Almost a year ago, someone commented on my blog, accusing me of not 'levelling' with black women. She said this after one more example highlighting how black women were being devalued and passed over by the average black man, 'Why dont you just tell black women to forget about looking for black men and focus on white and others?'
You know that comment gave me a lot to think about, and I have attempted in the past to write a post about black women simply looking towards others. Lets face it, if you are a woman of a certain age and certain complexion and you are experincing 'shunning' by black men and even though day in and day out, you work, school or live around them (giving them ample opportunity to make a move) and no black man has of yet snapped you up, then really, why be so concerned about keeping them on the menu (they have had enough time to show interest and have not). It does make sense at least for expedience sake for you to simply look outwards and prospect new arenas indeed tailor yourself towards giving other men an all out chance. No one has finite rescources and at some point in a black woman's search, she is going to have to cut off a few leads to conserve energy and save time. Of course as usual a moral mill stone hangs around our necks (yes we black women have an almost irrational urge to always be 'moral' and consciencious in our dealings even when the people we are dealing with are totally amoral), and I kept to my policy of 'be open to all men'.
However someone has sent in a comment that has made me think twice about my 'keep prospecting among all men', mantra. Focussing in, might be an issue of optimising your chances and sending a clear message to break through the binding and imprisoning assumptions out there that trap black women in disadvantage.
Her is the anons comment
(and yes I have recieved the perfunctury note complaining that DBR seem synonymous with bm in this comment but if you can focus on the 'meat' of the comment for one second.....)
AH ALL THE OPTIONS!!!
I just wanted to tell you all a little story of my foray back into the dating world after a long time being single and basically giving up. I did post my profile on Match a long time ago but found that 80% of the men that viewed my profile were white but NONE would send flirts or better yet an email. Of course, you can bet that the vast majority of the DBRs tried to interact despite my profile clearly not being compatible with them on any level.
I also noticed that the vast majority of the non-black men that I searched for in the listings checked what is now termed "everything but a black woman." I've read the comments here posted by Evia who I respect for the work that she's done. However, I must say that you're not single and out there. I can tell you this can be VERY off-putting and I interface with white people in corporate america all day long. At the time, I interpreted it as proof of the racism in the hearts of white men.
I decided to give it another try and this time check ONLY white men as my preference. Guess what!! The darn floodgates have opened!!!! I was really reticent to do this previously as I am open to all QUALITY men, but I thought I would test it.
Interestingly enough, this has not stopped the DBRs from approaching me. In fact, some are even more aggressive. This sense of ownership is definitely alive and well. They also seem to think that you really have no choice. If they show ANY interest, you are supposed to thank your lucky stars and immediately engage them. I've noticed that in they're approach, unlike the white men, they do not try to show their value as men and good partners. They simply say "I'm a good black man looking for a relationship." While the white men QUALIFY their statements with why they are a good choice. The white men engage me about my day, my likes and dislikes etc.
After ignoring these DBRs, I've noticed that there is a pattern of more hostile interaction. They don't take the time to go back and read my requirements that clearly list white men. They continue to email and try to IM. As if to say "B... didn't you get my emails!! Don't you know that you are supposed to be happy that I am taking the time...!!"
They email me several times and try to engage me on Instant Messaging despite no replies. I've had to block them before the situtation goes further downhill.
I think that perhaps when White Men see an educated, good looking Black Woman who has checked that they are open to dating all races they either think that competition will be too much or that she is really just saying that she is "waitin' on a IBM." Either way, there is a big difference in the response. I should also state that my first time on Match was pre-Michele Obama. They may be getting used to the idea of the middle-class black woman. Or maybe they're just opening up to it more. Something has changed...
I thought I would pass this information along for others because the difference in response was truly incredible. I have to say it feels GREAT to know that you truly DO have options.
Anyway someone else wrote back thanking her for her insight...
Thanks for that information and insight. I guess it falls under the old adage of 'the truth will set you free'. I too am trying online dating again after years of being away. I am using Euro, Canadian and 2 US IR sites and I've always just wanted to check white only because that is my overwhelming preference. But have always been bullied by others & or my own social conscience to do the politically correct thing. Thanks to your observation, I'm going to follow my hearts conscience and post my true desires. I'll just block everyone who doesn't fit the criteria and keep it moving. Thanks again -Anon.
So here we have it, 'jack of all trades, master of none,' 'chase all the available rabbits and end up with none'. This strategy seems to have worked because it communicated that she was open to white men way way more than some general green lighting of 'all men' would have. It gives something to think about....
Yes black women tend to have a moral conscience in excess, weighing them down and talking them out of being totally focussed and Machiavellian in pursuit of their goals like everyone else.
Maybe thats what we need to ask ourselves, why we have such a need to be morally above board. Is this probably about how someone who constantly wants to take a bath might have a constant feeling of being dirty?
Update!
It doesnt hurt to just tinker with your profile (who says you must keep it rigid), indeed if your moral conscience disallows you certain choices, why not have two profiles; one saying all men and one saying white only (on different sites if it isnt possible on the same dating site) and see how this as an experiment goes.
Black women, we need to be savvy and play this thing with intelligence and to win, and stop hobbling along, hamstrung by excessive morality and inflexibility and sticking to 'tradition' and just one narrow way of doing things. Think creatively!
Indeed excluding black men on your profile does not necesarily mean rejecting them but can be about being 'wise' to the behavioural codes of black men and hence your opportunitites with them as a demographic and zoning in where you know your chances and choices (indeed what you seek out of a relationship) can be maximised!
Get clued up about interracial dating, read the IR Dating E-book
And send your questions to relationshipadvice@dateawhiteguybook.com
(I will try my best to give a reply/answer)
Miss Phantom says:
ReplyDeleteThank you Halima,
It pays to be honest with our choices and desires. The exact same thing happened to me (as in explained in the response before). If you put it out there that you want a certain kind of man, you have to put it out there. Men are not mind readers, they may guess or have a hunch but men often times need to be told straight of the gate.
And as this woman said...you will get flooded! lol!
And it is true the BM will respond and it is as if they hadn't read your profile. They just see your photo and jump for it. To those, I simply deleted, I had not time to respond to that. If they are responding and you made it VERY clear about what you want and they are the opposite, then you know they have a problem...some of had the nerve to have those thuggish looking expressions or wearing do-rags and such and hear you are looking fore marriage as a professional woman. It has you thinking like (????) Just delete them. Move on.
But it pays to be specific about what *you* want.
Halima, I'm so glad you made a separate post about those comments because they hit a nerve with me.
ReplyDeleteIn my life I did not consciously exclude bm. In my case I was blatantly excluded by them. I was not one that said 'only a bm'. I would take a look any any fellow in my world that I felt I had things in common with. However when I thought about my approach (albeit not very aggressive) I see that in essence I did not expect bm to be interested after a while. This is after a good number of years in all-black settings of different kinds with no fish biting.
My main exposure to men has been bm and wm. When I was younger (after college) my social circles were mainly all-black ones. There was plenty of opportunity for bm to approach me to date. The ones that did had major problems with my career (usually the first question I was asked). This is when education level became a major part of my selection criteria. When I saw that this was NEVER a problem with wm (no matter their education level) I gravitated more towards them as romantic possibilities. I suspect the way I carried myself communicated that I was not leaning toward bm the older I got. Who wants to live as a masochist? Who wants to waste time beating a dead horse? Go where the fish are biting and have a grand time.
I probably would not make a blanket statement telling all bw to forget bm even though the chances are not all that great these days. HOWEVER I probably would make that statement to bw 40 and older. Being older generally narrows the availability. By the time you are 40 you have establish a way of living that probably will not change much. If you are comfortable with your lifestyle or are looking to better your life, try and meet men of like mind. If there has been a pattern of bm rejecting you up to this point there is probably no chance of one all of a sudden becoming interested in you. Again go where the fish are biting and have fun.
I've always believed that bw had the right to include or exclude anyone she wanted from her dating pool. We are so often told that we should not discriminate when EVERYONE else does. If a bw truly wants to embrace all men, fine. If she only wants a certain type, that's fine too. We are obligated to no one.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was in law school MANY years ago, I "learned" how to date WM as a BW: put it out there, WAAAY out there! I was shocked at how "forward" one of my classmates was; however, she had no interest in BM, even those who were interested in her (and those who were, objectified her body and never pursued her like a find, joy, or queen). I was taken ABACK at how obvious she made her preference and desire; however, years later, I recalled her behavior and saw it borne out of necessity ... and SMARTS. It's not like she pawed the WM or was inappropriate; she DID "toss" herself at them in a way that this kinda Southern BW felt was too forward. I'm pretty sure one of 'em married her (I hesitate only because I can't recall the details of her marriage, which I'm pretty sure made the rounds). The only folks who had a problem with her were the folks who could do NOTHING for her: US. LOL! I wish I were smarter and followed her lead (or at least gotten a bit of her wisdom).
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work; I love your site.
Hi Halima,
ReplyDeleteJust adding my two cents. Black man have had 400 years to lock down the affections of black women. After all bm and bw have been through together, if bm haven't locked down bw by now, it's their fault, and the black woman shouldn't worry about taking the moral high ground. She's already done that for centuries, and look where it's gotten her. To all bm who haven't had the sense to secure the treasure of a bw by now, I'd say it's too late for him. The single sistahs should give the other men a chance.
Halima, your reader's story is totally true in my experience. I had placed ads on dating websites before where I had indicated I was interested in all ethnicities of men. The response I got from white and non-black men was tepid, at best. Then I went on an IR dating website (based in Europe) and placed an ad for white males only (I actually said "Euro" white only), and I was deluged with responses from white men, Euro men, non-black men and black men (in fact, I got more responses from black men when I had excluded them than I got to my ads where I had included them). I got responses from white men who fit the profile I had requested and from many who didn't. But even those white men who didn't fit the profile responded so politely and attempted to get me interested in them - so much so that I was moved to respond politely to them, and even ended up in correspondence with a couple of them who didn't fit the profile. This was in stark contrast to the black men who responded. They repeatedly tried to email and IM me (which I blocked eventually), even after I went from polite, to rude to ignoring them. They were insistent (and some asked me for money and a visa to the US!) and said nothing to make themselves attractive to me. Needless to say, this was an eye-opening experience for me.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that lots of white men just need a little encouragement from BW to make a move. The interest is there, but they think we're not really interested in them, or only want them as a "fallback" guy. It's important for us BW to be honest with ourselves, focus on what we truly want, and go after it. I would also suggest that, even for BW who don't want to exclude quality black men, that they use separate ads and/or separate dating sites for their "white men only" ads and "all-inclusive" ads. That way, BW can get the best of all worlds!
Hey there, Halima, finally checked out your blog from Sara's site and I'm loving what I see! It's true that we as BW feel the need to reassure BM that they are not out of the running when it comes to dating BW. In fact, in order to not look racist in real life I feel the need to say that I would consider dating a BM when truthfully I am not romantically attracted to them.
ReplyDeleteWhew...it feels weird acknowledging that...almost as if I am committing a wrong or something. But if loving caramel, butterscotch and vanilla is wrong, I don't want to be right, LOL! I don't get why it's OK for black men to say they exclusively date non-black women but if it's the other way around you are a sell-out and lord knows what else! My male cousin was chuckling last week about how black girls kept flirting with him and said, and I quote, "They'll soon realize I don't mess with dark meat." Uh...WHAT?? It's OK to have a preference but why take such pleasure in stringing girls you are not interested in along? And dark meat...this kid is blacker than coal himself LOL!! I'm glad he doesn't like black girls though...he's a drug dealer with a police record and damaged to the core.
So now I am not going to be ashamed: I PREFER NON-BLACK MEN!!
"Should BW totally forget about seeking for that good BM"
ReplyDeleteIt's not politically correct nor sounds very nice does it? Reminds me of the old adage: Everyone who smiles in your face is not your friend...When seeing someone headed in the wrong direction, a friend would tell them...Same goes for not telling that same friend the truth for what it is...Halima, you represent that friend to Black women...Anyone else who has a liking for the truth would say the same...Just because something may be "out there" doesn't mean we drop everything else to go find it...A miner has a better chance of discovering uranium than every BW finding a suitable BM mate...The numbers and circumstances are just not there...People who fill BW's head with these fairytales remind me of the vendors who advertise for Black Friday...Showcase plasma screen TV's for $500 and only have three available...Meantime, the folk who pursue that sale will more than likely experience frustration, get trampled over and go home empty-handed...
THANK YOU CELESTE!
ReplyDeleteHalima, the more I think about this post, the more I realize that this is one of your most important posts yet. I know that your blog is focused more on outreach to the uninitiated and uncoverted BW's who might be seeking to make a life change. But this post is really directed at those of us BW who have already heard and accepted the message. For us, this is an incredibly liberating message. I believe this message truly is one that even the most liberated BW feel guilty and uncomfortable about and banish to the depths of our minds, when we should instead embrace this freedom to choose. And what, after all, is the point of fooling yourself about what you really want? I think this may be a big reason that some of us haven't yet gotten what we want - because we're afraid and ashamed to name it and claim it. This is a very liberating post for those BW who are willing to come to terms with this message.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that quality BM who seek BW have such a rich dating environment that they have no need for a dating site. So the online experience is skewed.
ReplyDeleteI have an interesting complementary situation as a WM seeking BW about my age, which is 50. When I search within a dating site, it's for BW only. But for receiving inquiries, it's been open to anything non-white, because I do have some interest in all WOC (BW preferred). I have to exclude WW, even though theoretically I might be interested (not likely), because the dating pool for my age is overwhelmingly white where I live.
Having some success, but not a whole lot. Part of it is that I have some deficits relative to what most quality women are looking for (long story), and I don't resent that; ppl should not compromise. I also have some really great attributes too; I'll find a fit eventually.
IR is well accepted here, but it's one of the whitest metro areas in the country, especially for my age group. Reading comments here, I am inspired to be bold and only accept messages from BW, as an affirmation of how much I value them. I'll report back on my results.
Also, I've checked "LTR only". Is that scaring women off??
Wishing you all progress.
This post is right. Personally I've excluded bm from my dating pool because they are a plain waste of time. I usually state that I am looking for a white male and go from there. I don't understand the need to be politically correct. Why can't bw just permanently write off bm and be done with it?
ReplyDelete"My male cousin was chuckling last week about how black girls kept flirting with him and said, and I quote, "They'll soon realize I don't mess with dark meat." "
ReplyDelete-------
I would guess this is becoming more common for these men to use bg/bw to inflate their already damaged egos. This behavior is despicable.
I also decided to start checking out online dating. And have found it very interesting. So far, I get more responses from wm (but no real connection, yet). They make no qualms about their interest and what they want. Once we start chatting, in 3 - 5 days I am on a date, pulling up to the table at a restaurant. I had to close my profile to take a break. Since I opted to be open to meet all types of men, I have found the so-called professional (and not so professional) bm who contact me do more email chatting than meeting, some become rude or claim they are too "preoccupied" with their work to schedule a meeting. (1) Why did you contact me and 2) why are you on a dating site if you are too busy to meet? (distractions).
Ladies...KEEP MOVING!
You're welcome, CW!
ReplyDeleteyes thus far this is one of the best post ive read. I normally click on all men, but the next time i do online dating, i'll def. just check wm and see what happens.
ReplyDeleteyes the bm on the sites are no different from the trolls who come here. one guy his title for his email to me was "why do black women have attitudes?". I couldn't believe it. I had to check twice to make sure i was on a online dating site, not YT,lol.
anyway I answered him saying "all black women do not have attitudes. Each black woman is different". Simple as that. Then he keeps emailing asking if he can to know me. Mind you his favorite movie was "diary of a tired bm", like who the hell wants to get to know someone like that after already having preconvinced notions about you and other bw?
I continually ignored him until he got the idea that i was not interested.
with wm, they introduce themselves, tell me their hobbies, and ask me the same in return.
black men everthing is "hey shorta, you lookin good ma here's my numba call when you can". I immediately delete those.
one bm used the same email for every woman he emailed. this how i know. the emailed he sent me the first time, i read and ignored. months later it was the same email w/ a different day. I oust him and told him to keep moving and be orginal otherwise don't write me. They are such a joke.
and any time a man writes in his profile that he is a good man/a good bm, run to the hills, most of the time they a good for nothing.
Men seemingly always want what they can’t have and this is the perfect example of that! LOL! When BM “figured” that you were available to them they didn’t care; when you made yourself unavailable to them, they came out in droves. It’s too funny, and it also shows a sense of entitlement and ego- but we already knew that. Nonetheless, this is very interesting and eye opening and, I’ve included a link to my blog post about drafting a dating profile.
ReplyDeleteOut of curiosity, and if you don’t mind, what are the sites you guys have been using?
Wow, Halima. You really outdid yourself on this post!
ReplyDeleteSky, you go girl! Let us know how things work out, will you? In all fairness to the guy on the dating site, I think expecting a person to send a customized email to each individual when making initial contact is a bit much. I know some people go the customized-email route, but I think that should be icing on the cake, not a minimum requirement.
Hi All
ReplyDeleteI am so happy to read this posting. I'll come out of the closet and tell you that I am Anon @2:41 who thanked the Anon @ 3:30 am. I posted as anon because it was very difficult to admit a very freeing truth. I AM NOT SEXUALLY OR EMOTIONALLY ATTRACTED TO BLACK MALES!!! Never have been, never will be. Usually when this is hinted at in real life or cyberspace, out comes condemnation by the bucket. I've been told I'm sick and need to seek professional help. Yet if I had said that I'm not sexually attracted to women it would be understandable! Why am I not attracted to women? Simple..... I'm not wired that way! And that's OK . It should be equally OK that I am not attracted to black men. Why? Because I'm not wired that way! I want to thank you again Anon @3:30 and Halima. This is soooo freeing.
XaiXai
Ditto.
ReplyDeleteI've been dealing with the same issues. Why am I not attracted to black men? Do I have race-hate issues? etc Surely you must find some black men attractive. Why do I only stare at the white guys at the gym? LOL.
@ Aabaakawad
Keep at it. We're slowly but surely waking up.
To XaiXai,
ReplyDeleteAccepting your authentic self is very liberating. I feel the same exact way you do and I don't make any apologies for it. As a result, I am very happy!
Hi Halima!
ReplyDeleteJust dropped by and read this post and it reminded me of a comment you were kind enough to give for my upcoming book, Don't Bring Home A White Boy (And Other Notions That Keep Black Women from Dating Out).
I don't know if you remember, but in the chapter entitled "White Men Don't Express Interest In Us" you said that black women and white men are coming out of a "Cold War" relationship. I remember those words because they explain perfectly what Anonymous experieced-- and why it is that when BW don't SPECIFICALLY say they are interested in white men, we aren't approached by them.
White men (like all men) fear rejection... and they fear it by BW in particular unless they are given direct encouragement that they are wanted and welcomed.
It's because we ARE emerging from a Cold War of mutual suspicion. BW had been encouraged to see all WM as descendants of evil slaveholders... and WM had been encouraged to see all BW as militant and angry. As more and more BW release the baggage of the black power movement, more and more white and non-black men will feel comfortable expressing their interest in us as WOMEN-- without the lens of race.
BTW, I met my husband on an IR dating site almost six years ago now-- and had the same experiences with BMs that many here have related. Sorry to hear it's still going on... but not entirely surprised.
It's interesting that dating black is perceived as a "moral" issue. I'm going to have to think on that. "Moral" seems a really strong word...
Keep up the amazing work, Halima!
k.
Loved the post. Just chiming in to say that I've been where folks are now. I found online dating very liberating and if I had to do it all over I wouldn't change a thing in terms of meeting my husband. In my case I had problems with "Americans" in general so I did the international online experiment, lol.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course I met a wonderful European man (now my hubby) with none of the racist baggage that I'd been accustomed to.
This has been very freeing for me. You'd be surprised how easy it becomes to see the b.s. when you're not all up in it.
Which European site did you use? I want to start online dating as I prefer European men. I have a friend who did E-Harmony and now she is seeing an Italian for 2 months and he lives and works in Manhattan. I don't want to use the American sites.
ReplyDeleteHalima, to answer your question: the short answer is yes.
ReplyDeleteNow, the long answer, which stems from experience and mostly out of anger*: I'll be 32 in three months, and I'm not suffering fools of any color. Since I also have a daughter, I'm in for a serious struggle to find a worthy man who'll serve as husband and co-parent. That being said, I hereby exclude, reject and disown black men as a whole if only for my own sanity.**
* yes, I know, gotta work on that (and my weight, and my education, and my income, and my address before a decent man can look my way. I get that.)
** you can thank the sperm donor for that: he too has that entitlement flu, deciding no one wants me and I'm only to hang out with him on New Year's.
Sorry I made it personal, but there's what, one 'good bm' for every 150,000 or so DBR/DIM [defeated, impotent males; courtesy of Evia]. I made those numbers up, but the point is we're on borrowed time here.
I'm predicting a long comment thread.
ReplyDeleteAtta girl, rainbeaux. Bear in mind that you don’t have to have completed everything on your improvement list to start looking for Mr Right. I hope you won’t be offended if I say that you should only wait to complete the weight loss and change of address first before getting back in the game. You can be working on the other 3 while searching for The One.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 6:44pm: no offense taken, and thanks. I'll be 165lbs lighter at the stroke of midnight (eff what that jive emu's talking about -- I have moderately expensive champagne and hors d'ouevres to sample, not to mention dancing my butt off) and the new zipcode arrives around Ash Wednesday, if not sooner. The brand spankin' new life will come together from there.
ReplyDeleteAlthough dating is a ways off, I still have to shake that "gotta be so flawless I should be mistaken for a Stepford Wife with a mean tan, no matter how much it'll cost" thing in the meantime.
rainebeaux, I was in the process of losing a third of my former self when my fiance and I started dating. I think I may have lost 1/2 of the weight at that time. Maybe being older I realized that I could not claim physical perfection for myself, much less the man:) For me it was more important to gain and maintain a good view of myself. That includes way more than the physical appearance IMHO. That right there will attract men to you. I had this happen quite a bit at my former size which was a wonderful lesson to me. They all may not be romantic interests (none of mine were) but they will probably strike up a friendly conversation. A warm smile really help.
ReplyDelete@ rainebeaux
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on all your changes! For some reason I though you meant you were dumping some man when you referred to losing 165 pounds. :)
"I still have to shake that "gotta be so flawless I should be mistaken for a Stepford Wife with a mean tan, no matter how much it'll cost" thing in the meantime."
I am kinda of digging this because I am so 'there'. I am starting to get distracted when I see someone being beat and flawless.
I want to know about the dating site for the Euro guys too!
I am the original writer of the response which is being highlighted here. I am so very glad that my message was pulled out of the comments section and put on the main page so that more BW can benefit from it. Particularly those who may have tried online dating in the past and were only approached by DBR BMs.
ReplyDeleteI think it is good to speak about the day-to-day issues of finding the right non-black man. For those of us who have "gotten the message." I know that I am very encouraged whenever I see a BW/WM coupling in my community which is predominately white and very conservative. And I am seeing more and more of them.
I conducted my test on a small site just to see if there was a difference. I would love to meet a European man. Can any of the posters tell me what European site they posted on? Thanks!
Halima and ladies,
ReplyDeleteI think we are heading in an interesting direction with the comments, now: the importance of finding a level of self-satisfaction and acceptance before beginning the search for a mate of any race. I know in my own life this proved to be critical.
I met my current husband when I turned 40. 40 was a "magic number" for me: I decided to let go a lot of the baggage I'd been holding about my body and my physical self. I'm that girl who's been on a diet since I was 13... and who always felt there was something wrong with the way I looked. At 40I finally accepted two things: I wasn't going to look like a 20 year old ever again, no matter what I did; and that it was more important to be healthy-- to try to take care of myself-- than to reach some goal of perfection that isn't really real (if you've seen those fabulous Dove commercials, you know what I mean).
I also worked on releasing any issues with my ex-husband and my father- two men who had left big footprints in my consciousness. Forgiveness is key to moving on, loving yourself and loving others.
I sometimes think my relationship with my current husband is a "reward" for being willing to deal with and accept myself-- because he accepts me totally, too. Fatter, thinner, longer hair, shorter hair, aging and hormonal, for richer and poorer and in sickness and in health-- he accepts me and I accept him.
I'm not trying to "change me" anymore... and neither is he. It's a good place to be... but it started with ME and MYSELF.
It's wonderful to read the stories of many women working first on their self acceptance and self knowledge, asking the hard questions about what they believe about themselves and why. I think this is job one for all of us-- black, white, male and female. I say not just "forget about good black men" but forget ANYONE who hasn't gotten completely "cool" with themselves.
Have a great day, all!
k.
Im interested in dating European men also. Particulary an Italian, Portuguese, Greek or Spanish man. I find them INCREDIBLY sexy.
ReplyDeleteI searched the web and found this site. Its free too :)
http://www.europeankiss.com/
Afroromance (an ir dating site) has a ton European men open to black women as well.
Good Luck!
If you’re looking for dating sites where you can find European men, try Interracial Dating Central or AfroIntroductions. I remember reading comments a long time ago on a couple of BWE sites that a bw had met a European guy on those dating sites.
ReplyDeleteA Few European Dating Sites I Found Through Google:
ReplyDeleteEzilonDate.com
EuropeanKiss.com
NetClub.com
PlentyOfFish.com
LuvFree.com
I know these last 2 are free dating sites, so you have nothing to lose with them.
Hmm.. I'm surprised that people don't get that you shouldn't reply to people's profiles who aren't looking for people like. Most of the black female profiles in my local dating forum have 'prefer black male' so I don't email them and waste their time and mine, it's simply being polite.
ReplyDeleteDo not forget to use caution with all men regardless of their ethnicity. Men in general will play you if you let them
ReplyDeleteAnn
For the ladies looking for European dating sites, just google that phrase. If you want to be more specific, for example, you're interested in French men. Just search : French dating sites. You can also use google translator to translate your ad to a particular language. Just be aware the google doesn't always translate correctly, so have a native speaker double check before you hit enter. Also be aware of green card seekers.
ReplyDeleteGood luck everyone.
Xai
Halima, I really can relate to your post. Although, I can't say that I've always been emotionally available, I do not believe that after college I've run into any quality black men. Their numbers started dwindling after highschool and by the time I entered the working world, they were non-existent. However, I have met white men who are kind, generous, intellectually stimulating, engaging, and available. Thus, I've wondered the same thing, about whether it was time to for me to focus my romantic interests in the direction of ONLY non-black men. Life is short, and I definitely can't blame women who sieze the opportunity for quality companionship among the people and places where they are able to find it. My goal is to do the same. I see it as an empowerment issue. Why not reach out and be empowered to target and accept the best out what life has been placed on your path EVEN if that mean's having to leave behind past behaviors, choices, cultural expectations, and emotional ties that just aren't working for you or in line with what you want out of life. This sounds like a reaffirmation of my own plans to me; one in which I embrace the possibilities that can arise when I shape my desires based on the where the best opportunities for fullment of them lie.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Kay
Halima,
ReplyDeleteHelp me and women like me with one issue though: White men smile, tell you their life story, or strike up a conversation about something cute and witty (and keep going and going and going). BUT, they don't close the deal by asking for your phone number when it's time for you to part ways. They only time white men have gotten up the nerve to offer me their phone number is when I've shared social situations/and friendship with them. They commment on how beautiful you are, but the one thing they don't do is ask for your phone number. Should I:
a.) Continue not to offer my number and ask them to call (because it's traditionally a man's responsibillity), and their interested bad enough they should ask for your number.
b.) Break with tradition, and ask the guy if he'd like to keep in touch?
I need advice, because I've met some really interesting guys (and for all the chatter and compliments my convictions about a women's role could be a barrier to getting to know someone better).
Thanks,
Kay
Dear Kay (Anonymous),
ReplyDeleteMany BW have remarked on this behavior from WM. As a WM, perhaps I can shed some light.
White professionals, especially those trained in respecting women by their family, often engage in a rather tentative interaction as a prelude to suggesting a date. I'll talk about the extra hurdle of IR later in this comment, but even with that hurdle, their approach to a BW isn't very much different from when they might approach a WW. The "holla atcha" approach that I have heard so many BW describe about BM, and that I occasionally observe, would be unthinkable for most WM.
What we often have impressed upon us by our families is that it is important to think of women as people first, and potential romantic objects second. Sexualizing at the introduction stage is considered disrespectful, even predatory. Aggressive pursuit is deemed bad behavior. I subscribe to this circumspection myself.
So a careful little dance ensues, first establishing asexual connections to make the lady feel comfortable, while looking for interest by her. What overtures they do make will deliberately be ambiguous, so as to be deniable if the lady turns out to be unavailable, thus preserving the possibility of friendship or at least comfortable interaction, especially if she is a co-worker or comrade who they will continue to be around.
Professional-level WW are familiar with this dance, and will flirt mildly if they want to encourage interest. Often baby steps are taken on both sides. The process can take days sometimes! So generally the range in behavior for her is from mild encouragement to mild discouragement, so long as he behaves within his expected limits.
From what I have come to understand by reading commentary from BW, BM are very much more aggressive. In response to this expected behavior, a BW would heavily discourage a BM she was not interested in. And be neutral, or even mildly discouraging, to a BM she was interested in, making him pursue her.
So there is often a failure to communicate due to mismatched norms of behavior when WM approach BW. WM are unlikely to figure this one out and adjust to your norm. Actually, if you think about it, would you want them to? So as a BW open to IR, you will have to be more encouraging, and more patient with the process.
Some WM (the idiots) may approach lasciviously because they think BW are more sexually available. Cut them down. Most professional-level WM will be even more cautious and circumspect when approach a BW, out of fear of offending or befuddlement, so this brings even more need for the BW to be encouraging, or at least patient. You will have to leave your comfort zone.
I hope this has been helpful. One thing that might be encouraging to you is that if you do calibrate it wrong, the result may be uncomfortable, but is very unlikely you will be subjected to a scene or a an attitude.
Wishing you progress.
Kay,
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with aabaakawad. wm from what I have seen are more subtle in their approach for sure. What he said is exactly how things happened with my fiance (only IR relationship). What was said can be especially true if you have been friends with him for a while like we were. It was so subtle on both sides that when asked about how we got together we tell people that we slid into the relationship. We read each others cues and somehow knew when both of us at gotten to a new level in the relationship. Each time this happened no words were spoken.
What made me realize that something was up was when he out of the blue started asking me about my day and what I was doing. I thought it was really odd at the time because friends normally just want to know the free time you have so you can plan outings. I did not know that this was a major clue that he was getting interested in me. The way he looked at me changed. His look loudly communicated to me 'I want to know everything about this woman'. At the time he probably did not realize that his feelings for me were changing. Again we had been friends for several years before we started dating so it was not obvious to me what was going on.
It is definitely a longer timeframe to establish a romance. I have often told him how comfortable and safe I feel around him. That has made the romance really enjoyable for me. In a month we will be married. He is the most respectful man when it comes to women. I know that he loves everything about me and accepts me as I am. That is such a relief.
So a careful little dance ensues, first establishing asexual connections to make the lady feel comfortable, while looking for interest by her. What overtures they do make will deliberately be ambiguous, so as to be deniable if the lady turns out to be unavailable, thus preserving the possibility of friendship or at least comfortable interaction, especially if she is a co-worker or comrade who they will continue to be around.--Aabakawad
ReplyDeleteIronically, this is exactly the approach that would cause me to fall head over heals for a guy.
Hi everyone,
ReplyDeleteWhat are some classy steps bw in a situation like Kay's can take to drop subtle hints that they are interested in a particular guy (if they suspect he's attracted to them)?
This is for the first encounter: Look a little longer and have a nice sweet smile. A nice smile goes a very long way:) Do not turn away from the man if he is looking at you. Make sure he knows that you are looking at him. This will probably communicate that you are not going to slap him or curse him out if he approaches you.
ReplyDeleteAabakwaad:
ReplyDeleteWhite professionals, especially those trained in respecting women by their family, often engage in a rather tentative interaction as a prelude to suggesting a date. I'll talk about the extra hurdle of IR later in this comment, but even with that hurdle, their approach to a BW isn't very much different from when they might approach a WW. The "holla atcha" approach that I have heard so many BW describe about BM, and that I occasionally observe, would be unthinkable for most WM.
What we often have impressed upon us by our families is that it is important to think of women as people first, and potential romantic objects second. Sexualizing at the introduction stage is considered disrespectful, even predatory. Aggressive pursuit is deemed bad behavior. I subscribe to this circumspection myself.
I agree with lormarie and with aabakwaad. Looking at Aabakwaad's comment on this post just shows up just so much of what I've been missing out on just because of my own skin color and possibly because of class reasons as well, I don't know.
I grew up with a single parent mother but I grew up in good suburban area that was mostly white first in the UK and later on in the USA, and when I was in front of the TV, which was a lot, I of course grew up seeing images of WM courting WW using a lot of civility, respect, consideration, and chivalry most of the time. Of course I saw shows and movies showing WM and WW in dysfunctional and abusive marriages and families too but of course Hollywood does its best to balance out the positive and negative images regarding whites.
And as a kid though, I couldn't see why I couldn't be afforded the same respectful, gentle and chivalrous treatment that I saw on TV from any man in real life once I grew up. And I was sure as anything that a BM would just give me the exact same treatment that I grew up seeing on TV. LOL LOL LOL LOL
Did I get the shock of my life later! In my teens it looked like BM mostly seemed accustomed to posing as hard, tough, straight up from the streets, too cool to care (about a B-word)etc. and we BW were just supposed to put up with it AND like it at that.
If I went into a poorer mostly black area, to get my hair done or something, I'd have to put up with BM loudly hollering at me, walking right up into your comfortable sense of personal space to be right in your face or trying to brush up against me, not to mention their lovely 'swagger' as it's called.
To this day I cannot stand swaggering and I don't know why I'm supposed to find that a requirement in a man or to find it as 'sexy'. LOL
I soon snapped out of accepting that foolishness without questioning it. Never again, it would be too pathetic for me to put up with a man's brazen thoughtless attitude as I get older.
And yes, yes, I realize that any color of man may come up to you with brazen foolishness and bad attitudes, but let's face it when you're a BW only ONE kind of man feels entitled to corner the market with you on that one.
I remember when I lived in NYC just a few years ago and a friend of mine, a WW musician, took me to this bar set up exactly like a speakeasy from the 1920s and 30s on the Lower East Side; she was going there to meet up with her boyfriend who was working as a bartender there.
ReplyDeleteThis place was very under the radar at the time because there was nothing nearby it on the street and nothing on the little door to even mark that it even existed! But inside was small, clean and intimate with a lot of dark woods used, and they made good drinks that weren't watered down and they used fresh fruits for the juice.
But my friend remarked that they even put up these old and genuine speakeasy signs about etiquette. One stated that if a gentleman came up to a bar and spoke to a lady and if that lady didn't wish to speak to him, that the lady should just turn away from him quietly while resting her hand against the back of her head (?)
I know I'm being longwinded I apologize but I'm just saying that there has always been and always has to be proper etiquette when a man is dealing with a lady out in public. But people nowadays like to excuse this behavior as just a 'white domain'.
Thank you Aabaakawad and Pamela. That was great food for thought.
ReplyDeleteKay
Great discussion. Thanks for your input everyone.
ReplyDeletefrom Anon @ 9.46
XaiXai:
ReplyDeleteI AM NOT SEXUALLY OR EMOTIONALLY ATTRACTED TO BLACK MALES!!! Never have been, never will be. Usually when this is hinted at in real life or cyberspace, out comes condemnation by the bucket. I've been told I'm sick and need to seek professional help. Yet if I had said that I'm not sexually attracted to women it would be understandable! Why am I not attracted to women? Simple..... I'm not wired that way! And that's OK . It should be equally OK that I am not attracted to black men. Why? Because I'm not wired that way!
Trish:
Ditto.
I've been dealing with the same issues. Why am I not attracted to black men? Do I have race-hate issues? etc Surely you must find some black men attractive. Why do I only stare at the white guys at the gym? LOL.
energize:
I had to close my profile to take a break. Since I opted to be open to meet all types of men, I have found the so-called professional (and not so professional) bm who contact me do more email chatting than meeting, some become rude or claim they are too "preoccupied" with their work to schedule a meeting. (1) Why did you contact me and 2) why are you on a dating site if you are too busy to meet? (distractions).
To XaiXai, Trish, and the other BW feel the same way that they do, don't EVER feel bad about your own personal taste in men, your choices, and your attractions to them. I used to see BM coming out on TV talk shows back in the 90s all the time loudly declaring their preference for WW over BW totally, and these BM were saying that they would never date another BW again, on national TV. *shrugs shoulders*
If they're not ashamed or afraid, then why do any BW need to be?
I remember two different issues of (m)Essence magaizine that came out back in the 90s as well. One issue had on the cover a title of one of the stories called 'The White Wife', and the BM author and journalist who wrote this autobiographical piece basically said it was nobody else's business who he married, which is true it isn't anyone else's business, and he picked a BW's magazine to give this story to.
This other (m)Essence issue from near the same time had a BM writing one page full of a story that he called 'I Prefer Light Skinned Black Women', and again this BM picked a BW's magazine to give his story too. He was sticking up for his preference in this piece he wrote and sounding all knee-jerk hyper-defensive about it. He bemoaned how he always had to defend and explain his preference to BW who'd get angry at him for talking about his preference, especially when he told some dark-skinned BW platonic friend of his and she told him that she didn't like his attitude regarding his preferences.
My point is these BM have been carrying on in public without a care in the world for what you or anyone else thinks. So why can't BW do the same?
I'm not one for going in public on national TV, or in silly magazines to tell all of my business, and I'm not one to act so demonstratively, but I can still feel free to do whatever I want though with whoever I want as long as I'm not hurting anybody.
Thank you for the information, personal experiences, and links to Euro dating sites!
ReplyDelete4:16 PM
Blogger ak said...
XaiXai:
I AM NOT SEXUALLY OR EMOTIONALLY ATTRACTED TO BLACK MALES!!! Never have been, never will be. Usually when this is hinted at in real life or cyberspace, out comes condemnation by the bucket. I've been told I'm sick and need to seek professional help. Yet if I had said that I'm not sexually attracted to women it would be understandable! Why am I not attracted to women? Simple..... I'm not wired that way! And that's OK . It should be equally OK that I am not attracted to black men. Why? Because I'm not wired that way!
Trish:
Ditto.
I've been dealing with the same issues. Why am I not attracted to black men? Do I have race-hate issues? etc Surely you must find some black men attractive."
Over the past few years or so I have become repulsed by BM. After personal experiences, seeing how BW and BG are treated - I am glad I never had a long term relationship with one.
"Since I opted to be open to meet all types of men, I have found the so-called professional (and not so professional) bm who contact me do more email chatting than meeting, some become rude or claim they are too "preoccupied" with their work to schedule a meeting. (1) Why did you contact me and 2) why are you on a dating site if you are too busy to meet? (distractions)."
I am sure this is another warped role reversal. You [as the black she/man] were supposed to chase, court, woo, and basically do all the work.
energize:
ReplyDeleteI had to close my profile to take a break. Since I opted to be open to meet all types of men, I have found the so-called professional (and not so professional) bm who contact me do more email chatting than meeting, some become rude or claim they are too "preoccupied" with their work to schedule a meeting. (1) Why did you contact me and 2) why are you on a dating site if you are too busy to meet? (distractions).
Oshun:
I am sure this is another warped role reversal. You [as the black she/man] were supposed to chase, court, woo, and basically do all the work.
I am sure that when energize went on the dating website and said that she would date any race of man, that these BM just wanted to see if they could 'win' and get and keep her attention and soothe their bruised egos, and when energize finally says that she would like to meet up with one of these BM online trying to get her attention, they just quickly got over it and stopped paying her attention, because they feel they've 'conquered' and won. Those BM on there trying to get energize's attention probably didn't date any BW in offline life anyway but their ego finally feels alot better when they say to themselves that 'That one is never gonna leave'.
I don't see anything wrong with checking that you are only interested in white men. I have found that the main problem, for those of us who are into interracial dating, is meeting the type of men who we are attracted to.
ReplyDeleteLike any other BW, I do notice a nice looking BM but I am very interested in white men and find that they're harder to meet. If it was a matter of my only wanting to date black men, I really wouldn't need a dating site for that because I am approached by BM all the time.
@ Ak
ReplyDelete"I am sure that when energize went on the dating website and said that she would date any race of man, that these BM just wanted to see if they could 'win' and get and keep her attention and soothe their bruised egos, and when energize finally says that she would like to meet up with one of these BM online trying to get her attention, they just quickly got over it and stopped paying her attention, because they feel they've 'conquered' and won. Those BM on there trying to get energize's attention probably didn't date any BW in offline life anyway but their ego finally feels alot better when they say to themselves that 'That one is never gonna leave'."
I despise men who play games. That is so low down. They can't seriously think they are keeping that "one" from being with a nonblack man. If anything that would drive me further away bc that is another crappy BM experience of not being treated well, wooed, and courted.
Halima,
ReplyDeleteI'm a white man reading your blog. You make interesting points about culture and expectations of black women.
Let me give you a little bit of perspective from a white man. I'm well educated and consider myself well rounded in terms of my experiences with other cultures. My degree is in science and as such I work with many people of various cultures (black, white, asian, indian, etc). From a work experience I see a split among white and black co-workers, black men that are affluent who date almost exclusively white women, black men who date exclusively black women, white men who date exclusively white women, and white men who date women of various ethnicities. Of my co-workers who are black women, a few are married to white men. These women seem to be treated publicly with respect by other black women, but don't seem to be in the click with the other black women. In general, there seems to be some distain of black women toward other black women who date other than black men. Why this is seems to be in the realm of what I refer to as traitors to the cause. Now, the same treatment doesn't seem to apply to black men as I can't see any differentiation between how black men who date white women are treated by their peers to those that date (or are married to) black women. Over the years I questioned this double standard. Once a friend of mine, who is asian, put it this way, for an asian man to date a woman who was not asian was ok as long as he met a nice asian woman to marry. For asian women, this was not the case and she was expected to date only asian men. This seems to parallel what black women experience. So, here is my synopsis. Black women are free to date whomever they feel is appropriate. Black women should not be held to a different standard as black men. In general, if you are a black woman, please by all means, broaden your horizons, date outside your race and culture before deciding to marry someone (black or white). In ten years (or less), it will be common to see black women with white men routinely, so if you do decide to date a white man, you might find the Mr. Right whom you have been looking for but with lighter skin.
Take Care and God Bless you.
I don't know how welcome this comment will be, but here goes:
ReplyDeleteI don't date American WM (AWM) for many reasons, but one in particular. I have NO patience/tolerance for men who can't step up to the plate. I don't buy that AWM don't "holla" at women. I don't buy that they can't be aggressive or that they think its disrespectful to be forward. C'mon now! I see AWM PURSUE non-BW CONSTANTLY. History has shown us that AWM are not at all shy about going after what they want. I don't care why they don't pursue me; I don't concern myself with people who aren't concerned with me, regardless of their color. Plus, if they're too scared to even approach you, how are they gonna deal with the issues you might face as an IR couple? If/when a BM acts up on y'all, is he gonna be scared then too?!? No thanks. (I actually thinks is rather hilarious that people are really believing that AWM are just soooo chivalrous! A lot of us don't even have contact with WM in the settings in which we see BM so we don't know what their behaviors truly are. Of course the WM from your JOB is nice & respectful, but I've seen them hoot & holla behind WM in their neighborhoods.)
I currently live in Turkey, a place where Black people are in the EXTREME minority. Yet, the men over here have NO problem with approaching me even though most of the time they barely speak English! They find a way to make their intentions known. (And they're not just trying to get in your drawers either.) I realize most folks can't just up and move to a foreign country, so I know that many BW who like WM will have to deal solely with AWM. But just like many of us are done changing and rearranging ourselves for BM, the same applies to non-BM.
SZ,
ReplyDeleteMaybe you do not understand what we mean when we say that bm holla at women. We literally mean that many (NOT ALL) of them holler at women at times to the point of being disrespectful in an attempt to get their attention. Many of us have been around a whole lot of awm. I have yet to see a single one holler at a woman to make his intentions known. Maybe in your circles you have seen awm holler at non-bw in their pursuit. If so then your comments make sense. However as a 50-year-young american bw, living all my years in the US in mostly integrated settings, I have yet to see it other than maybe in redneck country.
You also seem to confuse men not stepping up to the plate and being subtle in approach. They are two totally different things. No normal woman wants a weakling for a man regardless of skin color, especially a wm dealing with a bw. In that we definitely agree. That was one of the main things on my list. He had to have a spine and understand what he could face in some circles being with me as a bw.
My fiance was so subtle that if (1) I had not known him for a while and (2) understood the different way that a lot of wm approach women I could have missed the signals. Needless to say I understood his approach and responded correctly. I will be married to that subtlety aggressive wm in a week.
I did not eliminate any men from my view. I checked out who was interested regardless of race. That approach for me worked well because all available men were potential romantic interests. I would check them out and determine if they were quality men that I could run with. If the connection was not there I moved on without rejecting all men from that racial group. I never thought I would be marrying a European man but that is how things happened for me.
May you find a man that will cherish and adore you the rest of your days. I sincerely mean that. Many of us have had to go outside the so-called norms to find love. Looks like you have a great opportunity there in Turkey.
@SZ
ReplyDeleteWe are of course are presenting an ideal. Many WM fall short and can be rude and self-centered.
As to being pursued, all men pursue, but with vastly different styles. Don't confuse aggression with confidence. Aggression is often a substitute for confidence.
Another reason for a quiet approach is "grooming", a term in psychology for building a target person's trust in preparation for attempting to advance or start a relationship (positive or negative). My point being that, because of the time and careful thought invested, someone who "grooms" is serious about their relationships and serious about who they are grooming.
In contrast, someone who comes on strong to strangers & slight acquaintances is not investing time and careful thought. Therefore they are unlikely to be serious about their relationships and serious about who they are hitting on. It's more about pursuing every opportunity.
So a "groomer" who is interested in you has likely thought carefully about whether he would be happy with you. This doesn't strike me as weak.
It not too much of a stretch to think that the amount of effort invested at the initiation of a relationship tells you something about the effort he will put into maintaining that relationship.
Wishing you progress.
--- Aaby
p.s. Pamela, my interaction with AWM has been mostly at school. I went to a pretty selective liberal arts school so I've never really been around rednecks. But, I remember the guys from the fraternities sitting on their porches hollerin at women as they came by and one frat had parties known as the "Please Don't Rape Me" parties because they were constantly slippin roofies to women there. Like I said, I've seen some of the worst "hollerin" behavior ever displayed by some BM (hell, a friend in h.s. was even killed by one after refusing to dance with him at a party), but in the much more limited time that I've been exposed to AWM, I've seen some ugly behavior on their parts too.
ReplyDeleteJust to be clear, my first comment was regarding the explanations about WM not approaching BW because of their fears. I use the term "holla" as a catch-all for any kind of showing of romantic interest.
And thanks for the sincere wishes. I wish all ABW could live abroad for awhile.
SZ,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for adding the context. It made all the difference. I am truly glad to see bw expanding their view in men and in life. When I was young you never heard much about blacks traveling outside the US. More and more I hear about bw doing this, especially reading the IR blogs. Just taking a trip overseas will broaden your view of life. Doing it while you are young is better if at all possible. My first trip (of six) was to Thailand in 1986. I never saw my life in the same way as before.
When I started to tell people about my view of men it was pretty hard but not dangerous as it is in some circles. I said to myself 'I am a grown women and I will do what I want like others do'. I saved a lot of time and avoided a lot of heartache. I am marrying someone from France on Friday evening December 18. We met here in the US. At this point he has no interest in going back there to live but I am planning for that possibility in the years to come.
I am genuinely excited for you and any gal that takes charge of her life and refuses to bow down to madness that does nothing to improve your lives. I love reading blogs like this and learning of stories of bw like you that took a bold step that appears to be working out for you. It truly does take leaving your comfort zone early. However I was blessed to get with a wonderful man at my age (just turned 50 last week). It also takes a wonderful attitude about yourself. You probably have a nice smile. I write often that it really helps when it comes to having men approach you.
I do not know why you are living in Turkey right now but whatever you are there for but may your time be prosperous in every area of your life.
To all: More than likely the next time I post on this blog and/or others I will be a married gal in IR. Pray that I find flowers, pew ribbons and a couple of linens for odd shaped tables by Friday:) May you have a wonderful holiday season (whatever your faith).
Pamela,
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, congrats on your impending nuptials! Good luck with your new life!!
My mother (who's in her early 60s) said the same thing about not knowing Blacks who traveled when she was my age. This is part of the reason she encouraged me to go (hell, she was the one who connected me with the guy who sent me). I was laid off from a GREAT job in March and decided to do something crazy and drastic life move half-way across the world to teach for a year. So, that's why I'm here. My mom has never been abroad, but she's always wanted her daughters to have that opportunity. Its wild, random, and I'm loving it.
I've been told that I do have a lovely smile, and I do feel that I get to show it a lot more now. Especially in my interactions with men. Much of it has to do with the fact that this is a Muslim society and they're VERY respectful of women (in certain ways). I don't have to be worried about being hustled and made uncomfortable. Although I've definitely been hollered at down more than my share of streets while here, I find that if I click my tongue (a sign of disapproval here), shake my head, smile sweetly over my shoulder, and keep walking, I'm left with only more compliments being said behind me.
Why come back to the States, LOL?!?
I'm lucky that, even though most of the BW I know only date BM, they are hardly concerned about BW who choose to do differently.