Monday, July 27, 2009

Give it up or Embrace the fruits thereof...(updates in green!)


"I hate white men so much,
I'd sign up to be used and abused by black men If it will help them in their quest to rise above white men"


Do you know how farmers in indonesia catch monkeys ?

They build little wooden cages and put peanuts inside and set them down in the middle of the forest where monkeys are known to inhabit.

The farmers are so sure of the effectiveness of their plan, that they then return home for the night. Anyway, no sooner have they left the vicinity that monkeys descend from the trees where they have been hidding, to investigate the cages. They are chattering excitedly and when they see the peanuts, they are even more excited. Each monkey makes for the cages containing the peanut. The monkeys have to hold their hands up and straight (in the manner you would hold out your hand for a handshake) to fit into the cage spaces. They pick up the nuts easily enough but then comes the snag. They try to pull out their 'bunched round the peanut' hand and it is not happening. Their bunched fists are bigger than the cage spaces. They keep trying to force their hands back out but to no avail.

As soon as they flatten their fists and thus let go of the peanuts, they can extract their hands from the cage with ease. But they want the peanuts, they refuse to let go of it, so they keep trying to pull out the peanuts contained within the bunched fist.

So bent on having the peanuts are these monkeys, that the farmers still find them at the task of trying to get their bunched hands out of the cage the next day. They haul as many as they can off to sell or for captivity.




Attention: Attention: Young black woman? Looking to talk about empowernment? See



A few days ago I highlighted in a discussion that black women have a deep resentment towards white men, which they refuse to give up. A commentor also gave an example of an incident were a black woman threatened to 'cut up' a white man who brushed past her. That incident reminded me of a similar experince I had, when I got unto a bus to discover a black woman and white man having this most hate filled exchange. You could feel the deep well of hatred there, and that it wasnt just whatever had just transpired that was the issue here. I agree with Felicia and have indeed written in my book (see below) that black women blame white men for the failure of black men and the mess of the community and this is one of the key causes of this deep well of hatred and anger against white men. And it is so easy to trigger these feelings and get black women going in this hatred. I see black men press the button to charge up hate in black women so frequently. In fact yesterday I was at a meeting and a black man started going on about 'the man,' immediately black women in the audience started giving the 'amen', 'thats right,' and got all side tracked in their white folks blame session. The truth was that this man had been under pressure to account for something and he immediately wiggled out by redirecting the focus.

Black women will never win if people can wind up their emotions at will and when they can get them side tracked so easily. Folks understand black women's psychology well and it is all down to the fact that we have refused to be sensible and reasonable and to value comonsense and wisdom. That's it simply, we are so predictable in our hangup and hates. And even if white man do not know whats up, they still sense the deep resentment festering.

But not just that black women have a hatred of white men, they do not want this anger resolved. They are sworn to an eternal feud with white men. Even if this hatred is costing them greatly, they cling to it and wont give it up. In fact there is a part of their identity that is built on it and they believe that they would be lost without this 'centering' hatred of white men. Yep what is a black woman without this hate and anger at white men to ruminate on!

See everyone else have learnt or is learning to get along, even white men and black men. Visit London and you will see how many black men and white men go out to the pubs and are in deep freindships. Even criminal gangs are known to be integrated. I was shocked to open a paper one day with an article stating that gangs had learnt their way around the police by using their stereotypes against them ie white man in the getaway car etc.

So indeed while everyone has managed to or is making great strides in being sensible about others so they can get along and function effectively in a multicultural environment, black women have instead chained themselves to railings of their bitterness and anger particularly at white men.

Thats often why bw are going round and round in circles over their dating options. Sometime some of us think we are talking to black women who we can help, what we dont recognize is that it is this hate that is in the way of them being free to consider other men (yes other non-black men apart from white get entangled in this hate). Indeed and more importantly these women are struggling because the issue is about them giving up their dearly beloved need to retain this right to hate white men. Anyone with half a brain can see that interracial dating is the way out for loads of black women, so why is this option skirted and avoided or down played (indeed whole conferences are held where black women never even talk about this option staring them in the face). In truth it is the hatred of white men holding black women hostage. plain and simple!

And dont be fooled with the protestations of 'I just want to honor my race and I love my brothas etc', very few black women are motivated by just this sentiment. This overwhelming 'love' of all things black is twined up with bitterness and hatred for white males. No matter how they try to slice it, this is about black women saying, 'The White man has done black people wrong, he must remain my eternal foe.' 'I will never let go of my anger, I will stew in my bitterness and I will never do anything that could resolve it, and if it costs me my chance at happiness, companionship, children, so be it!'

continued....

After years of churning on these feelings, a black woman can become attached to it and fearful of loosing her hate because she believes that it undergirds her committment to her race. 'White male focussed hate', now stands on a sacred altar which can never be taken down, no matter how hard it makes life's journey.



My advice to black women is, 'LET IT GO'.

Pour away the hate!


You are not bound nor obliged to continue ancient feuds and to sacrifice your life for them. Give it up, it is not worth your limited and restricted life. You might think this, but no one requires you to hold the torch for the race in this way. I know some of you think, 'Some of us must keep alive this hate for white men, our race requires it'.

We have let our lives be poisoned and restricted unncessarily. Yes I am firmly convinced that black men dont even have as much hate and resentment towards white men as we do, which is probably not suprising given that black women always get to carry the heavier load and this case encouraged to continue to carry the most toxic load that will poison them and sabotage their lives!

If you must pray, fast or go for counselling or perform a 'pouring away' ritual, to let go of white male hate, then do so, so you can move forward with your life and stop being trapped in negative feelings.

Let it go.


But for others who do not feel they can let go of these feelings and that it is important to despise white men as a symbolic gesture for the race, then I want you to embrace it, feel comfortable with it and with the fruits it will yield. Stop running back and forth and being of double mind. Dont be all over the place, ie one day on IR blogs and then the other, at websites that encourage these hateful feelings. Be grounded and settled in your decision to continue in your negative perspective.

I am saying this because a number of you are vacillating; today one position, tomorrow another. Today 'maybe interracial dating', tomorrow, 'maybe not'. And you have yo yoed like this for years, its not just a thing of a few months. Come to the understanding that it is your need to hang on to your negative emotions against white men that is causing you to be unsettled, and then, just embrace your resentment of white men and be done with it.

Tell yourself 'I want to retain this anger, it is useful to me to have it and it is very essential for my world view'. Make peace with this position and commit to whatever it brings, it will be a much healthier approach than bouncing all over the place.
.....................................................................................



'Mommy of my Kids'


I just wanted to point out something that struck me recently folks.

Did you notice that when Michael Jackson wanted to beget offspring, in all the cases where this was highly possible, he choose to put himself in with white women (Lisa-Marie, Debbie Rowe and the other unknown woman who is more than likely to have been white).

But when MJ suddenly needs a Mammy, to do the hard bit of raising, the choice became all to clear. Indeed look at the first and second, in fact only choices he made on that matter.


'Mammy of my Kids'


Now some folks will be saying, 'Its just coincidence etc etc.' Sure it is.

Not once, twice but thrice did MJ choose a white women to bear his kids or potentially do so as in the case of Lisa-Marie but not once but twice did MJ nominate black women to be the carers (Katherine Jackson and Diana Ross) now that he has passed. If you have also kept an eye out for these things, you will notice that Michael Jackson consistently choose black nannies for his children (who were very aggressive in their roles of protecting them from outsiders).

Now Black women lend me your ears cause I wanna tell you something:

You need to be very careful of black men because many are assigning you your roles and status based on the 'Handbook of White Supremacy'.



Yes I can agree that it might not even be a conscious thought in their minds, but this makes it all the more dangerous; uncritical black men who mimic and model racist thinking and racist practices.

Do not even bother to try to open their eyes to the pattern of their unconscious thinking or 'educate' them, as I heard someone took it upon themselves to do with the man who put together the 'light skin only' party. Any black man who has to be told, informed or made aware of his own racist actions, is already lost.

Let the drift wood float away!



Get clued up about interracial dating, read the Interracial Dating E-Book

Send your questions to relationshipadvice@dateawhiteguybook.com (I will try my best to give a reply/answer)

46 comments:

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Halima:

I agree with Felicia and have indeed written in my book (see below) that black women blame white men for the failure of black men and the mess of the community and this is one of the key causes of this deep well of hatred and anger against white men. And it is so easy to trigger these feelings and get black women going in this hatred. I see black men press the button to charge up hate in black women so frequently.

My reply:

And when the men do this, they don't have to act on any anger or resentment they are feeling--the women do it for them. They then get to present themselves as reasonable and level-headed. Moreover, when the men do this, they present themselves as vulnerable victims in need of rescue by the strong women who protect them. As a result, when women are victims, the men are not there to help them, because the women are strong enough to fight their battles and the men's battles too!

Aphrodite said...

Greeting Halima


I had no idea that there were BW who absolutely hated WM. I knew that there were many BW who were leery/wary of WM due to unfamiliarity, upbringing etc and some BW who have said some silly or ignorant things, but outright hatred...wow.

Lovebug said...

Thank you for your post Halima, it was very insightful.

I feel sorry for black women or anyone else who thinks and acts this way. They don't know that they are only hurting themselves and not the object of their hate. I have a favorite bible verse that I like to quote: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)

Furthermore, I don't get this anger at white men for the failures of black men. It is not the white man's job to look out for the black man. Men are not supposed to look out for other men, they are supposed to look out for their women and children. Don't get me wrong, I abhor racism and consider it to be downright ridiculous. But one has to consider the fact that men by nature are competitive; so it does not surprise me if some white men aren't eager to share their position of privilege in society with black men.

Anonymous said...

First you say that Black women's hatred of White men is motivated by their belief that it is the White man who is responisble for the failures of Black men.

Then you say that Black women's hatred of White men is NOT about how the White man is keeping the Black man down.

Please make up your mind.

Anyone with half a brain can see that Black women's hatred fo White men IS about solidarity with Black men. Stop trying to blame Black women for everything!

Khadija said...

Halima,

I was originally skeptical of this "BW hate WM" theory. Mostly because Black folks around the globe are generally NOT very talented, steadfast or consistent in hating non-Blacks. We generally reserve that sort of enduring hatred for ourselves and other Blacks.

But the more I think about it, I see that you're correct about this in terms of AA women. We won't hate anybody, including non-Blacks, for their trespasses against us, but we will hate on behalf of BM!

Just like we do so many other things on behalf of BM.

Hmmm...I'll reflect on this some more. Thanks for another thought-provoking essay.

Peace, blessings and solidarity.

Anonymous said...

Anyone with half a brain can see that Black women's hatred fo White men IS about solidarity with Black men. Stop trying to blame Black women for everything!

Anyone with half a brain can see that Black men want to BE WM. Because they associate WM and whiteness with POWER. And they associate BW and blackness with WEAKNESS. So, since they can't be WM, they at least can be with the WM's mother (WW) which in their twisted minds is the next best thing.

These STUPID BW aren't in "solidarity" with ANYONE.

These SAME BM who these STUPID BW mistakingly believe they're in "solidarity" with will worship and marry a white PROSTITUTE over a black Virgin in a heartbeat.

Again, your average BM's ONLY "solidarity" is with himself and white supremacy.

Aphrodite said...

"Not once, twice but thrice did MJ choose a white women to bear his kids or potentially do so as in the case of Lisa-Marie but not once but twice did MJ nominate black women to be the carers (Katherine Jackson and Diana Ross) now that he has passed. If you have also kept an eye out for these things, you will notice that Michael Jackson consistently choose black nannies for his children (who were very aggressive in their roles of protecting them from outsiders).

Now Black women lend me your ears cause I wanna tell you something:
You need to be very careful of black men because many are assigning you your roles and status based on the 'Handbook of White Supremacy'."




I am kinda of speechless at this.

Now that I think about it I have had one brush with similar. There was a BM I went to grammar school with who contacted me while I was in undergrad. He served in the army and had been stationed in Germany where he had met a German woman and they had a child together. The child was a toddler and I was shocked - just at the fact that he had a child- bc I thought that was so young- at the time.

But he said to me that he wanted to marry a BW bc he wanted his child to know and have pride in Black Culture.


Your quote above really puts that into a context.

Aimee said...

Anonymous said...

Anyone with half a brain can see that Black women's hatred fo White men IS about solidarity with Black men. Stop trying to blame Black women for everything!
___________________________________

And that would be precisely the problem, isn't it? Why should we be investing the time, energy and passion it takes to HATE anyone; as well as bearing the burden of being alienated and estranged from a large segment of American society in "solidarity" with BM, not even on our own behalf or in our own interest--especially when these same BM bear no such burden in "solidarity" with us, or even with each other?

And as PVW points out, I have seen these same BM who get with a group of black people and act a straight militant fool, winding the BW up into a frothing rage, get with a group of white people and skin and grin like Stepin Fetchit, especially if you throw a blonde into the mix. We DO have to bear the blame for falling for that manipulation time and time again.

I can't speak for Halima, but I know I definitely blame those sisters who continue to fall for the okey-doke. This mess needs to stop. I was listening to the radio on the way into work this morning, and what do I hear? Esther Ama, a brilliant black brit journalist, talking to two BW bloggers about the Skip Gates incident. Hey--fair enough--it's in the news, the president commented on it, yadda yadda. Their analysis? This happens to brothas everyday; why don't we discuss all those anonymous brothas who go through this in the hood, brothas, brothas, brothas . . .

Oh, they were in a high dudgeon about the suffering of brothas. I am NOT suggesting that such suffering doesn't occur or isn't real or that they should not have made the point they did. I am only noting that these three black women had a half-hour forum to discuss issues of importance to them on a radio program reaching the entire NYC metropolitan area, and they chose to focus solely on BM in the hood being hassled by police--indeed, they were irritated that the focus had been broadened to include upper-class BM in college towns--forget about anybody else (like, say, BW!) They did not focus on any issues facing BW generally, or them in particular. This forum could easily been given to three BM, for all the difference it made in the issues they raised and the insights they brought to the table.

This is commonplace on those rare occasions that BW are present and accounted for in places where we have an opportunity to build bridges and communicate our humanity, grace and beauty as women to the world at large. Instead, we remain shrouded in the BM-Bodyguard role. We need to reject that wholeheartedly, and focus on ourselves. In a way, the WM anger, and the suspcion and distrust of non-BM that goes along with it, seems almost easy--all we have to do is STOP FIGHTING BM'S BATTLES for them, and worry about ourselves.

lormarie said...

Esther Ama, a brilliant black brit journalist, talking to two BW bloggers about the Skip Gates incident. Hey--fair enough--it's in the news, the president commented on it, yadda yadda. Their analysis? This happens to brothas everyday; why don't we discuss all those anonymous brothas who go through this in the hood, brothas, brothas, brothas . . .-Aimee

I was listening to the same program this morning. The only answer is that women who champion empowerment for black women speak out. "Black race women" have had the floor for way too long.

Felicia said...

Aimee, I cosign everything you've just said.

These deluded BW can continue to scapegoat WM if they want, but it's a wasted effort. Because all of their venom is rolling right off the backs of WM.

And poisoning THEM in the process. These BW are making pariahs of themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat

"The scapegoat was a goat that was driven off into the wilderness as part of the ceremonies of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, in Judaism during the times of the Temple in Jerusalem. The rite is described in Leviticus 16.
Since this goat, carrying the sins of the people placed on it, is sent away to perish [1], the word "scapegoat" has come to mean a person, often innocent, who is blamed and punished for the sins, crimes, or sufferings of others, generally as a way of distracting attention from the real causes."


The only ones being driven off into the wilderness are these shemale BM-Bodyguard type BW.

And it's a SELF-inflicted punishment.

These angry, bitter, and foaming at the mouth BW are really angry at BM but since the "bc" doesn't provide BW with any healthy source of release of this anger - and it's NEVER allowed to be directed towards it's source - it's MISDIRECTED towards WM.

The psychological term is Transference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference

"Transference is a phenomenon in psychoanalysis characterized by unconscious redirection of feelings for one person to another."

Anger at BM (which cannot be outwardly expressed without consequences/blowback in the "bc" ) directed towards WM.

A few pats on the head/Scooby Snacks/nuts (that was a PERFECT analogy that Halima gave with the Indonesian monkey's) is the only "reward" these angry BW can ever expect to receive from the FOOLISHNESS they're engaged in.

Pitiful...

These poor souls are also psychotically BM identified. So much so that they fail to realize that they care more for BM then BM even care for themselves.

These are DIE hard mammy mules who don't even care about the concept of reciprocation.

They believe it's their GOD ordained ROLE as a BW to be the caretaker and defender of BM. To speak and fight on their behalf.SMH

Whether BM reciprocate the favor or not is of no consequence to these types.

These BW are LOST and will continue to reap what they've sown.

BW interested in life - and all of the wonderful things associated with it - must DISTANCE themselves from these angry BW.

STAND OUT FROM THE CROWD. Not allow these angry hateful BW to TAINT their image.

Celeste said...

Hello Halima,

Much thanks for your post. It is right on time. For a quite a while now I too have been noticing that some AA men want to treat AA women like mammies. They are just like their "massas" the white man, they are quick to take on the "ways of their oppressor." (their bad ways, not the good ones) Well, I say since they want to be so much like the wm they purport to hate (which they really don't, I agree it is more of a competition,they reserve their real hate for black women) I say bw might as well marry a real wm, rather than a powerless imitation of one. If I were young and single now I would definitely open up my options. But I'm from the Civil Rights generation when there was still a goodly supply of responsible bm and I'm married to one. However, I'm passing on what I'm learning from you, Halima, and other empowerment bloggers to my teen granddaughter and her friends. Already, she and her friends are beginning to despair over the dbr traits and colorism they see in most young black boys their age. And I agree, bw should step back and let bm fight their own battles for a change. It just might help them, and it would definitely help bw.

Power to the bw!
Celeste

ActsofFaithBlog said...

Yeah so many of us are the mule, gravedigger, brood mare AND bodyguard for BM. Wow. I wasn't sure about the extent of the WM hatred either but it definitely applies to those AA women who are dysfunctionally black male identified. It really is sexism and putting your entire value into lifting other men who aren't even worthy. That is self-hate personified. And if they're doing it because they think these AA men ae going tob e there for them they can FORGET it!

CW said...

The Michael Jackson situation is profound...May he rest in peace, but quite obviously there are some damaged dynamics in play here...Jackson's mother is very elderly...She may be spry, but it is not within her capability to run after three young kids...Debbie Rowe (and/or whoever else) got the monetary benefits of having the children...Now the Jackson women are burdened (Anyone noticing a trend for BW assignment?)the most difficult task ahead...

Derailment Alert:

Dissenters, please don't begin writing in with the violin cr@p about how children are Blessings and not burdens...Let's face fact: The job of child-rearing is even challenging to a twenty-something...For an 80+ woman...YES...a burden...

"Not once, twice but thrice did MJ choose a white women to bear his kids or potentially do so as in the case of Lisa-Marie but not once but twice did MJ nominate black women to be the carers (Katherine Jackson and Diana Ross) now that he has passed. If you have also kept an eye out for these things, you will notice that Michael Jackson consistently choose black nannies for his children (who were very aggressive in their roles of protecting them from outsiders)."

Jess said...

"black women blame white men for the failure of black men and the mess of the community and this is one of the key causes of this deep well of hatred and anger against white men."
-Actually this is why I think that this blame bw for all of bms' problems mentality that's going on on Youtube could benefit bw/wm relationships. I HOPE it helps bw see how WRONG the blame game is and how unfair and hurtfull it is.bm men should be held accountable for their own f*ckUps!

jess said...

"We won't hate anybody, including non-Blacks, for their trespasses against us, but we will hate on behalf of BM!

Just like we do so many other things on behalf of BM."
-Doesn't this make bw look kind of stupid?

Anonymous said...

Of course, of this is true, why would any non bm want to get involved with a black woman? If the majority are down to hate the white man for life, isn't it easier if your a white male to just bypass bw all together? After all, there are plenty of fish in the sea.

ak said...

Felicia:

These angry, bitter, and foaming at the mouth BW are really angry at BM but since the "bc" doesn't provide BW with any healthy source of release of this anger - and it's NEVER allowed to be directed towards it's source - it's MISDIRECTED towards WM.


Anonymous: Anyone with half a brain can see that Black men want to BE WM. Because they associate WM and whiteness with POWER. And they associate BW and blackness with WEAKNESS. So, since they can't be WM, they at least can be with the WM's mother (WW) which in their twisted minds is the next best thing.

And as PVW points out, I have seen these same BM who get with a group of black people and act a straight militant fool, winding the BW up into a frothing rage, get with a group of white people and skin and grin like Stepin Fetchit, especially if you throw a blonde into the mix. We DO have to bear the blame for falling for that manipulation time and time again.



Oh my days! Truer words have never been spoken!

ak said...

Celeste I agree with your comment 100%

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Halima, your discussion of Michael Jackson leaving his children in the care of black women when their birth mothers were white is a fascinating analysis. The women, like you said, never had anything to do with raising them, but Debbie Rowe, like you said, got a heck of a lot of money just to give birth!

What is so striking about all of this is that if black men like Jackson really wanted black women to be caretakers of their children and socialize them, they would have married black women to start off with, as most black men do.

But those like Jackson wanted the privileges of whiteness through having relationships with white women and they wanted that for their children.

As for the other types, like the one Aphrodite described, they sound like the type of black men who say to black women, I am just fooling around with her, I really want to be with a black woman. It is as though they never imagined that they would have children by these women????

But now that the women are behind them, they want "to come home" and have their children be raised by the mammies they could not be bothered with dating before, or whom they put aside on hold while they were fooling around, the black women who are so eager "to welcome a brotha back," as proof that she has beaten Becky. But has she, or is she just taking Becky's leavings?

And yet, when these men break up with Becky and leave her with their children, what can happen sometimes is that the children identify so much with their non-black mothers that they want to have nothing to do with blackness or black people.

This can happen too, if they stay with the mothers of their children and raise them to be color struck and rejecting of blackness...

Lisa A. said...

Honestly, I was raised in a household where I was taught not to associate with whites and not to befriend them on any level. I admit I'm still stuck in my ways and I have to say I REALLY DON'T like white men, but HATE them, no. I didn't read the whole article but my impression is black men are turning black women against white men for their own personal gain and because they want to see us fail in terms of relations to other races of men so they can keep us down. Let me be the first to say that black men needn't do that, because by what white men have and continue to do to black people in this country, it's more than enough to draw contempt on. I'm all for interracial dating, but I'd pick a non-black man of color (hispanic, asian, middle eastern) over a white man any day. I mean, I REALLY don't like white men at all, they're not attractive to me and their attitudes, racism and false sense of entitlement is truly disgusting.

Now about black men, and why I don't necessarily want to bother with them anymore either:
I agree that black men use the race card to pull sympathy from us and it works. Black men can be as deceptive as white ones. The truth is, and after years of observation, I can say this, is that black men want to be white men. They envy the white man's power in this society and in this world. They TRY (and fail) to get close to it by having what the white man has (his cars, his edumacation, his high paying job, living in his all-white neighborhood and marrying his white woman). With a black woman they feel a sense of exclusion from the power of white society and they feel that loving us and standing up for us is not only unnecessary, but a fatal weakness. I hate to say this, but when it comes to black men/white men, it's like picking the lesser of two evils. But......in my eyes, their "evilness" is just about equal.

energize said...

Wow...Halima that is such an interesting observation. I noticed Michael was surrounded by bw to nurse, cook and take care of him and children, but he chose the whitest of white women to marry and PAY to birth kids. When I am positve a bw would have done it for FREE. Didn't quite put it together until I read your essay.

Anonymous said...

Check out this link:

http://nerdsevolving.blogspot.com/2009/04/alert-for-black-women-and-our-allies.html

Anonymous said...

"I hate to say this, but when it comes to black men/white men, its like picking the lesser of two evils. But......in my eyes, their "evilness" is just about equal."


BW who wish to be treated as the individuals they are, must be willing to treat white men and others as the individuals they are.

Unfortunately, many black females grew up in dishonest homes that taught them to distrust outsiders when it was the insiders (DBRBM) all along who they should have been taught to fear.

Black females expecting to be thought of as individuals, yet who are not willing to treat others as the individuals they are, should continue to receive exactly what the majority of black females are getting these days on the relationship front.

Which is nothing.

Racism is the act of lumping all people regardless of their individuality in the same bag.

Attributing behaviors and mindsets to whole populations simply because of appearance.

I don't hate to say that racists, including black female racists, don't deserve happy endings.

They're not deserving of them.

Love and hate can't coexist at the same time.

As long as black females continue to hold on to their hatred and racism, they will continue to stay in their self-created pits.

Intelligent black females need to disregard the opinions/viewpoints of purported black women on the internet (who could very well be black men) who go on an on about their lack of attraction to white men.

Readers should really ask themselves why would these single black women/men? have this compulsion to share their opinions on a BW/WM interracially focused website to begin with?

It's nothing but an attempt to place DOUBT in the minds of any WM who come across this site.

Repeatedly this behavior that HARMS black women's collective image and HURTS black females chances on the IR relationship front, that Lisa A. is displaying has been denounced at this site and every other Black female empowerment site.

Yet, time and time again this behavior is repeated.

I want the readers to seriously ask themselves WHY is Lisa A. here to begin with?

On an interracially focused site? When it appears that she/he? hates men in general.

NOBODY and I mean NOBODY (including White Men) has done more to harm black people - especially black women and black children - in HALF A CENTURY - than DAMAGED BLACK MEN.

And any TRUE BW already KNOWS this. Whether she/he? was raised in a family that thought her/him to not associate with whites or not.

Readers, please realize that there are trolls CONSISTENTLY looking for a way to interject their poison into the discussion.

If you don't remember anything else remember that.

Lorraine said...

Halima,

What an interesting and profound perspective on this entire issue. You had me at the title and I was only further intrigued by the MJ analysis. Ak said it, Have truer words ever been spoken? Outstanding post!

cool_splash1 said...

"Of course, of this is true, why would any non bm want to get involved with a black woman? If the majority are down to hate the white man for life, isn't it easier if your a white male to just bypass bw all together? After all, there are plenty of fish in the sea."

No they will and are going after black Africa, Jamaican and other non AA women. We better stop drinking the Kool-aid or we will be left behind wondering what the hell happened.

Anonymous said...

Aimee, I agree with a lot of what you say, but how can you blame Black women for something they have been indoctrinated with since girlhood? When is someone going to hold the BLACK MALE-CONTROLED black community responsible for damaging MILLIONS of Black women vover decades and decades?

CW said...

Just walk away!

At this point, IMO "holding someone responsible" often carries too much weight and places yet another burden on BW shoulders...Yet another , battle to fight...Instead, I want this to be about Black women moving away from limiting circumstances and towards a more promising life...The accountability will come for the guilty when there is no one around to support them, cater to their interests, listen to the jive-turkey excuses...And what little credibility these factions left will be lost....

Anonymous says...."Aimee, I agree with a lot of what you say, but how can you blame Black women for something they have been indoctrinated with since girlhood? When is someone going to hold the BLACK MALE-CONTROLED black community responsible for damaging MILLIONS of Black women vover decades and decades?"

Celeste said...

Thank you AK for the encouraging comment. I'm just beginning to feel comfortable posting, so it's good to know I'm on the right track. Has anybody seen the new T.O. the football player reality show? I'd seen commercials about his upcoming show, depicting him surrounded with two young beautiful AA women. And I said to myself, now I know they're not going to let that be. I look at these shows with a growing sense of media literacy, so I checked it out to see what message they were trying to send forth to AA women this time. Well, sure enough, it was the same old message, just like Halima had so astutely observed. They had these women depicted has T.O's two harpy-like publicists, whose main function was to block the "chocolate adonis" from non-black women desperately seeking his attention. The show ended with T.O. having finally escaped their claws, and enjoying himself in the jacuzzi with a non-black female. Lord, have mercy, they just won't stop will they? If it was happening to somebody else it would be hilarious. As Halima noted, the AA women are in mammy positions of support. He knew that as a "brotha" two black female publicists would do the hard work of trying to put forth the best image of him possible, while he sought to court, date, and eventually marry a non-black woman.
I had to laugh. I hope young AA women are wising up and laughing too, as they prepare for interracial dating events like the one being advertised.

Jazine said...

CW's response to Anon is right. BW have to take personal responsibility inevitably for their lives. There is no side stepping or tap dancing around it.

Halima, the analysis of MJ left me flabbergasted because it's so true. It may be Janet who will take up the role of caring for MJ's kids. The task will already go to her once her mother can no longer care for them, which will probably be very soon.

Aimee said...

CW said...

Just walk away!
___________________________________

And that is the answer Anonymous (thanks CW!)

The goal for young sisters isn't to search high and low for someone to hold responsible for their miseducation. The goal is to free themselves from its fetters. And all that takes is Letting Go and Walking Away.

Anonymous said...

I see a A LOT of hypocracy here. First, Michael Jackson (A man who NEVER disrespected Black females in his songs/real life like the BLACK MALE rappers being indirectly protected here are)is being torn apart left, right, and sideways here for strange circumstances regarding how he chose to have his children as if deliberatly set out to hurt Black women, when it seems the man had a strange romantic/sexual relationship with females to say the least. Why is that being ignored? Who REALLY knew what Michael's thoughts on race, gender, skin color, females, males, etc were? I really do not think it is that cut and dry. On the other hand, these Black male rappers and atheletes who EXPLICITLY let their contempt and hatred for Black females be known publically by their own OBVIOUS actions/words and who do NOT have the mysterious behavior of MJ on that subject are being left alone on this blog. That is HYPOCRACY.

Frankly, I think you people are attacking him because MAYBE the man did NOT want to look like/be a Black MAN, and MAYBE had surgery to accomplish that.

Talk about Black male protectionism!

CW said...

That made absolutely...No sense


Anonymous said....."I see a A LOT of hypocracy here. First, Michael Jackson (A man who NEVER disrespected Black females in his songs/real life like the BLACK MALE rappers being indirectly protected here are)is being torn apart left, right, and sideways here for strange circumstances regarding how he chose to have his children as if deliberatly set out to hurt Black women, when it seems the man had a strange romantic/sexual relationship with females to say the least. Why is that being ignored? Who REALLY knew what Michael's thoughts on race, gender, skin color, females, males, etc were? I really do not think it is that cut and dry. On the other hand, these Black male rappers and atheletes who EXPLICITLY let their contempt and hatred for Black females be known publically by their own OBVIOUS actions/words and who do NOT have the mysterious behavior of MJ on that subject are being left alone on this blog. That is HYPOCRACY.

Frankly, I think you people are attacking him because MAYBE the man did NOT want to look like/be a Black MAN, and MAYBE had surgery to accomplish that.

Talk about Black male protectionism!"

cool_splash1 said...

Talk about Black male protectionism!

Anon you must not know where you are. You are at the wrong place honey. What black male protectionism are you talking about? He disrespected bw in overt ways. What bm disrespectfulness and racism has to be overt, all out there for everyone to see. Most of it is the between the lines kind of things people see, but don't want to acknowledge. Yeah you have the young bergs that are overt with it, but you also have the covert stuff that if bw don't wake up to will be in much deep ish if they don't get out of lala land.

Zabeth said...

Anonymous 10:47PM is making an obvious diversion attempt. By the way it’s h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y. Also note that the mysterious “Lisa A” hasn’t returned to the discussion either.

MizzU said...

My biggest issue I have is why is the white man exclusively the effigy to be burned at the stake in front of the Black community? Why is the white female never held accountable for her role in past racism and continuing racism? I honestly wonder why more Black women don't consider this question. I mean, not only do Black men jump through hoops to date white women nowadays, they actually defend their interests and their struggles more so than they do for Black women! So how have a lot of Black women not put it together that 'the white man' have been made the scapegoat of all racism in the Black community ONLY because they are males and because Black men at large do not consider them potential sexual partners/mates thus they do not want to sever ties or ostrasize themselves from them? There is a reason why in the 70s with the Black power movement the rallying cry was against the white man and not white people and it was NOT because they were the sole upholders of racism against Blacks.

I remember getting into a discussion about this with a couple of Black males on a separate hip hop site, asking them why does the history of white on Black racism only arise when it comes to Black women dating white men? And where is this consciousness of the past when it comes to Black men dating white women? You would not believe the lengths these guys went to to explain away the role white women played in persecuting the Black race, most of them harping that white women were powerless in Blacks' persecution as all women had few rights at the time. Interestingly enough, when I got into a different discussion with these same Black males about the strides Black women were making in education, profession, and class, etc. that Black men were/are not (or not at the same rate) every excuse in the book was given then as well. But this time, BLACK WOMEN were painted as the privileged group whom had doors open for them that Black men did not. Probably the most insulting argument they made was that Black women are being basically handed success (not that we work hard and overcome obstacles to achieve it them, but that they are 'gifted' to us) because white men 'do not see us as a threat' and they rather give us a job than Black men. That was very amusing to me. Sexism against women weighed in heavily in their excuses as to why white women are victims and white men were the real perpetrators when it came to racism, but when it came to Black women excelling past Black men at appalling rates, sexism not only didn't exist but it was reversed and WE were the ones benefiting from being BLACK and FEMALE. lol.

Also I want to add as a note, I don't really think there is anything wrong with what Lisa A said. Though I don't agree with it as I am currently in a relationship with a white man, I can see where she's coming from. I probably will get flamed for this, but the logic she uses is very sound. She is holding both Black men AND white men accountable for the evils they have done to Black women in the past. I do not know that woman from Eve and neither does anyone else on this site, so it could very well be that she has had personal experiences from which she's drawn these conclusions about both races of men. And if that is the case, she has every right to be wary and should just from now her make wise choices in the men of non-Black and white ancestry that she chooses from. I am just happy that she is not limiting her choices to Black men alone and I think you ladies should be too. After all, white men are not our only option in the same way Black men aren't. We should NEVER trade in Black male protectionism for white male protectionism.

JMHO, and keep up the good work.

Anonymous said...

A lot of the women on these forums seem bitter towards white women, and if you want to marry interracially that is not a good idea. When I was looking for a non-black man I began socializing with many people of all races and sexes. My white girlfriend introduced me to my husband and I never would have met him otherwise. Your white boyfriend's social circle will have many white women as friends, relatives, wives/gfs of his friends, and most men prefer not to marry a woman who has a bad attitude towards most of the women he knows esp. his mother and sisters. There's a lot of cattiness and bitterness toward other women among bw because we are used to competing for a small number of available black men, but we have to leave that attitude behind when we abandon that "nothing but a black man" mentality. Quality men hate cattiness toward other women, and non-black men interested in relationships with bw definitely prefer bw who have as little racial resentment and baggage as possible.

MizzU said...

Anonymous @ 12:01

I'm not sure if you meant it to sound the way it does to me, but it is a very poor argument to say that you are bitter towards white women because you are questioning why they are not held accountable for their role in racism the way white men are. That accusation of being "bitter" is the same arguments many Black men try to use against Black women when they are asked why the white man is supposed to be the enemy of the Black race and the white woman is not. My questioning has nothing to do with getting an attitude with anyone (or any group) on a personal basis.

Anonymous said...

For one, these women didn't have Michael Jackson's children. He put his name on the birth certificates of these women's children.

Second, Michael Jackson is so far removed from the average black man as well as the average human being, that he is not even comparable. I believe that all of his brothers married and had children with black women.

And third, that is his mother and she is the only mother he has. She is black. So if he wanted his mother to raise his children, then that would automatically require them being raised by a black woman.

Anonymous said...

MizzU.

THANK YOU. I am so sick and tired of White women getting a pass on racism from Blacks as if they are totally innocent or something. That is just done to please Black men because the Black race is set up to cater to the Black male above all else. Since he wants White women, calling them out on their racism is a big no-no. What a crock! As for that anon talking about sisters being "bitter" towards White and non Black women, I find it strange how she did not mention how some of her precious White and non Black women have serious superiority complexes and think they are better than us. Sounds quite hipocritical of her to me! They can think they are bett than us and deserve more than we do, and we can't fight back against that? NO WAY! You missed me with that mess!

PioneerValleyWoman said...

MizzU:

You would not believe the lengths these guys went to to explain away the role white women played in persecuting the Black race, most of them harping that white women were powerless in Blacks' persecution as all women had few rights at the time. Interestingly enough, when I got into a different discussion with these same Black males about the strides Black women were making in education, profession, and class, etc. that Black men were/are not (or not at the same rate) every excuse in the book was given then as well. But this time, BLACK WOMEN were painted as the privileged group whom had doors open for them that Black men did not. Probably the most insulting argument they made was that Black women are being basically handed success (not that we work hard and overcome obstacles to achieve it them, but that they are 'gifted' to us) because white men 'do not see us as a threat' and they rather give us a job than Black men. That was very amusing to me. Sexism against women weighed in heavily in their excuses as to why white women are victims and white men were the real perpetrators when it came to racism, but when it came to Black women excelling past Black men at appalling rates, sexism not only didn't exist but it was reversed and WE were the ones benefiting from being BLACK and FEMALE. lol.

My reply:

I am so glad you posted this, because this sums it up in a nutshell! Moreover, it explains why black men are resentful of black women and see their issues as being illegitimate.

Black women have become the enemy, rather than the white power structure.

The reality is that black women are victims of sexism and racism, and have always been, but in black men's eyes, sexism against black women does not exist, and they benefit from racism.

In this upside down world, black men are the true victims of sexism and racism, because black women are the preferred sex within the race.

Forget about violence against women, rape and so forth, that means nothing since "the man" gives black women benefits--greater education and a higher economic status.

Apparently, in these men's view, black women become partners with the white man as his handmaiden in discriminating against black men.

Crazy and outlandish, I know, but that is how many black men see it, and they have been talking this way over the past 40 years, since the Moynhihan report gave the basis for arguing so, and since numbers of black women began to talk about gender in their lives in the wake of the women's movement.

But too many black women in that earlier period let themselves be blamed and scapegoated for their abilities to thrive notwithstanding racism and sexism, and thus hung their heads in shame. They worked over time to prove their loyalty and build up black men, because of the guilt they were made to feel.

Lisa A. said...

I had to respond after seeing a few of these comments. First of all, I'm a black woman. And second of all, this site was passed on to me by a friend, that's why I'm here. My points of view are what they are, sorry it offends some of you. I have been at the receiving end of racism from whites and seen too much racism come from white men in and out of america not to say anything about it. If you have a problem with facing the reality that a lot of white men are racist (closet racist and overt) then fine, but pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to make it go away. I believe in dealing with people on an individual basis, but I can't ignore the common mentality of each group of people.


Don't twist what I'm saying either, black men are completely screwed up, everything from their color complexes and false entitlement to the way they excuse white women for everything and blame black women for everything. But, a lot of white men are screwed up too, sometimes just as much as black men. I'm just calling it how I see it.

Anonymous said...

Halima:
But in reading the many comments left on your blog, I was surprised to find that while there has been much discussion of blaming WM, no one has even mentioned the impact that WW have had in destroying the lives of BW. WM may appear to have the power in society, it's really WW. She rules him through social influence and sexual power. Many WM have gotten positions of power thru wives and other women. The CEO's wife can befriend the wife of a lower level manager and before you know it, with a recommendation he is an Executive manager. WW saw they were powerless in preventing WM from sexual relationships with slave women and vowed never again let us get anywhere near WM. They know WM secretly desire us and they know our power is authentic as seductresses, wives and mothers and know the danger of exposure. They teach their sons to stay away from us. They sanction suburban life that prevents mixing of races and are gatekeepers in Human Resources, so they can "screen" out capable BW, keeping them out of the Board Room and places where WM reside. This is why BW have a hard time getting to meet educated, high earning, successful WM. WW control much of the wealth in this country, because they marry the wealth and keep it for them and their offspring. When they have nothing to entice a successful WM to marry them, the go after BM who are more than eager to share their wealth. So make no mistake, the WM is not our nemesis, it's our WF counterpart. If we can maneuver past them, we will have access to successful WM who are more than willing to try something different. More WM are understanding this scenario now as they see how loyal, capable, educated and even tempered BW are and are getting past the stereotypes and labels put upon us. However, re-education is a slow process and BW need to be proactive about changing those tired worn out stereotypes that WW have perpetrated in order to keep the status quo. We have to be our own advocates and promote ourselves better and let the world know how intelligent we are, and how relationship oriented we are. Black women are not prone to One-Night stands. We are raised better than that. WW sleep around (statistic bear this out) at a far greater rate than any groups of color. If a BWhas a good man, she appreciates him and will work with him to build a life - not marry him so she can have diamonds, furs, etc. Black women are fertile and can give the WM offspring (and very beautiful exotic looking children from such unions, strengthening weaker genes). The trouble is WM have never gotten to know us socially, as we do not have the social connections through sports, etc. that brings BM into contact with WW. We have to begin making in-roads into the social area, then we can truly demonstrate what we have to offer. BW have to demand that TV and Hollywood portray us in a better light. And stop allowing false statistics to be given about BW, like "BW is the fastest growing HIV/AIDS population in the US (which simply isn't true) while Black men jump on the band wagon spouting these "truths" along with Whites. If the HIV/AIDS statistics were true, then where are the men who already have AIDS and are infecting BW with AIDS? Shouldn't those men's numbers be higher since they are doing the infecting? That stuff doesn't make sense, but we are not challenging the lies, so it's our fault our reputations are being ruined. If we don't stand up for ourselves no one will. Which means that no man (White, Asian, Hispanic, or Middle Eastern) will want to associate themselves with us if BW continue to be ridiculed in American Society and be viewed as the worst woman a man could ever connect with.

ak said...

To MizzU.

Black men just like their selective memory of whitewashing over the fact that white women did not protect or prevent them from being lynched in the early 20th century. Point blank.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Aphrodite:

Now that I think about it I have had one brush with similar. There was a BM I went to grammar school with who contacted me while I was in undergrad. He served in the army and had been stationed in Germany where he had met a German woman and they had a child together. The child was a toddler and I was shocked - just at the fact that he had a child- bc I thought that was so young- at the time.

But he said to me that he wanted to marry a BW bc he wanted his child to know and have pride in Black Culture.

My reply:

Although this is late, I thought of another example.

Someone I know, BM, was in the military. When he wanted to get married and start a family, he married a WW. They had two children, and are since separated/divorced.

But now that he is single and has one of the children living with him, he is shacking up with a BW. So the BW does not get the benefit of marriage, but she is helping him raise his child.

nayo92112 said...

cool_splash1 said...
"....He disrespected bw in overt ways. What bm disrespectfulness and racism has to be overt, all out there for everyone to see. Most of it is the between the lines kind of things people see, but don't want to acknowledge.

2:59 AM
----------------------------

Oh my goodness! With regards to this analysis on MJ, that is exactly what I have been struggling with since his passing. I am a huge MJ fan, and when he was with us, I couldn't help but notice his selection in women for his mates/mothers of his children.

I of course said 'live and let live', but then when I saw who the nanny was, and the cook and the nurse, I was stopped short. When MJ passed, I cried, am still weeping some days, but was left with this cognitive dissonance on what he actually meant to me as an AA woman. This discussion helps me to view this in the critical manner I was being led to. I know I'm not crazy. I especially appreciate that part about the 'covert' forms of disrespect. That is such a heavy concept that I will have to stop here.

lissa said...

Halima,
I am not surprised at all by BW hating WM. The history of them and us is there. I even see some questionable profiles online regarding race. Thank you for calling out MJ. I always looked at him suspiciously. Look at the kind of ww he chose.