I just have a few sentences to add to what has already been written. I will start by saying 'mud sticks'.
I hear and see people pointing out the so called doctor's crappy methodology and labelling him 'stupid' etc for not even being able to follow simple research methods, and producing a research analysis that even a high schooler would be ashamed to put their name to, but in calling Santoshi a stupid person unworthy of a PHD, maybe we have fallen for his rouse big time.
See I find it hard to believe that a lecturer in London School of Economics doesn’t know how to make a logic argument or follow applicable and acceptable research methodology or didnt know that his approach would be taken apart in all of two seconds. His methods were just so ... substandard that you just have to consider that Santoshi's objective wasnt ever to do sound research and reach sound research conclusions, and wasn’t only about controversy and page clicks but was about dumping something into public domain that black women would forever struggle with.
I can hear people in years to come saying something like, 'wasn’t there a study done some years back that proved that black women were unattractive/had more testosterone/were more masculine?' Read more on this next big urban myth that will circulate for years to come
Before I go into other 'deep' issues I want to write an 'ode' to something fascinating that I have watched happen for the last five years.
Very close to where I live, there is a nest of swans. Each year for the past five years I have watched the same couple come to the same place, to lay half a dozen or more eggs and over three months hatch them and take their little cygnets off down the river till they are strong and self sustaining. It has been awesome watching the little ones taken for their first swim and then watch their grey downy feather turn white, over the months as they follow their parents. It is a sight that has delighted me for these many years in fact as soon as it is spring I wait expectantly for their arrival. Sometime in early March I heard a perculiar 'bark' and I just new inside that they had come back to nest and yes indeed the next day they were there preparing the nest and soon they had laid five blue grey eggs and we are expecting hatchlings any day now.
I dont know how long I will be blessed with this marvelous display of commitment, something some human's cant even muster-who indeed knows how long they will continue to be fertile or their lifespan- but I love watching them take turns sitting on the eggs and love watching the male 'case' the area for danger and ward off dogs that sometimes wonder near! Two years ago I thought to write something but didnt get round to it, so this year I want to say, 'respect, respect' to the inspiring 'couple.'
Activists in the BWE Family are the real champions of black women
BWE blogs and blogs in the family of BWE are the only ones who really have a focus on championing and defending black women.A couple of years ago I got into a kind of debate/argument with one of the so called leading womanist activists and one of her 'phd' backers. I believe it was around the time of the dunbar village rape. I remember that that 'womanist' who was purported to be 'working in the trenches' was more worried about the police who would now be patrolling 'our communites' because of what happened and how this wasnt what we wanted indeed, we didnt want them coming for our sons and brothers and husbands!
I remember that when I raised the issue of Justice for the woman she and her PHD backer made the idea seem all wrong and sordid, indeed it was wrong and immoral for us and even the woman to want justice and to seek justice throught the channels provided by society! They started talking about 'mediation' and peacemaking in our communtites, in fact a couple of others who joined the argument started saying that the justice system would even oppress the woman and she wouldnt be 'guaranteed' any justice anyway, so why bother!
Christ in his highest heaven. I think that was the day I realized how useless a good portion of womanism and black feminsism had become to black women and their current reality.
Indeed black feminsist who have forgotten who should be their first concern! Instead they are more worried about ensuring that the only measure of protection that black woman have in this case i.e. the police, are prevented from coming into the situation. I know that Whataboutourdaughters also got flack for using hard language in her outrage at the heinous act perpetrated against the black woman, see because in all this their focus was never black woman. they were even more worried and spent lots of energy warning against the use of 'inflammatory langauage'.
Since black folks and many degreed bw, enjoy proving how educamated they are, their wonderful debating prowess and how many ways they can apply theories (drawn up by others mind you) and spin an impressive argument or take a certain theory to amazing lengths on the strength of their 'intellect', it is not suprising that something that is simple and straight forward as being the advocate for the black woman in the situation (I mean since you identify yourself as a black feminist and all that), suddenly becomes anything but! Indeed I sometimes go online and read a number of blogs by black women who are 'read' and all I can see them doing is trying to prove how 'amazingly' brillant and wonderfully 'au fait' they are with all sorts of progressive theories! Thats all it is about for them, displaying their skillz and their intellect whether black women are lying dead in the street or not. I know the 'academic' feminist was more worried about the langauage used by black women online who were understandably outraged over the whole issue, and how it would stigmatize black people and would encourage racists to start putting their oar in! See because black women have to be all concerened about all those other worries, and have to be careful about their language and use the correct words even as they are beaten into the ground.
I thought long and hard about that incident and it scared me that black women who we are all looking to to develop theories and analysis that would help the black woman plight (a deadly an insidious warfare going on against black women and from which many black women have no protection because they are naive and unaware) are the ones actually advicing black women to submit to more yokes, and chains.
Am I saying all black womanists/feminsist are this way? No but I think we are past the days of the vibrant kind of black feminsism that gave us intersectionality. The bulk of what is being produced online by many who declare themselves black feminsist/womanists is not inspiring, is chasing shadows and is even down right scary in that it encourages black women to remain in loosing situations and losing dynamics!
To be contd
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I'm not shocked that there are black women that behave like this, even those that are suppose to be supporting black women. Like you've said before halima, black women have tied their destiny so tightly to BM that they believe that helping BM will have positive effects for BW. They don't relaize that sometimes this just gives the men amunition to now do as they please even hurt BW because they are getting the undying support from black women who don't realize that the men will not share the wealth they gain from the battle with them but keep it to themselves.
ReplyDeleteSome people can behave like animals...they bite the hand that feeds them.
I wholly agree with you. Sadly BW activists still revert to the sister soldiering behavior of protecting BM and lashing out at WM (the system).
ReplyDeleteAfter all these decades of BM user behavior, BW still do not see how they are being played. Many BM have become millionaires off BW's money and support. They then take that money and support a non-BW. They tell BW and the world that because BW are....he was forced to be with a non-BW. The irony is that, if it were not for the BW's blind support, he would not have the money to support this woman in the first place. She would not want him without the BW's money.
BW give blind devotion and blind support to a BM who has just twisted his nose up at them, insulted and showed them utter contempt. BW can not seem to break away from the user-abuser behavior of BM (even with all that too strong strength and aggressive attitude). (eye roll)
My hope for BW is to take care of themselves and see the BM's problems are his problems. She can not save him. She has not done so so far, and it has only caused her to appear unattractive to the world. She appears angry, strident and sadly a little crazy. Crazy and silly because she does not see the nothing and the contempt she gets back from BM.
Re: mud sticks
ReplyDeleteI had never heard this phase before, but I had to think on the concept. Halima, you made some excellent points - it would be foolish for a prominent University to allow Santoshi to get away with not knowing proper research protocol - so something more sinister was afoot.
How coincidental, I recently read in one of my strategy books about the strategy of attacking another's reputation in order to bring their downfall and enlarge your fame. This book states this strategy is effective regardless of the attacked person's response. If they do nothing it appears true and if they challenge too much it makes it appear true as well. Either way it stated that the goal of this strategy was to cast doubt in the minds of others regarding your target's reputation. And a byproduct of it all is through the attacks you are garnering attention - thus enlarging your fame.
As you stated: "but was about dumping something into public domain that black women would forever struggle with.
I can hear people in years to come saying something like, 'wasn’t there a study done some years back that proved that black women were unattractive/had more testosterone/were more masculine?'"
All of the above especially coming at a time when more and more BW are thinking/discussing dating/marrying outside the group.
Re: womanists
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it is disturbing that some womanists are BM protectors as well. In that case what is the purpose of womanism? I was under the impression that womanists were critical thinkers. I mean you would have to be able to identify, articulate, and critique an experience/context and come up with solutions. I don't see how they can't see that BM protectionism would not be to their/our detriment.
Well....duh! I suppose I could come up with an eloquent and pithy response to your post Halima but let's keep it brief. The intelligentsia crew is just as bad as the (c)rap music rap(e) culture promoters. They're all flip sides of the same coin.
ReplyDeleteI have been reading your blog and other BWE blogs for a while now and noted how you all explained the prevailing concept of black= men and how that has led to the devaluation of black women. This latest assault via Psychology today has further proved that point.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if many were aware that the original post was titled "Why black women are less physically attractive than other women" and later modified with the addition of "but black men are more attractive than other men".
I believe this Nazi "scientist" altered the original title in a pathetic attempt to quell the accusations of racism that were directed at him. He clearly believed that since black women were the only ones he deemed unattractive then he couldn't possibly be a racist.
However, it is quite obvious that his posting was a very deliberate attempt to assail black women. I read some of the comments on the internet and many wondered what his motive was for writing up such garbage. They didn't want to believe the obvious.... that HATE is the only reason and nothing else. That's right, HATE is the reason. If you look up his profile, you may not be surprise to learn that this joker has quite a history of hate mongering often cloaked as academic research.
Of course, the issue here isn't that a vile male being that most of us wouldn't look at twice if he was the only male thing left on planet earth doesn't find black women attractive. It is the fact that he purposefully and methodically aimed to debilitate black women's sense of self in an attempt to justify his existence and also boost his own social status.
Anyway, the one good thing that has come out of this is that it has forced me to finally take action towards helping young unsuspecting black girls. I have signed up to mentor at risk young girls. I fully intend to instill in them the ideas espoused in BWE blogs like this one, the urgent need for them to be discerning (critical thinking) and to choose carefully their associates.
Part 1:
ReplyDeleteOkay, “race” as it is described- hair, features, skin color is insignificant in the evolutionary schema. But perhaps in culture it is, which in turn would prompt cultural values and social sculpting on opinions of what is “right” and “wrong” of a woman or- beautiful.
In reality a woman, any woman represents (and presents) the features of the man that she comes from. The skin, the hair, the features and proof of her ability to produce her presentations (which are her female parts). It is not credible that an African man would be considered attractive while an African woman would be considered unattractive, when she is presenting (physically) what she is able to produce-the African man! That is- it is not credible evolutionally, but only socially. Which is proof of social manipulation (teaching and training and pressuring) to accept certain norms.
If Kanazawa, as an example, was to grow his hair very long (which he is well able to do) and put some lipstick on, he would likely look like his mother, or someone else’s.( continued)
Part 2:
ReplyDeleteThat’s because the differences between male and female don’t have to do with facial features. Men and women both inherit features from their mother and father. While those that took the poll may believe that African woman were less attractive, their belief or understanding came from social sculpting.
Here is another perspective, one that could’ve been instilled given political power (and the fear of losing it):
“Manly includes” the thin hard looking lips, pointy very long nose, white and hairy skin.
“Womanly includes” cures as many that can be put together in one frame-including curly hair, full lips, breast, and behinds. Smooth (hairless) brown skin. Again in reality these features are found on male and females. These are presentations of possible reproduction. (continued)
Part: 3
ReplyDeleteAnd what about African’s producing more testosterone. The benefits of testosterone for women need to be looked into, instead of presenting that information as if any amount less of testosterone is better (for women) or more feminine. Testosterone is being studied for improving sex drive (which is very crucial in an evolutionally context) decreasing depression (just look at this epidemic in some women!) as well as osteoporoses-can’t push out a baby if you break a hip. Science always starts with theory. Kanazawa’s was faulty from the beginning. I guess my point is that these people’s opinion are socially induced and not evolutionary-which means those opinions will likely change.
Hi Anon,
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing some good points.
I will say re: black women and higher testosterone - I don't believe it for one bit. I think its more propaganda/junk science bs designed to un-woman BW.
Halima, I share your lament. I am very disappointed that Psychology today would risk its reputation printing this garbage. But obviously that wasn't a consideration since they printed it. As a medical scientist I am well aware of the scientific method and I am sure it applies to the social sciences. But alas THIS was not science but it now has power...it was printed . The editors should do a retraction. But something larger and more insidious is at work here and we all know it. It was published as an incendiary forgone conclusion...as if to say "We all knew this from the beginning and here is some flimsy...subjective crap to prove it. Long live white supremacy!" Why not...many black men agree!! I am pushing for a retraction and apology from the magazine...anyone with me?!
ReplyDeleteJacque
Like you've said before halima, black women have tied their destiny so tightly to BM that they believe that helping BM will have positive effects for BW.
ReplyDeleteThat's right and it is going to be survival of the fittest for black women in the future. These black women who have a black man thing that they have no problems. Um hum. Part of a black woman being able to thrive in years to come is knowing that she cannot depend on black men. We have been bamboozeled for all of these years. Brothers are indifferent. They dont care about this even if they have little brown daughters. The fact that the elite of black men marrying anything is non-black sends out a huge message.
The smart, progressive sisters will be okay.
Also, I agree with Halima but I also think that it would take one good heated argument between a white girl and a black girl for this study to be brought up. Whew! times are not good for black women. I think that it will get to the point where someone will speak up for black women cause the black women with voices are not doing it. It might end up being a white woman or man ...I dont know stranger things have happened.
We are in a bad situation and they are just trying to put the nails in the coffin.....
To Jacque:
ReplyDeleteWhat's the address? Yes, we must demand a retraction or this type of crap will continue. And, where is the NAACP? or at least the NAACP women? You silly #itches need to stand up more for bw rather than most bm who have no issue with moving on and leaving your @$$ in the dust.
lois
This past Friday my co-worker went to the local jail to discuss some type of conseling services for the men. As she says, "Oh, what ashame all of these young bm that are incarcerated."
ReplyDeleteOf course, I had to open my mouth and say, "OK, what about all of those bw who are also incarcerated?"
She claims they will do something for the women. WTF? This other bw kills me. She is usually pro bm before being pro bw.
I had to remind her that although I do not have any daughters; we still should put bw issues before bm. IMO, bm already have organizations fights for their rights. Bw are getting lost in the system.
lois
To Jacque:
ReplyDeleteWhat's the address? Yes, we must demand a retraction or this type of crap will continue. And, where is the NAACP? or at least the NAACP women? You silly women need to stand up more for bw rather than most bm who have no issue with moving on and leaving your @$$ in the dust.
lois
I agree with you pat that it will be survival of the fitest. Those black women that married black men are going to pass on this notion that its very easy to get a black husband and have the fairytale black family. Mom would say " Look at me ...I found your dad".
ReplyDeleteSome of these girls will find themselves in a very tight spot when they begin to realize after a couple of years on the dating seen, the men are not responding. It would play out like the part in the movie something new where Kenya grows up in a perfect black home with too high acheiving black parents was embarassed to introduce her white boyfriend to them.
I remember another similar situation that was on either CNN or NBC when they were talking about single black women. One black women on the show was having a problem with the idea of dating out because she felt that her husband would not be, as she described, " well built, strong black man" like her father.This lady was already well into her 30's.
Black women need to equip their daughters and the women now need to understand that what worked for your mother in the 60's and 70's isn't going to work in 2011.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteWhere is the NAACP? Busy spending money and organizing to bury some word, then awarding artists that use that buried word like I use water. We know no one will speak on this because it has no direct affect on black men.
Oh WOW! I remember that interaction with the "brown feminists" it was actually heart breaking at the time because I couldn't understand how women would want to protect each other from unimaginable horror.
ReplyDeleteThat interaction was actually quite liberating. I probably would have tried to moderate my voice to attempt to ally with the Feminist Industrial COmplex and the Feminist Lexicon Police, but I was so indignant that I washed my hands of them completely. I was mocked and ridiculed and the inference was that I was less intelligent than they were. I was too indignant to care. Now they've slunk off into the abyss of burnt out bloggers after they turned on each other and I'm still here. And yes, I still think that Dunbar Village should be razed to the ground so that nothing will grow there.
We can talk about reconciliation once there is justice and some type of contrition. If you recall, the relatives of the defendants at the Dunbar Village trial laughed at the victim's testimony. We're not dealing with "rational" people here.
I'll stick with my "provincial" populism and my colloquialisms thank you very much.
Wow it feels like that happened a long time ago, but it was only about 4 years ago.
A couple of years ago I got into a kind of debate/argument with one of the so called leading womanist activists and one of her 'phd' backers. I believe it was around the time of the dunbar village rape. I remember that that 'womanist' who was purported to be 'working in the trenches' was more worried about the police who would now be patrolling 'our communites' because of what happened and how this wasnt what we wanted indeed, we didnt want them coming for our sons and brothers and husbands!
ReplyDelete___________________________________
But, of course, just because someone calls herself a "womanist" or a "feminist" doesn't mean that is what she is. Just as these women are tying themselves in knots to manipulate words and language to benefit the "community" (i.e., black men) they are manipulating the label "womanist" in order to exploit its actual meaning to lend weight to their own wholly illegitimate agendas. It's the same way that they undoubtedly would label themselves "pro-black," when they are actually "pro-black man." They have no interest in black women, black children, or the black family; indeed, they are willing to throw us all under the bus if it will further free the black man to exploit these groups for his own discrete interests.
By the way, the email link for the CEO of Psychology Today, Jo Colman is below:
http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/email_prof.php?profid=34087
Feel free to let him know what you think of the material he sees fit to publish.
>>was about dumping something into public domain that black women would forever struggle with....
ReplyDeleteThat's what I love about your blogging, you hit the bullseye. The internet(s) are forever, and that creep wanted to contribute long lasting toxic waste to the landfill where our public image is decomposing. I think he's surprised that there's a cleanup crew that caught him in the act. We're not a dumping ground anymore.
And I'm all for discrediting and bankrupting Psycho Today.
Halima, you make a great point about folks using black women as a hammer to satisfy arcane and esoteric theories to sound 'hip' while yielding no benefits. I've tried to read some sites, but I wondered if I was wrong for finding their point of view offensive, limited, and rather wounding as well.
Apparently, focusing on black women's issues wasn't sufficient enough, because other causes would always rank higher.
Now I have to be ashamed to say that I am going to Birkbeck right now, and it is one of the University of London schools! LOL And not that long ago I wanted to go to LSE becasue it had the great reputation in the UK of being up there with Oxford and Cambridge Universities.
ReplyDeleteWell this bites....But yeah that Satoshi Kanazawa is east Asian and does not work for us or for our benefit so it doesn't surprise me when he comes out with his retro eugenics babblings at all. I swear to you that I have been one of the last people in the world to even know anything about this at all! I have been studying so hard for my exams and I haven't picked up not one newspaper or even turned on the TV at all, not even for the news unfortunately. I am so out of the loop it's unbelieveable.
Another way to look at all of this is that all of this might end up backfiring---all of this negative attention to black women. I can assure you that a lot of black women... or should I say that some black women are going to improve themselves physically (exercise) and in other ways (financially) because we have been dogged out so bad.
ReplyDeleteRight now white women are actually running circles around black women when it ocmes to men. It is actually pitiful. Kim Kardashian just got engaged to a guy who looks white but his father is black. He bought her a million dollar engagement ring! Not hating on her because she is doing what she is supposed to do. I aint mad at her. But black women need to look at her and see what she did to get what she got. It is just not going to happen with black men because they only make white women rich. When you see black men with money married to black women, he met her years before. He dated her when he was poor.
Although Kim's family is rich, she uses what she got to get what she wants. Her sister Klhoe is also married to a rich black athlete. We all know that her sister would not have been able to marry a rich white athlete and have him worshipping her like Lamar does.
They know their value with black men and I say good for them...
To Pat:
ReplyDeleteToday, one of those entertainment shows claims kim k. was wearing that same ring when she was with another baller at least 2 years ago. They think she bought the ring and I can believe that. kim k. is NOT as smart as an Elizabeth Tayler, Liz always got the ring first then she married her rich husband.
l.
I sent emails to various LSE public relations staff members and the universities' student staff members. All in all I said he should be fired!
ReplyDeletel.
To Pat:
ReplyDeleteI am not going to sell a sex tape just to get myself attention.
l.
Up-date...I just received this notice.
ReplyDeleteYour email to Jo Colman CEO has been sent. (psychology today)
-------------
I received thus far 3 out of the office replies; therefore, my other messages must have been received.
1. R.Hoggard@lse.ac.uk
2. D.O'Connor@lse.ac.uk
3. J.Winterstein@lse.ac.uk
I did my little part.How about you?
lois
Right now white women are actually running circles around black women when it ocmes to men.
ReplyDelete**
Was that comment really necessary? Why is it that a black woman can't go ANYWHERE without being told that she's less than somehow?? Also I'm glad that you know every. single. detail about that mud shark kim kardashian (bw are really obessed with her... it's really disturbing) but could you please coo(n) over her engagment and seemingly "perfect life" with other black mammies at blackvoices, BET.com, or Mediatakeout? Because most bw who read this blog aren't intetested in details about black males current or former white gfs/fiances/wives, they read this blog because they're interested in trying to improve their individual and collective situation.
To anonymous I would love to respond to your "coon" ocmment but I am too much of a lady and it probably would not be shown. I am sure that you look much more like a "coon" than I do but that is neither here nor there.
ReplyDeleteI dont have to obsess over Kim Kardashian cause I actually am attractive, in shape and dont need tutorials on how to attract white men. My point was that black women need to take a cue from white women like Kim Kardashian and KNOW that they DESERVE it all. That is what I meant. I dont have to get up in arms about the ugly comments cause I am fine, black woman. It does not affect my self esteem but what does bother me is being out on a date and seeing other beautiful black women alone on a Saturday night constantly.