendering (usually) a friend or loved one amounts to getting what you want! And it's not cute or okay just because a woman is doing it to you, either. If after reading below what passive-aggressive personality disorder actually entails, you still think this despicable behavior is an a-okay trait for women to culitvate, than there's nothing more I can say to you about it.... <br /><br />"Passive Aggressive (adj.) Of, relating to, or having a personality disorder characterized by habitual passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in occupational or social situations, as by procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, and inefficiency.<br /><br />Passive Aggressive behavior is a form of covert abuse. When someone hits you or yells at you, you know that you've been abused. It is obvious and easily identified. Covert abuse is subtle and veiled or disguised by actions that appear to be normal, at times loving and caring. The passive aggressive person is a master at covert abuse.<br /><br />Passive aggressive behavior stems from an inability to express anger in a healthy way. A person's feelings may be so repressed that they don't even realize they are angry or feeling resentment. A passive aggressive can drive people around him/her crazy and seem sincerely dismayed when confronted with their behavior. Due to their own lack of insight into their feelings the passive aggressive often feels that others misunderstand them or, are holding them to unreasonable standards if they are confronted about their behavior.<br /><br /><br />http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/Pass_Agg.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-26425477864835795402010-03-29T18:46:07.825+01:002010-03-29T18:46:07.825+01:00Anon 1:15 yes what he was doing was sad and ugly, ...Anon 1:15 yes what he was doing was sad and ugly, but you are comparing a man to a woman. Why are you trying to compare what would be feminine traits or methods of a woman vs. a man. Men and women are different. Yes there are women who can be some coniving b's, but seriously comparing a man vs. a woman?Welcomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06873814449216446881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-65355839144809942392010-03-29T14:49:02.354+01:002010-03-29T14:49:02.354+01:00"...when the armour becomes a prison, then it..."...when the armour becomes a prison, then it is time to shed it." So true. <br /><br /><br />Thank you everyone for your input. You have given me some useful ideas that I know will make a positive change. I am grateful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-53147135316726875742010-03-29T08:30:44.761+01:002010-03-29T08:30:44.761+01:00Anon 09:46
Some tips for your daughter:
1) If po...Anon 09:46<br /><br />Some tips for your daughter:<br /><br />1) If possible begin a strategy to change jobs. This is necessary for her in order to have a "clean slate" to start anew.<br /><br />2) Until then, I would recommend that she review how she dresses (is it masculine or feminine)?<br /><br />3) Obtain a few books on the art of being a lady. A few recommendations: Emily Post's Etiquette, 17th Edition / The Art and Power of Being a Lady (by Noelle Cleary)<br /><br />4) Is her circle of friends conducive to her behaving in a more feminine way? If not, she needs to re-evaluate her friends.<br /><br />5) Does she have healthy pursuits that allow her to detox from her work environment? Hobbies or crafts that put her around completely different types of people or women (i.e. non-AAs)?<br /><br />6) I kindly suggest she stop the "making them feel small in their manhood". It makes her look small and it is not a pretty look. No one should be attacked for what they were born with. She would be much better off to either address the issue that caused the affront in a calm, factual manner (no raising of the voice) or clearly state "I am offended by what was said and have no interest in further entertaining the discussion". If she really wants to turn this paradigm on its head, she could go even further to state, "I have had enough. I am a nice person and I am no longer interested in constantly engaging in battle with any of you". She then needs to stick to it. Not knowing whether she is in phyiscal danger, I see no reason why she cannot change the nature of the game by changing the way she reacts to it.<br /><br />She then needs to follow this with action by changing her mannerisms, dress, speech, everything to transform herself into the beautiful lady waiting to be discovered.<br /><br />HTH<br /><br />P.S. - I firmly honour her need to have had this armour (I have had various armours in the past) but when the armour becomes a prison, then it is time to shed it.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08241393474934762460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-62472848027216893432010-03-29T02:28:30.679+01:002010-03-29T02:28:30.679+01:00Halima,
I can't thank you enough for your ong...Halima,<br /><br />I can't thank you enough for your ongoing, pioneering work for BW's uplift. The things that you've said have really got me thinking! And what you're explaining with this post is of critical importance for BW. In a patriarchal world, <b>very bad things</b> are allowed to happen to women who are un-women. Un-women DON'T receive the "4 Cs" that you mentioned of courtesy, concern, consideration, and concessions.<br /><br />Too many BW either never understood or have lost sight of the fact that <b>these 4 Cs = protection for women.</b><br />_______________________________<br /><br />MissASP,<br /><br />Thank you for mentioning <i>The Art of Being Feminine</i> and <i>Elegant Woman</i> blogs. I hadn't heard of them before. From what I've seen so far, I'm impressed!<br /><br />Peace, blessings and solidarity.Khadijahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07732325133964607276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-64838277387460146032010-03-29T01:15:10.994+01:002010-03-29T01:15:10.994+01:00I used to date a man who exhibited passive-aggress...I used to date a man who exhibited passive-aggressive behavior. Rather than being upfront and ASSERTIVE, he would show AGGRESSION (a generally negative trait) underhandedly by procastinating, being very stubborn and by pretending to be "forgetful". I'd ask him for favors like taking me somewhere, dropping me off, or picking me up in his car -- he'd readily and happily agree, but when the time came to actually do it, he was nearly always nowhere to be found and I had to scramble for alternate plans at the last minute. This went one for a while until I caught on that he would always leave me hanging and I stopped relying on him. Another thing was that he'd make a point of always forgetting my birthday, even though I told him presents weren't necessary but that he could at least call or come over. He considered himself easy-going and laidbackbecause he was non-confrontational but he still got his agressions out by always intentionally not keeping his end up and by intentionally letting others down.<br /><br />The passive part doesn't make it more agreeable or feminine; it just makes it more cowardly and frustrating for the person who has to deal with it. This behavior is not a noble trait for anyone to aspire to -- men or women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-82584409124393967082010-03-28T18:44:22.469+01:002010-03-28T18:44:22.469+01:00Anon at 2:56:
PioneerValleyWoman you have provid...Anon at 2:56:<br /><br /><br />PioneerValleyWoman you have provided a useful definition of what femininity means. I know I've been guilty of equating femininity with lack of grit. <br /><br />What stands out for me is your observation that feminine women are strategically aggressive whilst retaining a ladylike manner. You know I really wasn't taught how to do this. And I'll bet many of the negative behaviors we have been discussing arise because Black women are untrained in this kind of femininity. <br /><br />Clearly, it isn't all about comportment, how we dress or speak.<br /><br />My reply:<br /><br />You're welcome.<br /><br />But comportment a start, it is a start because those are some of the first things that draw others' attention.<br /><br />Do we speak like ladies, do we dress like ladies, do we carry ourselves like ladies?<br /><br />When you go out the door, what image are you conveying? Will the world think "coarse?" Or will they think something else? <br /><br />Much of a girl's understanding of men will come from her interactions with the men in her life, her father as an example. What did her mother model in terms of femininity?<br /><br />That is where many women first learn the value of femininity, ie., in seeing mommy interact with daddy and being a "daddy's girl," that she only has to be her charming self and she has "daddy wrapped."<br /><br />But what if a woman has not had that? Observe other women, see how they charm, model their behaviors in interacting with men. Even some good quality movies model that sort of behavior!<br /><br />The charm school program for younger girls is a good idea; preparing young girls for good self-presentation. The link to Sojourner's Passport included some information on etiquette and presenting oneself well.PVWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12410310404539584350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-30393181332393262012010-03-28T17:15:44.431+01:002010-03-28T17:15:44.431+01:00I've got two words that might help...charm sch...I've got two words that might help...charm school. When my two daughters become older I'll be sure to register them both. Here in NYC, years ago there was a school that specialized in Black girls. It had an office in the Empire State Building, I think. Anyone know who and where they are now? Hillary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-18913419553209618112010-03-28T14:56:43.457+01:002010-03-28T14:56:43.457+01:00Halima and PioneerValleyWoman.
Yes yes yes!!! Yo...Halima and PioneerValleyWoman.<br /><br /><br />Yes yes yes!!! You have both articulated what I was trying to grapple with. From the discussion I was beginning to think we as individual black women were responsible for presenting to the world a contrary image for all Black women. That would be yet another burden. So thank you Halima for being specific that it is within our sphere of influence that we should be concerned with. I really don't want to be walking around with a radar that spots the Black woman behaving badly.<br /><br /><br />PioneerValleyWoman you have provided a useful definition of what femininity means. I know I've been guilty of equating femininity with lack of grit. I can't help but conjure up images of period dramas, filmed in soft focus and women floating around with the sun in their hair lol! Your comment reminded me of a scene in the West Wing where a woman used the phrase 'charm and disarm'. Truth is; I know I don't know how to do this. Your last two paragraphs warrants a repeat. You said:<br /><br />"Too many black women have been fooled by the image of femininity as held up by/for white women, the ideology of passivity. As we well know, just because some women seem passive does not mean that they are. They might be aggressive in the strategies they wield but they present them in a passive-appearing and feminine manner. Others might not even see the aggression, because it is carefully masked and might only be seen behind closed doors.<br /><br />It is about wielding influence and women raised to be feminine are taught that. Seeming feminine and ladylike gets women in a position to influence others, namely men who go out of their way to provide aid and help. That is the dynamic that has animated the relationship between white men and women from time immemorial."<br /><br />What stands out for me is your observation that feminine women are strategically aggressive whilst retaining a ladylike manner. You know I really wasn't taught how to do this. And I'll bet many of the negative behaviors we have been discussing arise because Black women are untrained in this kind of femininity. As you say femininity is not about being passive. Untrained women lurch between passivity and aggression. For those like me who have not had the benefit of this kind of training where do we begin? Clearly, it isn't all about comportment, how we dress or speak.<br /><br /><br />@ MissASP<br /><br />Good for you. You sound like you're on the right track.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-54384012001628171722010-03-28T14:44:20.621+01:002010-03-28T14:44:20.621+01:00I wanted to edit my comments...
I think it is imp...I wanted to edit my comments...<br /><br />I think it is important to make an observation.<br /><br />Many people think "feminine" always means passive and vulnerable.<br /><br />Has anyone heard the phrase "passive aggressive?"<br /><br />Don't be fooled by the idea that "feminine women" who appear passive and ladylike can never be aggressive, don't get what they want and don't take care of themselves. They just don't do it in an aggressive manner.<br /><br />They might be assertive, but not aggressive, and even today, it is a fine line that many white women, especially professional ones, must negotiate, and I have seen that just this week as our department is searching for a new chair.<br /><br />White men like don't like aggressive white women in the workplace. Yet, it is a catch 22; if they seem too passive, they are seen as not being capable leaders, but too aggressive, they are seen as unfeminine.<br /><br />Too many black women have been fooled by the image of femininity as held up by/for white women, the ideology of passivity. As we well know, just because some women seem passive does not mean that they are. They might be aggressive in the strategies they wield but they present them in a passive-appearing and feminine manner. Others might not even see the aggression, because it is carefully masked and might only be seen behind closed doors.<br /><br />It is about wielding influence and women raised to be feminine are taught that. Seeming feminine and ladylike gets women in a position to influence others, namely men who go out of their way to provide aid and help. That is the dynamic that has animated the relationship between white men and women from time immemorial.<br /><br />1:45 PM<br /><br />I spoke about this with a Latina colleague recently. She is from a South American Latin cultural background; her husband is Italian.<br /><br />She spoke of those cultures as being very patriarchal and oppressive of women; yet, she spoke as well about where women wield power, in the family, in the home, behind closed doors. <br /><br />She said, for example, women run the home. They influence what happens inside there, even though the man is the head.<br /><br />I mentioned to her a line from the movie, "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," where the young Greek woman is given marital advice from her mom. <br /><br />Her mom says, the man is the head, but the woman is the neck, and the neck can move the head in whatever direction she wants.<br /><br />It is about some women being taught to influence and manipulate, without being aggressive. They can be aggressive, but no one would ever see it.PVWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12410310404539584350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-13694037702707403282010-03-28T13:45:20.800+01:002010-03-28T13:45:20.800+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.PVWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12410310404539584350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29718807.post-42528265556529133112010-03-27T19:10:10.958+00:002010-03-27T19:10:10.958+00:00last anonymous
I think black women can untangle t...last anonymous<br /><br />I think black women can untangle themselves for a generalized negative image by putting in some effort to ensure they are not joined up to the particular image. This is not saying that black women have to make others like them, just for the sake of liking them. It is a strategy to get ahead at work, in life and love etc.<br /><br />It takes some forethought but it is doable. <br /><br />I think people have the abiity to make distinctions (i know we are told we are all black to 'em). Even among ourselves we can see distinctions and even 'them' (white people in positions of authority or who we need in terms of career progression etc)can make distinctions between us. <br /><br />I think also this distinction making comes into play when it is actually needed, that is among colleagues and people we spend extended periods of time with, unlike in the cases of strangers where in 90% of the cases it isnt of any major importance if they seperate you out of the masses and their perception of these.<br /><br />I think this points to how important the close contacts are and how black women need to create good impressions and nuture relationships with those they are around constantly!Halimahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13400009793511308799noreply@blogger.com