Monday, January 18, 2010

The Essays: Virulent Racio-Misogyny in the Black Community

As you readers of this blog are now aware, we have become infested with a group of people obviously bm, who have written some very hateful things towards us and black women as a group. We have been called overweight, dark-skinned nappy-headed Whoopi Goldberg-lookin' hoes, women without class in public, out of shape, the nastiest weave weares etc.

I want you all to know that when we see what these men are doing as merely sexism, we are missing the bulls eye, and preventing ourselves from understanding the current phenomenon that is characterised by a deep hatred and ill will towards bw. And no wonder we can’t protect ourselves and our daughters because we have failed to adequately delineate and name this phenomenon. The name for it is definitely not sexism and I will explain why.

Sexism is a general term which puts women as a whole in target however what you get in the case of bm, are insults and targeted aggression that are directed specifically at black women and the black female situation, so that it becomes inapplicable beyond black females. As an example, you know how ridiculous it would be to call an Asian woman a nappy headed ho, it just doesn’t apply.

Since sexism targets women equally it doesn’t apply to a situation where men put down bw but praise their non-black counterparts. Remember sexism encompasses a disregard for women as a whole, but where you get one group of women praised vis a vis another then we are dealing with something different. These men call black women hateful names for aspects of black womanhood, but praise non-black women for their attributes be it physical and behavioural and mock black women for being the antithesis of what is good and becoming. Bearing all these in mind, a more appropraite name of this phenomenum being displayed by bm is racio-misogyny.

Racio-misogyny creates as space for non-black women to glory over bw or to position themselves above bw in a way that white supremacy doesn’t provide. White supremacy says, “When you come outside your house, you will know that I reign supreme,” While racio-misogyny opens the door and says “Come in and put yourself above the women in here”.

Racio-misogyny adapts general oppressive norms and makes them more applicable to the specific black situation, meaning that while bw could resist or ignore these more general values and standards because, they are somewhat removed from them, they cannot offer an effective resistance against racio-misogyny which is brought intimately into their situation. This is one of the reasons why I believe that the black community is a ‘failed’ community (just like you get failed states), because a real community offers a buffer or a barrier against the full impact of wider dynamics (just as your skin prevents the sun from frying your liver) but in the black community the wider hostile standards are operating fully and unrestrained against black women.

Racio-misogyny might have resulted from the intercourse of racism and sexism, but it is now its own self-sustaining creature; thus it is time to discard the idea that it is only about internalised racism and to see it only in this framework. It deserves to be ‘mobilised against’ just as we mobilise against racism. Indeed it has now begun to generate its own weapons, exporting terms back into the hands of white supremacy for use to further wreck havoc on black womanhood (the two have found a commonality in their desire to destroy aspects of blackness with bm now helping to defract white supremacist forces onto black womanhood). For an instance, notice how the word ho is now synonymous with the black female character (questionable or not).

Black men have effectively employed the strategy of ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend’, in cooperating with wider forces in their attempt to rout bw (how else do you explain bm enthusiastic employment of weapons from the so called enemy to inflict injury on black women), while bw are still paralysed because they cannot seem to move past the fact that a black brother would do what they do to them deliberately, so they are busy trying to understand bm actions in terms of the internalised racism paradigm. But they waste time and energy by not accepting that bm might hold their own self-generating ill will towards bw. Indeed this goes against every framework (especially the very romantic afrocentric framework they have been given to evaluate their situation), which is based on an assumption of goodwill between bm and w before the impact of white supremacy.

My advice is that we bw focus our eyes on the gun pointed at us, and the damage it is about to do, and take our eyes and thus emotions off he who pulls the trigger. Dead is dead!

151 comments:

Trvlrgrl said...

Wow Halima, this is an interesting post!

I agree that the degree of hatred that some black men direct towards black women is beyond simple sexism. When I've experienced it at it's worse, I can only describe it as a wave of hatred directed towards me with the intent to destroy. With some men I can literally FEEL the heat of their hatred.

There's no question this level of hatred is not about me since most of these men don't even know me.

My personal goal is to let these types of men and their hatred pass through my life like water. To not engage their anger on any level. To not hate back in return, or rationalize it, or try to understand it, or fear it. My aim is to wish those persons the best as they keep on moving out of my life.

Even though I don't always succeed with this, I truly believe that if you refuse to give these men any entry into your thoughts or life they will simply go away and find someone else who will. But doing this, particularly when they're pressing all your buttons is not easy!

Phoenix_Sun said...

So true, tvlrgrl. I am have found through experience that if you don't give them what they want they will inevitably leave you alone. When I was living in my old neighborhood a lot of the men there harassed me through emotional and at times physical assault, but they never broke me. After a while they couldn't figure me out and raise their hands up in frustration because I didn't give into them nor was I afraid of whatever hostility they dished out. I also felt the hatred was very black female specific. The best thing you can do is to neutralize that negativity and avoid internalizing it.

Anonymous said...

Since sexism targets women equally it doesn’t apply to a situation where men put down bw but praise their non-black counterparts. Remember sexism encompasses a disregard for women as a whole, but where you get one group of women praised vis a vis another then we are dealing with something different.


I think a good example of this is the way that many young bm react to any criticism of non-bw like Vida Guerra or Ice-T's wife Coco. They are clearly so grateful to these women for their apparent sexual availability to black men, and so completely accepting of the supremacist notion that white women are inherently pure (regardless of their conduct,) that they will brook no negative judgement of these women.

The same black men who laughed gleefully when a group of exemplary scholar-athletes were called "nappyheaded hoes" and defended the white racist who insulted them, become enraged at any criticism leveled at an actual whore like Kim Kardashian--an unabashed "ho" who has openly prostituted images of herself having sex for money.

I don't want to engage in the typical mammy behavior of attacking these women for trying to "steal our men." I'm just pointing out the different behaviorial standards that many bm have for the behavior of bw and non-bw: that regardless of the quality of a bw's character and conduct, she will always be nothing but a "bitch and ho," and regardless of how degraded a non-bw's conduct, bm will always find a way to defend her.

Racio-misogyny is the perfect way to sum it up--thank you again Halima!

Aphrodite said...

I have now learned a new word. That is so appropriate and so sad at the same time.

However, what are the ways to combat this?

I too like the other posters have come in contact with men like this, but had no idea what it was when I encountered it.

Kay said...

I agree with this post wholeheartedly, and I think it makes life in the U.S. even more hostile for us. I agree with many blogs that talk about how unprotected we are. I hate that reality, but I'm not about to let it steal my resolve and darken my soul.

We are unprotected in a way that bm refuse to realize and/or don't care to be conscious of.

It's rough, but we have to practice self-love if we want anyone else to love and appreciate us. So, we have to have and demonstrate and unwaveringly high regard for ourselves and our kind.

We have to stop cutting corners to feel loved and accepted, because in the end we just cheat ourselves out of the real thing and out of true wholeness and happiness. We have to put ourselves on a pedestal and refuse to accept anything that attempts to cheapen our value in society.

After all, we are strong, very courageous, and our strength and resilence is beautiful. We are butterflys going through a metamorphis over time. Our struggle makes us even more phenomenal and nothing and no one, no battle, no discent from others can take that away from us.

Much love always.

Ticklemepink said...

My personal goal is to let these types of men and their hatred pass through my life like water. To not engage their anger on any level. To not hate back in return, or rationalize it, or try to understand it, or fear it. My aim is to wish those persons the best as they keep on moving out of my life.

Thats what I do and it does work, I think their opinion is just as valid as mine but I dont need to be affected by it.

Its funny that the strain that its "White men only want you for sex, its just sexual" is coming from the same people who are trying to keep it in the race. Like thats gonna make me attracted , ha. Telling me that Im only good for sex/must be ugly/never be taken seriously.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?? I dont hear any other race putting their women down like that.

Anonymous said...

aphrodite wrote:
However, what are the ways to combat this?

There are currently no legal ways to combat this because BW have not (and most likely will not for well known reasons) come together in a unified force to equate the sick, hateful, and self-hating behavior of DBR black "men" towards BW as hate law violations.

Animals, I mean "men" like the aforementioned population, are the SAME as Klansmen, Neo-Nazi's, and Skinheads. Now how best do we avoid these individuals? When you notice signs of dysfunctional and hateful thinking/behavior in your presence You AVOID them. Just like you would a rabid dog. Calmly and unemotionally remove yourself from the situation. Because DBR BM - like dogs - are unpredictable, easily anger, and go into attack mode when they sense fear.

Don't associate with them, allow your thoughts to dwell on them, attempt to "help" them out of their madness, and for GOD'S sake DO NOT mate with them and have their children.

Black women who have done so have been CURSED.

Just imagine, a BW going through the pain of childbirth usually alone (risking her life as some mothers die in labor) only to bring into this world a son destined to be a cruel, worthless, and hateful monster thanks to the misogyny that is indeed rampant in large segments of "the community".SMH

When a son doesn't have a decent and worthwhile male role model (ideally his father) to model normal masculine behavior, the streets and dysfunctional "community" take him and destroy him.

Turns him into a MONSTER that grows up, then turns and attacks the ONLY hand that's ever fed him.

It's truly a sick state of affairs...SMH

AND THAT'S WHY IT'S CRUCIAL SISTAS CHOOSE THE BEST MEN TO MARRY AND FATHER THEIR CHILDREN.

Which, by the way is COMMON sense and well known information to most non African-American women the world over.

Sistas, concentrate instead on bettering yourself, educating yourself so you can move out of neighborhoods were these types of "males" predominate, and opening yourself up to good, loving, responsible, undamaged, non hateful towards BW men PERIOD.

This world is literally filled with them.

Evia said...

A BRILLIANT diagnosis, Halima. Thank you for giving this "virus" that many black people (males and females) have regarding bw a name--Virulent Racio Mysogyny or I'll abbreviate it to VRM since I like abbreviations. LOL! I could cite so many examples of this. Thanks for this critical addition to the terminology and concepts needed to help bw to clearly grasp these malevolent dynamics. Clarity is SO IMPORTANT to help more bw to see this malevolent force we're up against. The fact is that most bw know of this thing, but we now have a name for it and this will make it more real and more visible and something more visible can be more easily attacked.

@ Anon who said:
They are clearly so grateful to these women for their apparent sexual availability to black men, and so completely accepting of the supremacist notion that white women are inherently pure (regardless of their conduct,) that they will brook no negative judgement of these women.

SO TRUE!! In my personal e-mail, two virulently racio-mysogynistic bm have attacked me in the last week for making comments in my blog that they consider as 'demeaning white women' and one said I'm being 'racist' towards white women. Both bm went on to sing the praises of white women and point out how superior ww are to bw. OMG! If it wouldn't take my blog off track, I would post the entirety of their vehement defense and celebration of white women.

As Halima is pointing out, this goes far beyond sexism or general disdain for bw. This VRM virus is a deadly virus that is aimed ONLY at bw, and very few bw are able to guard against it because, there's virtually no awareness of its existence--prior to now. If it were a medical phenomenon, there would be widespread knowledge about it by now since the black female casulties and fatalities are so many. No one in the black community is talking about the epidemiology of this "virus" because it impacts black females, or they see it as a byproduct of racism or hip hop. That's not really the case wholly, but it doesn't matter where it came from. It EXISTS and forewarned is forearmed. As Halima says, every sista needs to send as many bw to this blog and to mine as possible. More of y'all also need to start similar blogs and sites, and we need to link all of them.

One of the hater black males who I referred to above (yellamon) tried to make me believe that when rappers use terms like "bitch" and "ho," those terms apply to ALL women. LOL!! I told him I would ask my 6 white sister-in-laws if they ever got any inkling that rappers are referring to them when they call a woman one of these. Of course, I didn't bother to ask them. OF COURSE NOT!! My sister-in-laws KNOW that these rappers are not referring to them! These guys constantly try to confuse bw and obfuscate this attack on bw in order to continue getting our sexual, financial, social, political and other favors from bw while they simulataneously attack us.

Black women need to really get a lot more sophisticated about clearly seeing this situation for what it is because black women are currently way too "understanding" and softhearted about this thing. Too many of us are still trying to communicate with the "brothas" because we think that we can talk them out of using and abusing us. We think we can persuade them to give up their current (supply and demand) advantage over us. It won't happen!

Some black men are seeing that some of us are on to them, and some are now pretending to want healthier/equal/loving relationships with us. Don't believe this hype!! I don't think that there are many of them who even know how to love us as we deserve to be loved because they have been so conditioned against us.

Felicia said...

"Some black men are seeing that some of us are on to them, and some are now pretending to want healthier/equal/loving relationships with us. Don't believe this hype!! I don't think that there are many of them who even know how to love us as we deserve to be loved because they have been so conditioned against us."

The proof is in the pudding. Sista's should evaluate ALL men regardless of "race" by the SAME HIGH STANDARDS. No compromising. It's ALL ABOUT ACTIONS ladies.

That keeps things simple.

EXCELLENT posts all of you! Including you anon's out there.

To be honest, DBR black males are actually worse than avowed self-labeled white supremacist. Because they do a lot more physical and psychological damage statistically speaking, and at least with them, their hatred and venom is directed outward OUTSIDE of their communities. Although they're twisted, their misguided intent is to PROTECT white women and children from outside forces with ill intent.

With DBR black "men" their sickness is directed INWARD towards the black community and meant to maim and destroy BW and children.

It doesn't get sicker than this.

Yes, some of us ARE on to them (and some of us always have been) and thank GOD forums exist so that this information can be shared.

Forewarned IS forearmed.

There is NO reason why sistas in 2007 in industrialized Western countries have to be suffering like so many of them are.

Anonymous said...

That is pretty much what happens when you make similar, and even worse remarks about black men.

That is pretty much what happens when certain people - and their mammy doormats - don't want their dirty drawers aired for the world to see.

The stench however has grown too strong over the years for decent people to ignore.

EVERY LAST WORD that has been spoken about BM who are worthless, sadistic, and damaged beyond repair - and have proven to be so by their ACTIONS - has been the TRUTH.

And EVERYONE knows it. Including you.

mekare said...

Congrats on the one year mark.

I am glad that you are addressing the issues that you do. Now that it has been established that there external forces that assist in keeping black women from living life to the fullest, I am hoping that the focus of this forum to shift back to self criticism and what can do to improve their lives.

I am not saying this because I am afraid of the comments that the anonymous fools make but because dealing with them is way too time consuming, negative and draining. This type of commenter argues and will not stop. They are smart and their goal is to trip you up with your own words to discredit you.

There is a whole world out there for black women and that it is clear that dbms and mammies are not going to change but that should not stop us from doing what needs to be done. We have to take care of ourselves because the placing their efforts, expectations, and focus in the black man and the community has failed. Why continue doing something that is inefficient?

I am not saying “get over it” like other insensitive people have because the people on this forum can and should talk about them when relevant. (There are topics and reasons that are intertwined.)

However, black women attracted to other men, look forward to living, having positive experiences and loving just like everyone else. No need to keep wasting time. Just some thoughts. It’s your house so you make the rules.

mekare said...

oops, wrong topic.

Is there anyway this can be moved? Or should I just repost?

Halima said...

Thanks all for your comments
I agree that the degree of hatred that some black men direct towards black women is beyond simple sexism. When I've experienced it at it's worse, I can only describe it as a wave of hatred directed towards me with the intent to destroy.

This is very true in my experince, there is this sense that i have done something grievous to them, like if i stole their million dollars and caused them to loose their house and family!

Funny enough i never experince any hostility like this from men from Africa. so there is definitely something about the experince of aa or british black men that positions bw as the enemy in their minds!

i dont think bw can do anything for this situation because of the type of responsis we get when we raise the issue, therefor i think bw should just keep their peace and move away once they identify these men for what they are.

Halima said...

Aphrodite

the problem is that we continue to see these men as 'brothers' somewhat , which gives them access to us emotionaly.

Instead we should put them in our mind and emotions where we place RACIST WHITE MEN and not just any racist wm but KKK because they are deliberate in their hatred of bw and their aim is to destroy us.

With racist wm we have some guard up, but with them we dont so they are potentially more dnagerous!


as evia calls them they are Damaged Beyond Repair, i just want us to understand the nature of their damage and how they can get access to us. we cannot afford to tip toe anymore around the fact that they are our enemies!

EmergingPhoenix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EmergingPhoenix said...

"I am not saying this because I am afraid of the comments that the anonymous fools make but because dealing with them is way too time consuming, negative and draining. This type of commenter argues and will not stop. They are smart and their goal is to trip you up with your own words to discredit you."

I just want to say something to everyone in this regard. I agree with this 100%, even though I tend to confront them. Honestly, my goal is to neutralize their damage, and assure those women who may be affected by their comments, of the reality of the situation and the lack of reason in their statements. When you confront these people, not only does it wear on you mentally, but physically as well. There was a point in time, where I cared about trying to help these people see the error of their ways (so to speak). Not only did I become mentally depressed, but I gained a good deal of weight (and I was/am very athletic and a runner). I swear once I stopped caring, the weight just fell off. I didn't even have to change anything in my daily routine. Granted some of my habits during depression changed, e.g. eating unconciously, but really I didn't have to do much. They say stress levels increase hormones that cause you to hold onto weight and trigger you to eat more. Just a little FYI, as to why it is soo important to not harbor their words or even try and reason with them. They are really trying to cause you to self-destruct, whether you/them realize it or not.

As for Racio-Misogyny, I love it!! Finally, I word to put to this behavior. I swear I have seen some rough things, especially since I tend to be around non-black females, and get to witness first-hand how brothas will cause a raucous to get my attention, only so I will not miss them hitting on my non-black associate. Some even go as far as to get in my face, and give me the longest, meanest glare, as if they would beat me down right there, if it weren't against the law. Then turn around and ask my associate to dance in the sweetest manner, you would think you were dealing with a schizophrenic. I swear, I am surprised I don't have some ingrained fear against brothas. And to think, I used to try and be nice and counsel them.

Evia said...

I think that sistas should NEVER let anyone or anything get them off their path from find a loving and loveable, suitable and compatible mate if this is what she wants. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about DBRbm here or anything else. Don't let our discussions about anything here or any of the trolls get you off track because that's wasting your precious time and a woman doesn't have that much time to waste if she wants to reproduce.

This means that if you think your loving and loveable mate might be among nonblack men, then make it a point of working EACH DAY towards positioning yourself so that you can most likely meet him either offline or online. Our discussions here should not deter you from that.

Now that it has been established that there external forces that assist in keeping black women from living life to the fullest, I am hoping that the focus of this forum to shift back to self criticism and what can do to improve their lives.

Mekare, if I'm interpreting you correctly, you're saying that you'd prefer that blogs like Halima's and mine should be focusing on topics that would move those black women who get it more directly towards living fulfilling lives? Meeting nonblack men? Or what exactly are you saying??

Sounds like you're saying forget about those sistas who are still asleep? LOL!! I hear you, but different ones of us feel differently about that.

Halima, if you don't mind me asking this, I'd like to know what topics would be most helpful to some of these sistas.

Mekare and others, even if Halima or I would not want to write on these topics at this point, there are other sistas who write to me personally who want to start IR blogs that are in the same vein and your topic suggestions might give them the ideas they need to get started. In order not to get this off topic here, you can send them to me personally and I'll mention them in a future blog.

Also, there are white men like Classical One

http://whitemenforblackwomen.blogspot.com/

whose blog is evidence of his appreciation of black women. I hope y'all will check out his blog and ask him to speak to issues that a white man may be able to best answer.

Halima said...

To be honest, DBR black males are actually worse than avowed self-labeled white supremacist. Because they do a lot more physical and psychological damage statistically speaking, and at least with them, their hatred and venom is directed outward OUTSIDE of their communities. Although they're twisted, their misguided intent is to PROTECT white women and children from outside forces with ill intent.

Felicia thanks for articulating what i was trying to say in my last entry. i think we have been tolerating what their avowed hatred of bw for far too long trying to deny it, or explain it away, in fact i see bw beginning to trivialise these horrible attacks on their persons.

i think because our emotions cannot handle a black man on the level of KKK, i also think we are ashamed of the world knowing the monsters in our midst. we think they will laugh to high heavens to hear that we now have our very own racist monsters and so we are trying to hold it down!

if someone hates you for your race and would see you destroyed you wouldnt be quite about it.

My instincts says we should start opening up about these men to the wider community instead of trying to keep it hush hush, while it kills us!

Anonymous said...

"the problem is that we continue to see these men as 'brothers' somewhat , which gives them access to us emotionally.

Instead we should put them in our mind and emotions where we place RACIST WHITE MEN and not just any racist wm but KKK because they are deliberate in their hatred of bw and their aim is to destroy us. "


Exactly Halima. Any BW who continues to see these cretins as 'brothers' is either insane or seriously misguided or both. Really, they need to take those rose colored glasses off and face reality.

They are the SAME AS THE KKK and potentially MUCH more lethal.

They must be avoided like the plague. At ALL costs. Truly, once you get the hang of it it's quite easy.

Once you stop needlessly allowing yourself to be emotionally attached to DBR black "males" they will become invisible to you. You will develop the ability to see right through them. And their venom will roll of your back and be the equivalent of background noise as you pursue and achieve happiness, love, peace of mind and security with men deserving of the title.

I'm talking from experience here.

Anonymous said...

i think because our emotions cannot handle a black man on the level of KKK, i also think we are ashamed of the world knowing the monsters in our midst. we think they will laugh to high heavens to hear that we now have our very own racist monsters and so we are trying to hold it down!

Sistas can try to "hold it down" all they want but everyone knows what monsters are in our midst. And many non blacks simply can't fathom why BW - especially those seemingly with a lot going for themselves - put up with such shit.

BW best start wrapping their brains around the concept of damaged BM being on the same level as the KKK because the streets are crawling with them.

If they don't, if they refuse to believe the truth, they will continue to be VICTIMS. And so will their children. Especially their daughters.

It DOES NOT have to go down like this. BW can wise up before it's too late and have happy healthy futures for themselves and their offspring.

IF they make that choice. Everything in life boils down to choices.

-Avid Reader

Halima said...

Clarity is SO IMPORTANT to help more bw to see this malevolent force we're up against. The fact is that most bw know of this thing, but we now have a name for it and this will make it more real and more visible and something more visible can be more easily attacked.

Yes Evia we need to delineate delineate delineate, because there has been so much covering up and incompleteness and dishonesty about the issues that face bw as if the folks are trying to hide the enormity of the problem!

Too many of us are still trying to communicate with the "brothas" because we think that we can talk them out of using and abusing us. We think we can persuade them to give up their current (supply and demand) advantage over us. It won't happen!

Indeed that stage has past, there is no reasoning with them anymore, they are hell bent on destroying us so there can be no reasoning

No one in the black community is talking about the epidemiology of this "virus" because it impacts black females, or they see it as a byproduct of racism or hip hop.

This is the thing evia we continue to see this problem as derived from wider racism and deny the deliberateness and self-generating nature of bm hostility towards bw as if it would fall away if racism wasnt there to uphold it. i however think it would exist, just flavoured with whatever ism it could latch unto.

vee said...

Remember sexism encompasses a disregard for women as a whole.
And please remember that sexism is discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex. Which is to say sexism also encompasses a disregard for men as a whole.
I dont hear any other race putting their women down like that.
I hear those sentiments from other men often.
only to bring into this world a son destined to be a cruel, worthless, and hateful monster thanks to the misogyny that is indeed rampant in large segments of "the community".
One, is this only applicable to bm? And two, there are many bm born to a single mother that are not cruel, worthless and hateful. I would also venture to say that they were not destined to be that way either AND I am referring to bm from different socio-economic backgrounds, and I'll add ethnic backgrounds.
Thank you for giving this "virus" that many black people (males and females) have regarding bw a name--
Some one was fair enough to actually include females.
Some black men are seeing that some of us are on to them, and some are now pretending to want healthier/equal/loving relationships with us. Don't believe this hype!! I don't think that there are many of them who even know how to love us as we deserve to be loved because they have been so conditioned against us.
One, there is a strong chance that the person you think is pretending to want that kind of relationship is serious and sincere. Two, the "knowing how to love you the way you deserve" claim is definitely not an exclusive bm characteristic, that's just a generalization. Third, "because they have been so conditioned against us," but can you see or explore the reverse view?
The proof is in the pudding. Sista's should evaluate ALL men regardless of "race" by the SAME HIGH STANDARDS.
Fairly stated.

To be honest, DBR black males are actually worse than avowed self-labeled white supremacist. Because they do a lot more physical and psychological damage statistically speaking, and at least with them, their hatred and venom is directed outward OUTSIDE of their communities. Although they're twisted, their misguided intent is to PROTECT white women and children from outside forces with ill intent. With DBR black "men" their sickness is directed INWARD towards the black community and meant to maim and destroy BW and children.

Honestly, I don't know specifically what kind physical violence this paragraph is referring to but in the case of domestic violence, that stats are just about even or prove that women in fact are more aggressive in relationships than men*. But for the most part proving that DBR men are out to destroy bw and children can not be proved and sounds overly dramatic. Proving intent is very difficult.
*This is well known in academic circles, but not often discussed in the media. Granted, I'm sure that there are other papers and statistics that can probably refute the claim in some form one way or the other but I wanted to provide a source material to let you know that I'm not just throwing out claims. Note, that link was readily available with a simple search on Google.
Source:
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

Yes, some of us ARE on to them (and some of us always have been) and thank GOD forums exist so that this information can be shared.
Information or views and/or opinions

Anonymous said...

Honestly, I don't know specifically what kind physical violence this paragraph is referring to but in the case of domestic violence, that stats are just about even or prove that women in fact are more aggressive in relationships than men.
___________________________________

How many women end up dead at the hands of domestic partners vs. men?

Halima said...

Vee
sexism is about a disregard for women, i will not buy that black re-interpretation that seeks to make bm a victim of sexism more than i will abide by the fake and disingenous analogies of reverse racism!


i do not accept that bw and bm are equally culpable. it is a well known argument in black circles that bm and bw are involved in tit for tat situation each giveing as good as they get, i reject such an idea totally as BS.

Bm are the AGGRESSORS in this ongoing battle! bw might have simply started to respond in kind, but thats just about it, so trying to raise instances to prove that bw do it also, doesnt fly. i see bw at this point as being in self defence mode against the incessant brutal assults from bm. to me this is understandable retaliation.

i am rejecting most of the templates that black folks have insisted in using to analyse the back gender issues because it seeks to place equla responsibility on bm and bw's shoulders which is sheer unfairness because it ignores the power advantage bm enjoy over bw.

i feel black analysts are dishonest and are more about protecting bm than about giving a full and comprehensive picture. the dishonestly is clearly about cover up for bm brutality so that bw continue to be emotionally disarmed each time they try to orgnaise against bm terrorism.

BW perception that there is still some sort of brother and sister compact between us, exposes their juglars to bm like nothing else. indeed this notion of community is in reality a one way traffic in favour of bm.

Brenda said...

In the final analysis this has to be more about focusing on Black Women and not focusing on DBRBM.

When you get the life you want you will not really care about what Black Men think or do. I do not spend much of my day worrying about Black males as they bumble through life trying to make a place for themselves. DBRBM need to have a group lower than themselves. They are not community builders they are not even successful in building strong, stable families or successful careers. they have nothing because they are nothing. These men can not stand that Black Women work hard to make something of them selves and do achieve in school and in their careers. So they try to know the Black Women down by hitting her where the believe she is vulnerable. Her self- esteem and femininity.

Your term racio-misogyny is a good one. But now that we have a name now what? I have no intention of trying to change the hearts and minds of Black men who think like this. Our focus should be on Black women and expanding their options in life. DBRBM are lost causes and trying to engage them to change their hearts and minds puts us in the position of being mammies. I want no parts of that.

Vee said...

Hello ladies,
I am a bw, definitely not a DBR bw. I am definitely not attacking bw, nor your VRM essay I am simply wondering about the overall views and comments that I've been reading. They basically seem to be one-sided, although a few people acknowledged that women can also play a part. I also noted that some of the arguments against bm, can easily be applied to men of other ethnic backgrounds. Just because we do not often hear or possibly engage in discussions about wm and ww, it does not mean that it does not go on.

I just feel the need to say that sexism does not only affect women, although the general media will have you believe otherwise. Also some of the people posting comments make the distinction of DBR men while others do not, that is a little disturbing BUT I do understand the sentiment. That is to say, I've heard it often.

The term "damage beyond repair" is also kind of interesting because it offers no room for rehabilitation. There are many cases where I would pronounce some one DBR based on their actions. But when you look at society and examine the justice system you will find that sentencing or public perception has never been fair when concerning women and men. Men who rape underage girls are vilified and usually prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and perhaps brutally beaten in jail. While some women on the other hand . . . are allowed to explain their actions on television talk shows.

I say all this to say, I'm not trying to play Devil's advocate I just think fairness should be employed when exploring any social theory or phenomena. Sexism affects both women and men. Misogyny is definitely rampant in our community but misandry is not discussed nor explored.

Peace and respect, Vee, a bw fan and admirer.

^Anon, I do not intend to debate those numbers. I simply want to express that there are certain issues that are not discussed with balance. I provided a link to demonstrate that I am not making an unsubstantiated statement.

Anonymous said...


Indeed that stage has past, there is no reasoning with them anymore, they are hell bent on destroying us so there can be no reasoning


How do you know this? Why should anyone believe you?

Vee said...

Halima,
I'm not making an argument for reverse sexism, because yes, sexism is largely about a disregard for women BUT not exclusively.

Cool, your opinion, although I am not suggesting that bw and bm are equally culpable, but I will say that bw are not totally innocent. Correction, women in general are not totally innocent.

I agree your assessment with most black social experts, they do not provide a comprehensive picture based on their PowerPoint template but the imbalanced views (except some) that I am reading here also does not paint a progressive full picture.

Note, the template of power is rapidly changing. Women are out numbering men on collegiate campuses and in charge or major corporations. I imagine the template is being re-written as we speak. I will not and can not blame all the ills of VH1, MTV and BET on women because that is simply not fair but they are all ran by bw.

I hope you do understand that I am not trying to take a cheap shot just trying to present another view point as opposed to a counter view.

Trvlrgrl said...

vee said
But for the most part proving that DBR men are out to destroy bw and children can not be proved and sounds overly dramatic. Proving intent is very difficult.

I get your point vee but we're not talking about the legal criteria for proving intent which focuses on whether a person consciously holds the intent to cause harm.

Rather we're talking about something far, far more complicated. I don't even think these men who project hatred at us have the presence of mind to understand why they are doing it. We're talking about a psychological state of mind not a legal definition of culpability.

It is extremely common for people who harbor racist, sexist, misogynistic attitudes to not see their own racism and sexism. There's an entire strand of research on unconscious racism that talks about this...it's one of the major reasons racism and sexism persists to this day.

And again, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL BLACK MEN...we are talking about those who choose to behave badly. We are talking about our personal experiences of feeling hatred coming towards us from SOME black men. I don't understand why folks constantly want to pull out the "stop making generalizations" card. Of course it's not all, but to not acknowledge that there are SOME black men who harbor ill will towards black women is to ignore the truth.

As for the research that women are just as aggressive as men in their intimate relationships, that actually makes sense to me.

But the studies misses context and severity. We don't know the context in which women are aggressive...it could be they are in physically/emotionally abusive relationships and are responding in kind.

Also, typically a woman doesn't inflict the same amount of injury as a man. Here's a quote from the research you sited.

women are more likely than men to throw something at their partners, as well as slap, kick, bite, punch and hit with an object. Men were more likely than women to strangle, choke, or beat up their partner.

Throwing "something" and slapping or hitting sounds a lot less physically threatening then strangling, choking, and beating someone. Also, I can't help but wonder if "strangling" and "choking" a woman is psychologically connected to "silencing" her....

Anonymous said...

BW best start wrapping their brains around the concept of damaged BM being on the same level as the KKK because the streets are crawling with them.

-----------------------------

This sounds similar to propoganda used in the late 30s Germany against another unpopular group.

EmergingPhoenix said...

@ vee -

Why are you spending so much time, trying to point out that "other men do it to", that "women do it to"? Just own up to it, already, and stop deflecting. The truth of the matter is so called "well meaning" brothers stand right there and watch this behavior, and do nothing. All the while assuring themselves that she must have deserved it, or at least will do something to deserve it in the future. Let me direct you to a quote by Edmund Burke, that was also easily looked up with a quick google search:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

You remind yourself of that, the next time you come over here and tell us that not all bm are like that. The ones who stand by, are just as bad. Not only are you standing by, but you are excusing there behavior as "typical bad boy", behavior. Trying to make a case of it, as if this is up for debate. These things happen, and they are not "typical bad boy", behavior.

When you come to say, 'what can we do to neutralize these brothas who try so hard to attack and destroy the bf psyche', and acknowledge that there is hostility against bw by bm, I can't see how you can expect anyone here to think you give a damn about bw. The mere fact that this has to be spoken (or typed) is telling of the mindset that would bring you here to defend this behavior.

Halima said...

I agree your assessment with most black social experts, they do not provide a comprehensive picture based on their PowerPoint template but the imbalanced views (except some) that I am reading here also does not paint a progressive full picture.

What progressive full picture would satisfy your sense of balance? one that wants to place culpability of bw, on an equal footing as severe brutality meeted out to them by bm?

BM are altogether juvenile in their approach to analysing power relations between bw and bm and i feel that is because they want to protect they position as the only victims! They so covet that position that they are unable to engage in any honest dialogue about gender issues in the community.

Anonymous said...

It's only white women who get a pardon in the media when they abuse or kill their children-IF they fit the right requirements such as being heterosexual. Aileen Wuornos didn't get a pass when she killed all those men. There were no serial killer groupies writing her letters and wanting to marry her-that only happens to male serial killers.

All black women on the other hand are looked on as crack whores who are unsuited for motherhood if they commit a crime. The media nor the court system gives black women leniency so don't make a blanket statement that ALL women get a free pass for sexual or physical abuse. This reverse sexism is not nearly as pervasive as the other way around. Remember sexism against females is a global phenomena, there is no global phenomenon of male abuse by the hands of females. In certain parts of the world it is legally sanctioned for male relatives to kill their female members. Stop with your nonsense.

Great analysis, Halima.

Vee said...

^Emerging Pheonix,
I'm spending time because I actually care. Honestly, everything else you said is basically assumptions on what I do and don't do.

The solution to 'neutralize' them was already presented, Ignore them. But like I said the term DBR, leaves no room for anything else. I'm not trying to be anal but what I'm trying to say is that many of the sentiments do not invite an open discussion. It sounds imbalanced and divisive.
LOL at the word "neutralize!!"

Your views about my mindset is really not the point.

@Trvlgrl,
ditto, no need for the ALL CAPS. I am referring to the language of some of the posts, just the way that I am interpreting, and many men will. The research and its context goes deeper. The point was not about comparing the means of violence. I have no intentions of going tit-for-tat nor defending DBR bm, ignorant rappers, etc.

Here's some quick Vee background, in the past I never realized how wrong some of my views and maybe some actions were towards women until I decided to explore womens' studies out of curiosity. I read some books by bell hooks and some others writers. But more importantly I had some long discussions with some female friends. One of my friends admittedly would have never checked or challenged me, but she was happy that I brought up the subject with questions because she felt I needed to learn a whole lot, I still do.

Now I am not trying to paint myself as an enlightened guy or truly reformed -- I am far from it, just trying to learn and grow. Like you, I've seen misogyntic hatred manifest itself in horrible violence and very unkind words.

@ Halima,
Honest dialogue? OK. Reading comparisons to NAZIs, and KKK is not a little far-fetched. DBR bm have a collective agenda?!?

"Remember sexism against females is a global phenomena" Good point, True, true, true, yet many readers here are singling out bm. Obvioiusly I'm not justifying sexism, nor opposing your views. I guess I'm not allowed to say sexism affects us all. And bringing up any examples otherwise is a no-no.

Anyway, peace, I guess I will sit back and take note.

EmergingPhoenix said...

I just want to point something out to everyone. At one point vee says:

"Hello ladies,
I am a bw, definitely not a DBR bw. I am definitely not attacking bw, nor your VRM essay I am simply wondering about the overall views and comments that I've been reading."


Then later he says:

"Now I am not trying to paint myself as an enlightened guy or truly reformed..."

Which is it man, woman, or hermaphrodite? What I said is not an assumption of your behavior, it is an observation of the behavior I have seen in bm groups. Why do you internalize the things you read here? Is it that, it is applicable?

I am glad you like the word, I use that a lot when I am referring to people trying to artfully poison the conversation, dialogue, meeting, etc.

Trvlrgrl said...

Vee

The all caps were not just you. I'm not sure how long you've been following this cp
onversation but about every other post someone raises the "stop making generalizations" point. Didn't mean to be rude, just tired of the same ol same ol.

And I agree, some of the posts on here are way over the top...which is counterproductive

Aphrodite said...

"There are currently no legal ways to combat this because BW have not (and most likely will not for well known reasons) come together in a unified force to equate the sick, hateful, and self-hating behavior of DBR black "men" towards BW as hate law violations.


Animals, I mean "men" like the aforementioned population, are the SAME as Klansmen, Neo-Nazi's, and Skinheads."





Hi Anon! That is exactly what I was thinking in my head though, but you said it better! To put these assaults if you will - whether in the media or towards individual black women - if they meet certain criteria- for them to be classified as hate crimes! That is what they are. No matter the color or even gender of the perpetrator.




I read a lot of the previous posters comments and we seem to have similar experinces. These women are sweet and brave, but no one should endure this!





"AND THAT'S WHY IT'S CRUCIAL SISTAS CHOOSE THE BEST MEN TO MARRY AND FATHER THEIR CHILDREN."




I am getting this message loud and clear! Recently this has been the first time I have heard this, but it has really changed the way I think and feel about marriage and relationships.



And I hear you on avoiding DBR men. I have no intention of allowing them into my life or marrying and having children with one.

Aphrodite said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Vee said...

Oops I made a mistake with all of the acronyms running wild.
Answer: a straight bm, a regular cat. Can I be a person first though or must I be defined by race and gender? (I read that some where earlier today.)

Outside of personal quips, while I do not disagree* with the whole VRM issue my original point was simply pointing out the tone of some of the comments and they're not balance. Just my observation.

And I'm not going to engage in any character attacks. But that was cute.

I'm simply not well versed in all issues of sexism in American, the world and within the 'black' community.
Internalizing? nah it is really not that deep, I'm just trying to rap with you not trying to ruffle any feathers.
I thought it would be interesting to present my male observation, but apparently I am not equipped to engage in this particular discussion. Pun intended. That was artful but non-poisonous.

As an ^anonymous reader pointed out, some of the co-signed comments sound like propaganda.

It would be interesting to see the VRM explored further. Can the essay be presented without bias? How large is this segment of black men within the African-AMerican community. Can we say 50% or 90%? (I'm glad that some one mentioned that brothers from Africa and some of the Caribbean Islands have a completely different view-point.) When did this issue begin in the African-American experience? Is there a collective agenda? Is it just black men or do other men of different ethnicities have this issue? Did they have it in the past?

Just learning and presenting valid questions and viewpoints.

Aphrodite said...

Hi Halima!


"the problem is that we continue to see these men as 'brothers' somewhat , which gives them access to us emotionaly.

Instead we should put them in our mind and emotions where we place RACIST WHITE MEN and not just any racist wm but KKK because they are deliberate in their hatred of bw and their aim is to destroy us.

With racist wm we have some guard up, but with them we dont so they are potentially more dnagerous!"





Your point is taken! I think this has been the crux of my issues with many black men in my life. I think that black women are raised to have their guard up around non-black men, but as you stated with black men the guard is automatically lowered because of the supposed race kinship - for lack of a better phrase.



I think had I scrutinized many of the black men I was with I would have saved many hundreds of dollars that I have been conned out of as well as therapy bills from the emotional, physical, and sexual torture.


Thank you so much for this blog. It has been healing for me to really have words for my experiences and they provide a lot of clarity to prevent mistakes from my past from enveloping my future.

Aphrodite said...

"DBR bm have a collective agenda?!?"





I don't know if they are holding DBR bm meetings, but the effects of their collectively damaging actions on black women and children in the US can't be ignored.


I don't think you have to outline everything to see that generational harm has been and is being done.




"True, true, true, yet many readers here are singling out bm."


Most people are singling out black men I feel is because that is who we have had these experiences with. I can't speak for anyone else, but the majority of my VRM based experiences have not been with other groups of men in the global village - only the black ones.

Anonymous said...

Funny, I asked my black female wife if she felt a "wave of hatred "directed towards her by black men. She said NO (with a quizzical look on her face).

You all on this blog are some silly women. I will bet money none of you will get a marriage proposal in the next 10 years. lol After reading this blog and others for the last month, I haven't read about one sister getting a marriage proposal, let alone getting a date. You would think if you got a (white) man you would broadcast it loud and clear on this site.

How many white men do you really believe are out there ready to scoop you all up? Don't get it twisted, I think if the white man knew what was good for him he would get with a beautiful successful sister. However, he too, like many brothers have bought into society’s view of white female beauty supremacy.

Anonymous said...

Another thing ... I work in corporate America with these loveable, marriageable white men you speak so fondly of. On the outside these guys look great, but many of them have problems like all other men. These guys cheat, watch porn, etc. They probably get away with more cheating than black men because they have the means to get away with it (expense accounts).

Unfortunately marriage is on a downturn regardless of race, class, etc. I do blame men for low marriage rates and high divorce rates because of our excesses.

Anonymous said...

There are quite a few posters who are married to either black men or non-black men who participate on Halima and Evia's blog. You don't know what you're talking about. If you have read this blog and Evia's you would have read the part that black women need to train themselves to seek out quality men REGARDLESS of race.

AIMEE said...

I do not intend to debate those numbers. I simply want to express that there are certain issues that are not discussed with balance. I provided a link to demonstrate that I am not making an unsubstantiated statement.
___________________________________

You don't want to debate the numbers that you directed us all to review in support of YOUR arguments?

You don't want to debate the numbers because the numbers clearly reveal that you've fallen into the trap of a false equivalency. The rationales you're employing about "balance" are the same rationales that whites employ when complaining about the lack of "balance" on BET--while ignoring the lack of "balance" on 160 other stations that show us nothing but images of whites 24/7, but simply omit their racial focus from the station's characterization.

Similarly, it's easy to neutralize the impact of domestic violence against women by mischaracterizing a domestic assault as a "fight" in which both parties are equal participants. However, it is not possible to mischaracterize which party ends up dead 90% of the time.

The point is that black men and black women are not being apportioned equal blame as destructive forces in our community because they are NOT equally blameworthy, by any measure or criteria. It is DBRBM who overwhelmingly abandon and prey on the black community, and simply claiming that everyone is "equally" responsible does not make it so.

And while I understand the concerns of those who want to focus exclusively on BW "moving on" and forming healthy relationships, I think it is important that we acknowlege that "moving on" is a process.

If the average bw could simply wake up one day and say "gee--they're aren't many marriageable men in my community--I guess I should expand my dating horizons," then blogs like this wouldn't be necessary.

In order to achieve healthy relationships, BW need to learn to recognize what healthy relationships are not--and why the partners they thought they would and should have may not be viable. That inevitably requires an examination of the DBRBM.

I agree that DBRBM should not be the exclusive focus of our dialogue (though Halima, of course, is free to blog about whatever she wants). But I don't think that we can avoid the topic in order to avoid upsetting "brothas" who aren't used to BW viewing them critically, or because we just want to skip over the messiness and traipse off into our happy futures--that isn't the way that life works. Let's face it--the absence of critical analysis really hasn't done BM or BW a lot of good, has it?

Aphrodite said...

"Funny, I asked my black female wife if she felt a "wave of hatred "directed towards her by black men. She said NO (with a quizzical look on her face)."




Well, that is a good thing. It is good that there is one less bw who has been abused.

However, her positive experience doesn't negate or invalidate the bad experiences of others.


Also your wife has you, a man in her life, therefore other men in general will be wary of that and respect her boundaries just because they know they will have you to contend with.


Many single black women especially with all the missing daddies - don't have that cover of protection. I have seen it in action many times in my life where a screwball was trying something with me and all I had to do was call a male friend or relative and they back off.




"You all on this blog are some silly women. I will bet money none of you will get a marriage proposal in the next 10 years. lol After reading this blog and others for the last month, I haven't read about one sister getting a marriage proposal, let alone getting a date. You would think if you got a (white) man you would broadcast it loud and clear on this site."






I don't find healing black women silly. I don't find encouraging black women to value themselves silly either.

Do you find women in general silly?

Just because this blog doesn't operate similar to a mail order bride service doesn't mean it isn't producing results.

As a married man, I find it odd that you don't know how most women operate. Many women function differently than men. We can go out and conquer if need be, but many times we need to connect at an emotional level and talk things through before and during taking action.




I have been around nonblack men all my life it is just that I never considered them an option as far as dating or marriage. I have also been hit on and asked out by nonblack men, but it was fear and programming that stopped me.






"How many white men do you really believe are out there ready to scoop you all up? Don't get it twisted, I think if the white man knew what was good for him he would get with a beautiful successful sister. However, he too, like many brothers have bought into society’s view of white female beauty supremacy."



I don't understand why a married man is so interested in what single women are doing or not doing.


I am slowly changing my mind about this white female beauty crap.


I saw the same images that black men saw while growing up and non of them were of morris chestnut or denzel. They were all white men, but yet I never elevated a white man's physical beauty over a black man's and proclaimed they are better because their hair is straighter, or x, or y, or z ad infinitum.


So black men chosing non black women is simply that - a choice.


People make choices and just like I can question things and think for myself I am sure there are some white men out there who can do the same.


So I don't buy what you are selling at all.

Anonymous said...

anon 2.25
You all on this blog are some silly women. I will bet money none of you will get a marriage proposal in the next 10 years. lol After reading this blog and others for the last month, I haven't read about one sister getting a marriage proposal, let alone getting a date. You would think if you got a (white) man you would broadcast it loud and clear on this site.


To get a marriage proposal from the likes of you would be a fate worse than death lol!

Halima said...

Anonymous said...
It's only white women who get a pardon in the media when they abuse or kill their children-IF they fit the right requirements such as being heterosexual. Aileen Wuornos didn't get a pass when she killed all those men. There were no serial killer groupies writing her letters and wanting to marry her-that only happens to male serial killers.

All black women on the other hand are looked on as crack whores who are unsuited for motherhood if they commit a crime. The media nor the court system gives black women leniency so don't make a blanket statement that ALL women get a free pass for sexual or physical abuse.



I totally agree with this, bw get no leniency within or without the community. when bw committ a 'crime' the circumsatnces are never taken into account an unlike her white counterpart who can count on 'psychological reports' and extenuating circumstances, the full weight of the law falls on her. therefor there is danger in lumping bw and ww togther as in reciept of female privileges!

Rodrigo said...

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Ticklemepink said...

You all on this blog are some silly women. I will bet money none of you will get a marriage proposal in the next 10 years. lol After reading this blog and others for the last month, I haven't read about one sister getting a marriage proposal, let alone getting a date. You would think if you got a (white) man you would broadcast it loud and clear on this site.

Well I already have had on and Im 22 so you havent bet your house on it lol.

Its pretty obvious that you came to this Blog with a preconception, plus I know the guy who reccomended you because hes notorious for strongly opposing and stirring up IRR hate.

We are actually quite mature on here, the fact that we do/ have had/ knocked back IRR but we dont broadcast all the time it is actually a compliment. Maybe because your used to some BM IR going on about their girls skin colour all the time you're expecting to find it here.

Evia said...

It is DBRBM who overwhelmingly abandon and prey on the black community, and simply claiming that everyone is "equally" responsible does not make it so.

SO TRUE! This whole attempt to make it seem that the blame should be shared equally is such a crock!! There is ABSOLUTELY no comparison. Black women do NOT prey on other black females, black children or black males in the community anywhere near the same extent that black males do. This is so ridiculous to even try to go there. It's like comparing a paper cut to a butcher knife attack.

It just goes to show how desperate these DBRbm and their mammy-supporters are to defend them and cover us the massive destruction of black females and black children that takes place in almost any "inner city," "ghetto," "hood" or whatever anyone wants to call these places that are the most dangerous places on earth for black females and children. And sistas, if y'all talk to some of these social workers and get details about what's really going on, not many of us have the stomach to handle some of the depraved things these DBRbm are actually doing to the helpless and unprotected girl children!! Y'all don't even want to know. Even worse is how it's covered up and glossed over by others in those communities who are constantly trying to give these predators a pass.

Keep in mind that some of these predatory DBRbm males go to work everyday and when you encounter them, you have no idea who they really are. This is why you must carefully evaluate ALL men. I put all men to the SAME test. Any man you meet has a history and somebody knows it. Find his history. If they mistreated another woman, didn't support their other child or children, then you should assume he'll mistreat you the same way. Why not? AND/OR If he doesn't have a solid job or education, or credential that leads to gainful employment, or have a business that's producing a liveable income, why do you think that things are suddenly going to change? They're NOT. These are things he must PROVE or SHOW to you beyond any doubt because you have too much to lose to just take his word. You're betting your life and the life of your children on the words of a stranger.

And while I understand the concerns of those who want to focus exclusively on BW "moving on" and forming healthy relationships, I think it is important that we acknowlege that "moving on" is a process.

I agree. There are all kinds of sistas here. There just seems to be no place where bw can go to talk and heal without INTRUDERS barging in to try to get the attention focused on them. So to all of the intruders: get the f%&k out!!

Some of us are not engaged in healing, however, but we're here sitting with sistas who are trying to heal, trying to help to guide them through this. People do heal at different rates and in different ways. I, too, have been criticized for allowing bw to talk and share on my blog--or heal. Sometimes, I too get impatient with them, but at the end of the day, I know that talking and sharing are strong healing measures for women. It's extremely therapeutic. These sistas don't want to be in pain, and they are in pain because they weren't protected from DBRbm, weren't taught how to identify DBRbm, weren't shown how to stay away from them, AND most of all, these sistas were never told and taught that it's their RIGHT to consider loving any of the MANY OTHER MEN in the global village, many of which are interested in returning that love.

And if other people are bothered by this talk here--the pain expressed here, you ought to be!!--because many of y'all just stood around and allowed these sistas and their children to be ABUSED by these predators. You never told these sistas about AA of their options. A lot of y'all who come here and to my blog to defend these DBRbm know when the DBRbm are preying on these women and children and yet some of y'all are here STILL trying to excuse them, cut them slack. This is EXACTLY how it happens in these communities.

Halima, I, and others are saying to these sistas--YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS! Broaden your scope. There are many other men in the world who will love, cherish and adore you, just as you are. I want y'all to strive towards excellence, and we must all continue to do that for ourselves, but there are many men who will love you and want you just as you are!! You're beautiful just as you are. You are desirable as any other woman, or moreso--JUST AS YOU ARE, and if anyone tries to tell you different, then there's something wrong with that person--NOT YOU!

Yes, there are abusive men of all backgrounds in the world, but MOST AA women don't EVER come into contact with these non-AA men romantically. MOST AA women, up to this point, have been carefully taught not to even look at any other type of men in a romantic way. But some of y'all come here talking about all of these phantom non-AA abusive men. LOL!! This is such a childish scare tactic. Who are the men who ARE actually savaging sistas and black children? It's not the phantoms. It's these DBRbm. So y'all are just to too transparent! You're trying so hard to confuse the issue. This is PURE obfuscation. If y'all are that concerned about sistas being abused by these phantom non-AA men, why weren't and aren't you speaking out, warning sistas about the DBRbm who are the VERY REAL physical, sexual, and emotional brutalizers of these women and children?


If the average bw could simply wake up one day and say "gee--they're aren't many marriageable men in my community--I guess I should expand my dating horizons," then blogs like this wouldn't be necessary.

TOTALLY TRUE because there are ONLY a relatively few marriageable bm in a typical black enclave or out there period. They're as scarce as hen's teeth and the mammy supporters of the DBRbm know that. And I would think that these mammy supporters of the DBRbm would want the few marriageable bm for themselves. After all, many of them are among the 70% single. LOL!!

Anonymous said...

BW best start wrapping their brains around the concept of damaged BM being on the same level as the KKK because the streets are crawling with them.

-----------------------------

This sounds similar to propoganda used in the late 30s Germany against another unpopular group.


To even try comparing DBR BM in 2007 America who are viciously abusing and trampling on BW and children of their own FREE WILL to the INNOCENT persecuted Jews who were hated and envied because of their success in Nazi Germany is DISGUSTING.

Damaged Beyond Repair Black Men ARE doing as much damage - make that MORE damage these days - to BW and children in ghettos across this country than ANY Klansman.

There's nothing propagandist about this statement.

If it sounds "ugly" and "hateful" it's because the behavior IS.

And yes, Ghettos are crawling with them.

If the imagery of "crawling" is upsetting to some "brothas" and their mammy cheer squad because it brings to mind images of animals, try being considered a "bitch". A female dog.

Having "songs" written equating BW to female dogs written by "brothas" and being sold internationally.

THIS IS HATEFUL, SICK, UNNATURAL, UN-MASCULINE, DESTRUCTIVE, SELF-HATING, AND ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR.

Some bastards want to get bent out of shape by a so called "insinuation" expressed in a blog in cyberspace yet WON'T SAY SH!T about the filthy untrue terms and images that BW are being equated with online AND offline ON THE DAILY by DBR black "men".

Hypocritical f*ckers.

Yes men is in quotes because a real man would NEVER refer to a woman, especially a woman of his own racial/ethnic group - for no other reason than her being of his racial/ethnic group - as a "bitch" and encourage others to do the same. And a real man would never stand by as another man pillaged the femininity and humanity of a woman of his racial/ethnic group.

Only a lower life form would.

AIMEE said...

Evia said...

Some of us are not engaged in healing, however, but we're here sitting with sistas who are trying to heal, trying to help to guide them through this. People do heal at different rates and in different ways.
___________________________________

That's exactly the point I wanted to make Evia--thank you!

Any one of us could say "I've got the life I want--later for y'all." But I know there are other sisters out there who can benefit from expanding their understanding of what makes a man a compatible, appropriate mate--and if those individual women make better lives for themselves, our entire community will benefit.

We are all at different stages of our journeys. Some of us already have the relationships that we want; some us are still looking, but are already equipped with the right tools; and some of us are just only now starting to recognize what is possible for ourselves. I think sites like your's and Halima's can speak to all of these sisters, and I'm glad that you do.

Anonymous said...

I think that it is very disrespectful to refer to our beautiful black sisters as "mammies".

Anonymous said...

There is nothing "beautiful" about BW being masochist and needles self-sacrificers.

I think it is very disrespectful (and dangerous) to link the two.

There is however GREAT beauty in sisters knowing their value and worth. Not being ashamed of it, and refusing to settle for less in ALL areas of life.

Including one of the most important (if not THE most important) areas of life.

Relationships.

Anonymous said...

How many women end up dead at the hands of domestic partners vs. men?

Well this study in Houston concluded:

http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=NVGAD5PHVAT18J7WQRPFKSKXA5NGBRJ4&ID=63227

"When comparing the sex ratios of killing by racial/ethnic subgroups, black women were equally (or more) likely than black men to be the perpetrators of intimate domestic homicide."

Evia said...

I think that it is very disrespectful to refer to our beautiful black sisters as "mammies".

Thank you--you effing troll for giving me a chance to spell this out. LOL!!

This is just another attempt to OBFUSCATE or confuse. The term "mammy" is used here to mean a self-sacrificer. The typical mammy of yesteryear was a self-sacrificing, usually asexual, often overweight black woman who was ALWAYS there to meet the needs of other folks (white folks, black men, black children) and ignored her own needs. These sistas from yesteryear did NOT have a choice.

Many black women these days DO have a choice, but they're operating on automatic, and in doing so, they are just like those mammies of yesteryear. These days, these sistas continue to SELF-SACRIFICE themselves to meet the needs of others in the black community, meaning they put their own needs (love, meaningful companionship, health, fitness, knowledge of self, fulfilling sex, etc.)way down on the list or don't even put their needs on the list, and ALWAYS put the needs and wants of black men and the black community at the top of their list of priorities. These sistas don't take care of themselves emotionally or physically and this is why the health of so many bw is in a crisis state.

Being "mammies" is just why so many sistas keep on trying to "save the community" and "save our children," and defend these DBRbm while so many of a typical black man is just out there trying to "get HIS." He's not thinking about putting the needs or wants of any black woman or even his own children, let alone, "our children" or the black community at the top of any list or on his list at all. He's not thinking about defending or developing the black community at all. He leaves that job to black women. He's just out there looking to get "HIS." These DBRbm usually only stay around the black community to leech off it or the women for money, sex, shelter, drop their seed, etc, and naturally to call bw b's and ho's.

DBRbm are plaguing these black communities and we are going to CONTINUE talking about this plague here and sistas need to start more blogs and such to pound this message into the psyches of these unsuspecting females!! I just don't believe that most of these sistas KNOW that these men are DBRs when they sex them.

If you look around ANY black community, it's the black women who are talking CONSTANTLY about doing this, that, or the other for this one or that one or actually WORKING to do this or that in the church, the community, or their children who the vast majority are raising all alone. No one forced bm away from their children. No power on earth should be able THESE DAYS to separate a man from his children.

Yet when we advocate that sistas choose men who've shown that they're less likely to abandon their kids, all of these trolls rise up like the effing garbage they are to try to obfuscate. Sistas, let's just use their attempts to confuse as a teaching opportunity!! LOL!

Anonymous said...

"The disproportionate burden of fatal and nonfatal violence borne by black women has almost always been overshadowed by the toll violence has taken on black men. Black women were murdered at a rate more than three times higher than white women (3.64 per 100,000 versus 1.06 per 100,000)."

"Among those homicides of black females where the race of the offender was known (653 incidents), almost all of the homicides (96 percent) involved an offender of the same race."

http://www.vpc.org/studies/dv3two.htm

"When women were groped, fondled and assaulted in New York’s Central Park by mostly young black and Puerto Rican males a couple of years ago most observers chalked it up to male misbehavior toward women. But this is far too simple. Far to many young black males have become especially adept at acting out their frustrations at white society's denial of their "manhood" by adopting an exaggerated "tough guy" role. They swagger, boast, curse, fight and commit violent self-destructive acts. When black women refuse to be sexually submissive or are perceived as trying to control them, they become frequent targets of the violence. Black females were far more likely to be murdered by black males than white females by white males."

http://www.alternet.org/columnists
/story/13805/?page=2

Vee said...

http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=NVGAD5PHVAT18J7WQRPFKSKXA5NGBRJ4&ID=63227

"When comparing the sex ratios of killing by racial/ethnic subgroups, black women were equally (or more) likely than black men to be the perpetrators of intimate domestic homicide."


Thanks Anonymous.

I do not contend that women are equally at fault, but once again the language, the name calling and the accusations does not constructively help. I thought that the domestic violence and the majority of issues that VRM address was strictly a male dominated offense. ---- Research proves otherwise. Yes, bw are extremely vulnerable and susceptible to violence from bm, sisters really should do background checks! Find out what's going on in a guys home, who does he hang out with, etc. I would suggest an escort for the first date to be safe, but I'm told that is too old-fashioned.

Healing and understanding will come about through a constructive dialogue. Comparing contributions to the community does not address ill-behavior, neither will counting the stats, reports, ratios and figures. Most people are aware of the reports that we regularly see not the reports that tell a different story.

It would be one thing if the link provided by ^anon was an isolated case, but it definitely is not.

So, if I say the definition of sexism is disregard of gender as opposed to a definition that is exclusively concerning women and present the aforementioned link, I would say that adds some balance to the discussion and not confusion without rancor, name-calling.

Halima said...

"When comparing the sex ratios of killing by racial/ethnic subgroups, black women were equally (or more) likely than black men to be the perpetrators of intimate domestic homicide."

Vee you and annonymous are obviously ignorant, about the issue of domestic violence. Women kill their partners largely in self defence and after sustained psychological, physical and emotional abuse from their partners NOT as initiators and aggressors in the situation.

this is an established and well know fact except for bm of the likes of you who want to further debase bw and of course rationalise the evil and brutality of your fellow bm by portraying bw's actions on the same level.

this is inexcusable and if you have any shame you would bow out of this blog at this point!

Evia said...

Healing and understanding will come about through a constructive dialogue.

You're not getting it!! We're not trying to have a dialogue with DBRbm or their excusers or apologists. Most sistas who come to blogs such as this one and mine have moved on from DBRbm. They're trying to get away from them. They're trying to cleanse their system of them!! Don't you get it?!!! Lawd haf mercy!!

You're still stuck in the "nothing but an AA man" mode and think that's all there is in the world! This is why these sistas are in PAIN now!!

I hope that those folks who can't understand why so many sistas sacrifice all of their youth trying to find Mr. Right AA man will begin to glimpse why this happens. This is all that's presented to them!! This is almost like an abused woman escaping from her battering husband or boyfriend and folks saying, "Yes, but go back and patch things up with him!"

Sistas don't have to dialogue with them or about them, or go back or look back!! As we've said, there aren't nearly enough decent, marriageable AA bm who want to marry a bw for the large number of decent, marriageable bw. Some sistas, like me, are happy to leave the ones who are there for the sistas who just "gotta have an AA man."

Vee said...

Respectfully Halima,
That is not always the case concerning domestic abuse. It is not an absolute.

I am not rationalizing the evil nor the brutality in any way.

Peace.

Trvlrgrl said...

Funny, I asked my black female wife if she felt a "wave of hatred "directed towards her by black men. She said NO (with a quizzical look on her face).

I seriously question using your wife as some kind of expert on the experiences of black women. I mean, she is married to you after all.

I will say that for myself the more I have excelled personally and professionally, the more disrespect and anger I have received from black men. That's my experience.

For the life of me I don't understand why men such as yourself spend so much time reading interracial relationship blogs. I mean your married...why are you here?

If we're so silly and pointless and unmarrigable then what do you care? Sounds to me like you're worried that if more black women (like maybe your wife) figured out that they don't have to take any guff off a man just because we share the same skin color, you'd have to change your tune in order to get a woman.

Anonymous said...

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003687.html

"Overall, blacks were victimized by intimate partners at significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black women experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than whit women, and about 2.5 times the rate of women of other races. Black men experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white men and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races."

Anonymous said...

"Being "mammies" is just why so many sistas keep on trying to "save the community" and "save our children," and defend these DBRbm while so many of a typical black man is just out there trying to "get HIS." He's not thinking about putting the needs or wants of any black woman or even his own children, let alone, "our children" or the black community at the top of any list or on his list at all. He's not thinking about defending or developing the black community at all. He leaves that job to black women. He's just out there looking to get "HIS." These DBRbm usually only stay around the black community to leech off it or the women for money, sex, shelter, drop their seed, etc, and naturally to call bw b's and ho's."

SO true.

"If you look around ANY black community, it's the black women who are talking CONSTANTLY about doing this, that, or the other for this one or that one or actually WORKING to do this or that in the church, the community, or their children who the vast majority are raising all alone. No one forced bm away from their children. No power on earth should be able THESE DAYS to separate a man from his children."

Good observation.

Now we'll continue to have trolls on patrol checking to make sure we're not talking about all BM when we describe the behavior of those who are clearly damaged and unjustifiably inflicting pain on BW and black children.

Trolls who crawl out of the woodwork to spew their filth and hatred of black womanhood and promote the lie that "nobody - especially WM - want BW for serious relationships".

YET, I have not ONCE read from one troll who actually addresses the points/observations that have eloquently been made.

NOT ONE who can refute this clearly observable truth.

So they don't even try. They punk out and avoid this issue all together and try to obfuscate the problem with extraneous information.

On the other-hand, sane self-loving BW who acknowledge these ugly truths about the "community", know EXACTLY what to do to prevent themselves from being victims.

Halima said...

Sistas don't have to dialogue with them or about them, or go back or look back!!

I dont know why some folks cant understand that its not bw obligation to clean up bm and heal them of anything.

dont these folks recognise that bw have only one life which would be better spent pursuing her own happiness?

what right have we to demand that bw spend precious time helping out full grown men who should take care of their own selves in the first place!

Anonymous said...

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003687.
html

"Overall, blacks were victimized by intimate partners at significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black women experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than whit women, and about 2.5 times the rate of women of other races. Black men experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white men and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races."

Halima said...

"Vee you and annonymous are obviously ignorant, about the issue of domestic violence. Women kill their partners largely in self defence and after sustained psychological, physical and emotional abuse from their partners NOT as initiators and aggressors in the situation.

this is an established and well know fact except for bm of the likes of you who want to further debase bw and of course rationalise the evil and brutality of your fellow bm by portraying bw's actions on the same level.

this is inexcusable and if you have any shame you would bow out of this blog at this point!"


Halima, you should know good and well by now that those who make excuses for DBR BM and their antics (including violence) have no shame.

They are on the same level as DBR BM themselves. So how could they have shame?

What these statics clearly show is BW should stay as far away from DBR BM as possible. It's an issue of life and death. And BW certainly shouldn't be having any children by them.

BW and DBR BM are a LETHAL and sometimes deadly combination.

BW and DBR BM obviously bring out the worst in each other and should therefor separate permanently as quickly as possible.

Why would a sista needlessly put her very life at higher risk when she doesn't have too?

Halima said...

"Overall, blacks were victimized by intimate partners at significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black women experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than whit women, and about 2.5 times the rate of women of other races. Black men experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white men and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races."

Yes dear as i was explaining and you failed to grasp (but simply continued to cut and paste), womens violence towards men is strongly correlated to self defence and 'snapping' under continuous abuse from their male partners. So the 62% rate says so much about the nature of BM when compared to the nature of WM than anything else!

nice try though!

Anonymous said...

hamila said
"Women kill their partners largely in self defence and after sustained psychological, physical and emotional abuse from their partners NOT as initiators and aggressors in the situation."

Key on the parts in bold:

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/batteredstats.php

Another commonly accepted "truth" about domestic violence is that 95% of the time, women are the victims and men the perpetrators. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Family Violence Survey--as well as numerous other studies--have found that men are just as likely to be the victims of domestic violence as women. But aren't these women just defending themselves against their more violent partners? Straus and Gelles found that among couples reporting violence, the man struck the first blow in 27% of cases; the woman in 24%. The rest of the time, the violence was mutual, with both partners brawling. The results were the same even when the most severe episodes of violence were analyzed. They were also the same when only the woman's version of the events was considered.

Even more interesting are Straus' findings, released earlier this month, that men's violence against women--even as reported by women—has dropped 43% between 1985 and 1992. Over this same period, in contrast, assaults by women against men increased by about 28%. Straus concludes that "part of the reason may be that there has been no effort to condemn assault by wives parallel to the effort to condemn assaults by husbands."

Anonymous said...

Here is another interesting point. Key on the part in bold:

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/batteredstats.php

In a very small number of tragic cases, abusive men do kill their partners. But women aren't the only ones killed in domestic disputes. A Justice Department study released earlier this month showed that 41 percent of spousal murder victims were male. Battered women's advocates claim that those women who kill their husbands do so only out of self-defense. But in an extensive study of women imprisoned for murder, Coramae Richey Mann, a researcher at the Department of Criminal Justice, Indiana University/Bloomington found that only 59% claimed self-defense and that 30% had previously been arrested for violent crimes.

AIMEE said...

Vee said...

So, if I say the definition of sexism is disregard of gender as opposed to a definition that is exclusively concerning women and present the aforementioned link, I would say that adds some balance to the discussion and not confusion without rancor, name-calling.
___________________________________

The problem is that the definition of sexism is not "disregard of gender." Sexism is "the belief that one sex (usually the male) is naturally superior to the other and should dominate most important areas of political, economic, and social life." Sexist discrimination has acted to deny opportunities to women as well as to inflict disproportionate abuse and exploitation on women.

Vee, I know that BM are not used to be challenged by BW on their discriminatory practices and beliefs towards BW--you are more used to standing by us calling out WM on THEIR oppressive actions.

But just as we cannot have a dialogue with white people about racism premised on the false foundation that "everyone is racist," we cannot have a dialogue about sexism premised on the false foundation that "everyone is sexist." This is to confuse the impact of attitude with the impact of power, as well to ignore why certain attitudes have evolved.

As Malcom X used to repeatedly point out, if my grandfather is snake-bitten, and my father is snake-bitten, and I tell my child to beware of snakes, what does that snake look like calling me a racist?

In the same way, to look at the history of BM abusing, exploiting, degrading and abandoning BW and black children, and then insist that there is anything approaching "balance" in terms of the internal damage done to the community by the men and women of our community is simply dishonest.

Above all, it shows you are again doing what BM so often do when BW come together to empower each other--attempting to put yourself at the center of the dialogue. The point is this isn't about you. Our focus is here is on helping sisters recognize their own worth and entitlement to healthy, positive relationships with worthy men. DBRBM are discussed to help sisters identify such males, and to understand why they should not feel obligated to settle for interactions with such males out of a misguided sense of racial "loyalty."

Halima said...

Anonymous said...
hamila said
"Women kill their partners largely in self defence and after sustained psychological, physical and emotional abuse from their partners NOT as initiators and aggressors in the situation."

Key on the parts in bold:

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/batteredstats.php

Another commonly accepted "truth" about domestic violence is that 95% of the time, women are the victims and men the perpetrators. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Family Violence Survey--as well as numerous other studies--have found that men are just as likely to be the victims of domestic violence as women. But aren't these women just defending themselves against their more violent partners? Straus and Gelles found that among couples reporting violence, the man struck the first blow in 27% of cases; the woman in 24%. The rest of the time, the violence was mutual, with both partners brawling. The results were the same even when the most severe episodes of violence were analyzed. They were also the same when only the woman's version of the events was considered.

Even more interesting are Straus' findings, released earlier this month, that men's violence against women--even as reported by women—has dropped 43% between 1985 and 1992. Over this same period, in contrast, assaults by women against men increased by about 28%. Straus concludes that "part of the reason may be that there has been no effort to condemn assault by wives parallel to the effort to condemn assaults by husbands."


Anonymous you are just cutting and pasting stats all over the place. You flit from general stats to AA stats and then back to general, so we have no consistent arguement for what pertains to BW and BM.

if you are hoping to question accepted wisdom on Domestic violence fair enough, but you are going to have to go further than link to websites that have a male-parent agenda and one off studies from indiana.

if you hve an argument to make in conjunction to the links and stats you are presenting then do so, or i will have to delete them for clogging up this discussion.

Trvlrgrl said...

aimee

AMEN!

Halima said...

Above all, it shows you are again doing what BM so often do when BW come together to empower each other--attempting to put yourself at the center of the dialogue.

Aimee this is so KEY like you never believe. BM have become so used to being the centre of every discussion that they feel so under threat, when women want to talk about their lives and the way forward.

they come there with the aim of controlling and redirecting the discussion to focus on themselves, even under the pretence that we are healing etc.

it just shows you how catered to men have become, that they feel a sense of outrage when women want to centre on themselves for a change!

Anonymous said...

I think that the studies speak for themselves. You don't want black women to have ANY blame in the current situation, yet I show how black women contribute significantly to it and you threaten deletion. I think that it is clear that black women, just like black men, tend to be more violent compared to their respective genders in the white community.

You state that the 62% higher rate of black men being the victims of domestic violence than white men reflects on black men, yet wouldn't that mean there should be a 62% higher rate of black women being such victims compared to white women? Instead, you have black women being 35% higher rate than white women. This should reflect on the nature of black women compared to white women.

Evia said...

Each bw who's reading this exchange with these Trolls knows that they trying to confuse, but by their very actions, they're showing how desperate they are to keep bw asleep and in the box. WOW! It just goes to show how valuable bw are because these troll DBRbm parasites are trying to cling on with all their might.

Sistas, these trolls are making their strongest arguments here, so make note of their little wienie points LOL! so that you can prepare to counter them when these same points pop up on other blogs and boards. They're showing us all they've got and they've got NOTHING! LOL!! Just imagine how so many bw have been kept in the box all of these years and this is all these DBRbm had. OMG!! I'm just shaking in my shoes--laughing!!!

Nobody in their right mind is going to believe that any typical bw can beat down these typical mammoth sized bm. Yeah, right! We've got em all terrified that we gon whip their azzes. LOL!!! Halima, I don't know about in the UK, but some of these lardbellies are humongous here in the U.S.and here they are claiming we've got them scared of us!! Pretty soon, they going to be claiming that their black kids beat them up and chased them out of the house and act like that's why they've abandoned their children. That's as believable as this other tripe.

Tori C said...

Hello! My name is Tori and I am new to your blog!
I enjoyed reading this entry and look forward to getting to know more about you and everyone thru your blogs..
Please stop by mine if you have a moment and say hi

Tori

Evia said...

You state that the 62% higher rate of black men being the victims of domestic violence than white men reflects on black men, yet wouldn't that mean there should be a 62% higher rate of black women being such victims compared to white women? Instead, you have black women being 35% higher rate than white women. This should reflect on the nature of black women compared to white women.

This is sounding SO MUCH like that DBRbm I mentioned on my blog, "Yellamon" aka MF aka Michael Fisher. I could cut and paste some excerpts from some of his posts to my private e-mailbox that sound almost identical to this. This is where he begins to elevate white women and tell us how wonderful they are compared to black women.

Y'all, he's running from me now. He can't handle my responses to his messages but he continues to e-mail me privately. He's a real weak wienie. He set up his e-mailbox so that my responses to his rants bounce back. This is a typical DBRbm chicken who can't handle a sista whereas my white husband husband can dialogue with me without running away. LOL!!

In real life, he'd probably want to take a swing at me right about now. But I'd be one of those sistas cited in those stats too because I don't take stuff from wienies!!

Halima said...

I think that the studies speak for themselves. You don't want black women to have ANY blame in the current situation, yet I show how black women contribute significantly to it and you threaten deletion. I think that it is clear that black women, just like black men, tend to be more violent compared to their respective genders in the white community.

You state that the 62% higher rate of black men being the victims of domestic violence than white men reflects on black men, yet wouldn't that mean there should be a 62% higher rate of black women being such victims compared to white women? Instead, you have black women being 35% higher rate than white women. This should reflect on the nature of black women compared to white women.


No the last studies do not speak for themselves because they are not national studies as the previous ones, they are derived from indiana and links are from a website devoted to defending fathers rights. Nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that we will have to consider the studies with suspicion, since they could be parts of a study which aspects have been occluded.

I dont think the point here is to rate the violence levels of bw and bm with respect to the rest of the universe instead we have put a focus on the black community and devastation and violence being wrought against its most vulnerable members to which bm overwhelmingly contribute.

so bw rates of DV towards bm are higher than ww towards wm, it could mean anything from the fact that ww dont fight back (possibly because they can depend on the law much more effectively), to the fact that bw are more grieved by bm. so stats mean nothing without explanation notes.

but like i said, since you are so bent on tit for tat point scoring and also with the express purpose of tarnishing bw even the more, its no wonder why you missed the point of th whole discussion.

Anonymous said...

Nobody in their right mind is going to believe that any typical bw can beat down these typical mammoth sized bm. Yeah, right! We've got em all terrified that we gon whip their azzes. LOL!!!

Hi Evia. You do realize that women are more than three times as likely as men to use weapons in domestic violence. A gun, knife, or pipe will take down the largest of men.

Halima said...

Hi Evia. You do realize that women are more than three times as likely as men to use weapons in domestic violence. A gun, knife, or pipe ...

Yes because logic would suggest they have to in a sitaution of violent conflict with a man!

Now if you dont have anything more to say than bw are more violent than bm and any other person in the universe then prepare to be deleted!

Anonymous said...

Pretty soon, they going to be claiming that their black kids beat them up and chased them out of the house and act like that's why they've abandoned their children. That's as believable as this other tripe.

ROFLMAO! TELL ME ABOUT IT! They're just sorry...

Evia said...

Hi Evia. You do realize that women are more than three times as likely as men to use weapons in domestic violence. A gun, knife, or pipe will take down the largest of men.

Like I said, they're acting like bw have them so terrified!! Yet some of them will claim that wm are so scared of them and not bw and that this is why we're hired and/or promoted in the corporate area.

I mean, come on! Which is it?

Maybe bw have become a superpower and we didn't even even know it! LOL!

I AM DONE said...

The women sit here and point out specific incidents they have witnessed or experienced. These things are tangible and can not be refuted. Nietzsche himself could not explain away the reality, and would probably tend to lean towards the idea that bw should then avoid DBR BM. But the reality is they exist, and they will find you, make a case of their well-being and then turn on you.

The men sit here and throw out theory and hypothesis, and dredge up articles again citing theory and hypothesis to support their theory and hypothesis. They site statistics put together by white society, who, even within the context of the statistic outrightly say there is more underlying issues that they are not familiar with. All the while these bm, sit here trying to explain away the realities of these bw's situation. These men prbably don't even date bw. they probably mistreat and discriminate against bw in the way that has been brought up here time and time again.

I am sitting at my desk crying, b/c this is truly ridiculous. I had a shitty start to my day, and an even shittier blog experience. Seriously, I AM SITTING AT MY DESK CRYING OVER THE SHIT I AM READING HERE. Over the way the dialogue has transpired, about how these bw are trying to reason with the unreasonable. At this point I am scared of black men, and I may never date another one. Because if it takes this much to convince you to respect me, then something is truly wrong with you. At this point, I realize no other man will treat me with respect, thanks to these dbr bm drilling into my skull, and highlighting the filthiest things ever said by men of other races.

I have been reading this blog and other like it for awhile. I am a passionate and sensual person. I am devoted and loyal to those who are devoted and loyal to me. At this point, I realize that no one will honor or respect these things in me, b/c my skin protects me from the sun, and my hair is the thickest and curliest hair known to man. If that is the case, I am done. I don't want to compete in your rat race, and I don't want to share my soul with any of you!

Anonymous said...

Now we'll continue to have trolls on patrol checking to make sure we're not talking about all BM when we describe the behavior of those who are clearly damaged and unjustifiably inflicting pain on BW and black children.

Trolls who crawl out of the woodwork to spew their filth and hatred of black womanhood and promote the lie that "nobody - especially WM - want BW for serious relationships".


And those trolls who love to bitch about statistics.

The ONLY statistic I need to know is that roughly half of all murders in the US are carried out by DBR BM. When BM are a minority in this country.

Any sista needlessly relegating herself (romantically speaking) to this population is a FOOL. And a fool who's days may very well be numbered.

Phoenix_Sun said...

i am done,

Do not give up, ever! I can empathize with you because I too would cry over the frustration at the level of hatred being thrown my way. Whether that hatred was coming from my personal relationships to how I was being treated when I stepped outside my house.

My breakdown occurred when I was nineteen, I couldn't take it anymore. One black male stalked me (he was one of many) in my neighborhood, taunting me that I was a dyke because I wouldn't give his filthy ass the time of day. He physically assaulted me with a traffic nose cone and it hit me right in the face with full force. This happened two months after I was raped by a stranger at knifepoint. I picked up that nose cone and chased this m**therf**ker down the street like a wild woman. He was scared as hell because he thought I would just cower. He was a big guy, tall and very overweight. His fat ass jumped on his bicycle and peddled for his life. I decided I was never going to be a victim again from these assholes.

This made me work hard and although I was sidetracked taking care of my terminally ill mother, I never kept my eyes off the prize. I knew there had to be a better life than this. Please get a support system who have your best interest at heart. There are people who will cherish you and will not take advantage of your goodness.

If you want to talk please email me at jazine@readerville.com.

Anonymous said...

Any sista needlessly relegating herself (romantically speaking) to this population is a FOOL. And a fool who's days may very well be numbered.

Around 700 black women are killed nationwide by intimates annually. You're working with 53,000 to 1 odds of not being killed by a black man that you are intimate with.

Felicia said...

Phoenix_sun,

I just want to say I'm sorry you've had those horrible experiences. You are a brave, strong and beautiful soul and I agree 100% with the advice you gave i am done.

Black women, women in general, Hell PEOPLE should NEVER give up.

I don't care what they've been through.

Where there is life, there is hope.

And where there is hope, there is a chance at a brighter future.

Anonymous said...

BW best start wrapping their brains around the concept of damaged BM being on the same level as the KKK because the streets are crawling with them.


Do you honestly believe this? What evidence do you have to prove this?

I have even asked the author of the blog how has a white man made her life better? It seems she fosters some deep hatred for black men and does not talk on what makes white men 'better'.

I know of white women who went through crap with white men. How and why do any of you feel a white man will never cheat, steal your money, molest your kids, etc

Anonymous said...

Around 700 black women are killed nationwide by intimates annually. You're working with 53,000 to 1 odds of not being killed by a black man that you are intimate with.

The odds are increased or decreased depending on the TYPE of black man a black woman is intimately involved with.

If a woman regardless of "race" is unable to distinguish between positive and negative men, her likelihood of being the victim of abuse or murder by an intimate increases.

That's why it's vital that BW learn the difference between the two, and vow to stay away from those most likely to cause them physical harm.

BW's chances of attracting a positive, loving, non abusive mate naturally increase when they start looking in the GLOBAL village instead of restricting themselves solely to the black community.

This is common sense. It's ALL about actions and what kind of mindset a man has.

"Race"/color should be irrelevant.

The fact that white woman are safer around your average white man than black women are around your average black man cannot (and should not) be glossed over.

Evia said...

I am done--Please "Never give up" because this means those DBRbm win. They would be happy that they've finished off another sista. They don't just finish us off physically, they kill many, many more sistas emotionally and spiritually, and that's the point of all of their venom.

Just take some time and think about some of this and you'll come back. Remember, you always win when you fight back because at the very least, you KEEP your self-respect and that's THE biggie. As long as you have your self respect, you can fight forever and therefore self respect is worth fighting for down to your last gasp.

mekare said...

"Mekare, if I'm interpreting you correctly, you're saying that you'd prefer that blogs like Halima's and mine should be focusing on topics that would move those black women who get it more directly towards living fulfilling lives? Meeting nonblack men? Or what exactly are you saying??"

I read your message Evia. When I wrote that post, my main concern was whether this forum was going to be overrun by anonymous posters who leave their droppings all over the forum. Not because I have a "forget you if you don't get it" attitude. Black women still have to live and I was just concerned that the message would get lost.

I would like to see posts that talk about moving forward. For example, now that you understand what you are dealing with, what’s next? How do you deal with your various feelings?

Posts that discuss strategies on how to meet non-black partners and screen them. How to judge them. What should be expected and what is unrealistic. What do to do if the subject of DBM’s comes up in the relationship?

mekare said...

"Remember, you always win when you fight back because at the very least, you KEEP your self-respect and that's THE biggie"

Now that makes a lot of sense.

Anonymous said...

Around 700 black women are killed nationwide by intimates annually. You're working with 53,000 to 1 odds of not being killed by a black man that you are intimate with.

THAT'S 700 TOO MANY.

Anonymous said...

Take a look at this...(smh)

Lots of hate on black women...mostly by black men.


http://www.topix.net/forum/afam

Trvlrgrl said...

Phoenix_sun

I found your story both heart wrenching and inspiring. You aren't just surviving, you're thriving and that is an amazing accomplishment considering the challenges you've had to face.

When the anon trolls hanging around here, busily policing our conversation to make sure we're not unfairly tarring all black men hear your story, I can't help but wonder how they can't be moved.

All you "down brothers" out there who post about how you support black women, understand our plight, yada, yada, yada, can't find the wherewithal to offer words of encouragement to a sister who's been through some serious stuff, yet you want to post multiple paragraphs citing some stupid statistics, arguing about "making generalizations", and defending the indefensible behavior of your brethern.

Your silence speaks volumes.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

BW best start wrapping their brains around the concept of damaged BM being on the same level as the KKK because the streets are crawling with them.


Do you honestly believe this? What evidence do you have to prove this?


Virtually all black female murder victims are killed by DBRBM. Virtually all black female rape victims are raped by DBRBM. Virtually all BW abandoned by their mates are abandoned by DBRBM. Virtually all black children abandoned by their fathers have been abandoned by DBRBM.

Now--do you honestly believe that the KKK presents a greater danger to the black community generally, and black women in particular, than DBRBM?

I have even asked the author of the blog how has a white man made her life better? It seems she fosters some deep hatred for black men and does not talk on what makes white men 'better'.

White men don't make your life better. What makes your life better is choosing a mate based on the quality of his character, and rejecting men who make your life worse.

Phoenix_Sun said...

Thank you for your words of support Felicia and Trvlrgrl. I just hope by telling my story I can help another sista out there who wants to give up on life because the treacherous few who get off on breaking a person's mind, body, and soul.

I will say in my experience black men have not been supportive, they downplay my assault and make tons of excuses for these black men. "Oh the brothers have it harder." "It's white racism that makes black men become animals. You have to be understanding." "By telling your story you're just playing into the white man's hands." I could write a book of the many excuses I have heard all my life about black men from both black men and black women.

These negative anons who come to engage in tit for tat are just desperate. They are the ones who want women like myself to shut up about black female misogyny that runs rampant in black communities. I'm tired of this type of diversion tactic, always being told that it is not as bad as it seems. The pathological preoccupation with protecting black men's feelings even at the expense of black women and children is maddening. The good thing is that more and more black women are waking up. As more of us do, expect the attacks to start coming from all fronts. The negative comments here are going to look like child's play as more women refuse to be a victim.

This is just the beginning.

Halima said...

Phoenix thanks for sharing, you are indeed a victor over your situation! God bless

Halima said...

I am done, please dont give up hope. Sisters here have your back and you can find love an affection once you decide on a sensible strategy!

u can drop me an email (see sidebar for email address)

Anonymous said...

Let me get this straight.. bw are not supposed to get with white or other nonblack men because those men abused the women in their group. but we are supposed to stick with bm who are the overwhelming majority of rapists, stalkers, batterers, etc. of black women?

Does this make sense?

If I can't be with a man who abuses women of other groups, wtf would i want to be with a man that abuses the women of my group?

So I guess it's a zero sum game where we should be happy to be abused as long as it's by a black man.

Anonymous said...

If it is one thing I hate more then a DBR Bm is a DBR statistic whoring BM. It is funny because these stats are compiled by white people, in particular white men.
And these trolls always yelp and carry on the loudest when the stats are about black male intelligence (or lack thereof), imprisonment rates, drug abuse, job stats, economics and everything else that shows the black man as inferior to everyone other race of men in the world. Yet they always want to use the stats of da debil wm against black women. I guess the enemy of your enemy is your friend.

Halima, the new term is fitting and appropriate. We need to spread the word. I think BW have always been afraid to air BM's and the "black communities" dirty little secrets to the larger society, but in fact I think the larger world almost always knew the pathology of black males because around the world, as soon as they get 2 pennies to rub together everyone is suprised if a "successful BM" DOESN'T marry non-black.

We need to stop acting like we are the last guardian against the biggest secret in the world - because it ain't no secret how DBR bm view you. They haven't been afraid or ashamed to tell the world all of our alleged flaws. We need to take it to the streets, unyoke ourselves from bm and their issues and become our own group seperate and apart from BM, which focuses solely on our own needs and desires.

-Prettyislandgirl

Anonymous said...

Wow, I have never read anything like this blog.
Just for disclosure purposes, I am a married bm(to a bw), and we have children.
I mean, I have never read or experienced such "hate" for bm coming from other bw in my life. The dehumnanizing way that bm are referred to and thought of on here is very disturbing.
While I TRULY believe that bw SHOULD be treated better by bm collectively, while I do think that bm as a group through our chasing of sex, do hurt bw and children, while I do think that bm often don't place the issues of bw to the forefront as we should, there has to be "some" room to recognize reality as it relates to bn. I am not even going to get into the "we are all not like that" discussion. What I am getting at is that in your zeal at pointing out how bm FAIL bw, there has to be acknowledgement that RIGHT NOW if a bw experiences "love" it more than likely comes from US(bm). We have moms, sisters, daughters, aunts, friends, etc that WE LOVE. On here that fact is ignored to make it seem like there is no connection between bm and bw outside of abusive romantic relationships.
I fear that this blog, although maybe started with good intentions, will become just another anti-black webpage. I think that many of you are closing yourself off to the possibility of loving a bm, and want OTHER bw to follow in that path. I don't see an openess to ANY man. I see bm in you alls eyes as being defective, mean, a liar, an abuser MERELY because he has brown skin. That attitude can't be healthy or helpful to bw as a whole.

-Avid Reader said...

Wow, I have never read anything like this blog.
Just for disclosure purposes, I am a married bm(to a bw), and we have children.
I mean, I have never read or experienced such "hate" for bm coming from other bw in my life.

It's unfortunate that you can't/don't separate yourself - a supposedly "good brotha" - from those who's sole intention it seems is to cause harm to BW and black children.

And some blacks - specifically BM - claim "all white folks view us in the same negative manner." Well.... What are they (and others) to think when "good BM" as yourself, voluntarily align yourselves with the bad?


The dehumnanizing way that bm are referred to and thought of on here is very disturbing.

The dehumanizing way that DAMAGED BEYOND REPAIR BM are referred to is completely appropriate and justified. What's odd, is how their behavior doesn't disturb MORE black people. Specifically BM. Since homicide is the 5th leading cause of death for ya'll.

While I TRULY believe that bw SHOULD be treated better by bm collectively, while I do think that bm as a group through our chasing of sex, do hurt bw and children, while I do think that bm often don't place the issues of bw to the forefront as we should, there has to be "some" room to recognize reality as it relates to bn.

That's what we're all about at this blog. Reality. And it is certainly being recognized here.

I am not even going to get into the "we are all not like that" discussion. What I am getting at is that in your zeal at pointing out how bm FAIL bw, there has to be acknowledgment that RIGHT NOW if a bw experiences "love" it more than likely comes from US(bm).

ALL BM HAVE NOT failed BW. Many of the commentors at this blog (at least it's true in my case) come from LOVING two parent black households.

My white husband exemplifies the love I saw expressed growing up. An earlier anon said it best.

"White men don't make your life better. What makes your life better is choosing a mate based on the quality of his character, and rejecting men who make your life worse."

It's that simple. And it's good advice for women in general. Not just BW. Look INSIDE instead of concentrating so much on the OUTSIDE.


We have moms, sisters, daughters, aunts, friends, etc that WE LOVE. On here that fact is ignored to make it seem like there is no connection between bm and bw outside of abusive romantic relationships.

I don't think it's being ignored, it's just that single BW of marriage and childbearing age aren't romantically interested in their sons, brothers, uncles, friends, etc... That's find and dandy that BW's relatives and friends love them. THAT'S AS IT SHOULD BE. This is normal human behavior that shouldn't even be brought into this discussion. If BM are looking for a pat on the back for loving their moms, sisters, daughters, aunts, and friends, IT'S NOT COMING.

Because this is expected normal human behavior that a non-black man wouldn't even mention.


I fear that this blog, although maybe started with good intentions, will become just another anti-black webpage. I think that many of you are closing yourself off to the possibility of loving a bm, and want OTHER bw to follow in that path.

There are PLENTY of actual anti-black web-pages (and specifically anti-black female web-pages) littering the internet. Take your "concern" to them.

I don't see an openess to ANY man.

Then YOU are blind, deaf, and dumb.

I see bm in you alls eyes as being defective, mean, a liar, an abuser MERELY because he has brown skin. That attitude can't be healthy or helpful to bw as a whole.

Again, you're seeing what you want to see. DBR BM have proven themselves to be defective, mean spirited, cruel and abusive by their negative and misogynistic behavior. It has absolutely nothing to do with color.

-Avid Reader

Phoenix_Sun said...

Good points, Avid Reader. The truth always hurts and the black men who come on here are reading experiences that make them uncomfortable. Because of their own fears and insecurities they don't want to listen to what so many bw have gone through. Instead they try to deflect with 'you have so much hatred for bm'. Not one ounce of empathy and kindness to their fellow sistas who have endured horrible abuse. Just a whole lot of defensiveness. They don't even have the decency to acknowledge someone's pain. To do that is to be human, not black or white, etc. The fact it has not been shown by them speaks volumes.

Anonymous said...

It's unfortunate that you can't/don't separate yourself - a supposedly "good brotha" - from those who's sole intention it seems is to cause harm to BW and black children.

And some blacks - specifically BM - claim "all white folks view us in the same negative manner." Well.... What are they (and others) to think when "good BM" as yourself, voluntarily align yourselves with the bad?

My words: How have I aligned myself with the “bad”? I recognize a persistent reality to demonize bm and bw in this world, that can not be denied, and OFTENTIMES that dehumanization is done under the guise of telling the “truth” about xyz as it concerns black people. Clearly, you can see how that could be a point of concern for black people. The very nature of this blog is bw seeking out non black partners, in the discussion of how bw do that bm and the black community are being associated with MANY pathological behaviors that simply don’t reflect reality. I am against bm abusing bw in cyberspace and more importantly real life, but you all aren’t speaking about some “small segment of abusive bm”. You all are speaking as if abuse of bw is the NORM with bm, as if hatred of bw is the NORM with bm, and that the RARITY is a bm who actually has any concern for bw. Of course I disagree with that characterization.

The dehumanizing way that DAMAGED BEYOND REPAIR BM are referred to is completely appropriate and justified. What's odd, is how their behavior doesn't disturb MORE black people. Specifically BM. Since homicide is the 5th leading cause of death for ya'll.

My words: Here we go with using stats to prove a point. Look I am well aware of black American men’s homicide rates, but here is another stat for you, What percentage of bm are murdered in any given year in this country? The answer in any given year, in any given state, in any given city OVER 99.9% of the bm in that city, state, or the country ARE NOT MURDERED in any given year. This means that while violence is a problem, the overwhelming majority of bm are NOT victims of it. Again, you are dangerously close to associating bm WITH violence, as if being a bm automatically leads one to violent behavior.

That's what we're all about at this blog. Reality. And it is certainly being recognized here.

My words:There are some REAL things being discussed here that NEED to be addressed, The sexism of bm, the ignoring of bw's issues and concerns by our political, relgius, business, etc leadership, the fact that the black community has to do MORE to protect from those images and ideas that would have them doubting their worth, but there are also a lot of fantasies that some who participate in this blog have about bm and black people.

ALL BM HAVE NOT failed BW. Many of the commentors at this blog (at least it's true in my case) come from LOVING two parent black households.

My white husband exemplifies the love I saw expressed growing up. An earlier anon said it best.

"White men don't make your life better. What makes your life better is choosing a mate based on the quality of his character, and rejecting men who make your life worse."

It's that simple. And it's good advice for women in general. Not just BW. Look INSIDE instead of concentrating so much on the OUTSIDE.

My words: All of that sounds good and I can agree, that choosing an abusive man is problematic and abusive men should be avoided, but then the question becomes WHY isn’t that the focus of this blog? Why is dating nonbm the focus? Clearly getting the message out to bw that they don’t have to put up with disrespect and abuse from any man is an important one, but when that message is cloaked in the dehumanization of bm, it can be poisonous to bw.

I don't think it's being ignored, it's just that single BW of marriage and childbearing age aren't romantically interested in their sons, brothers, uncles, friends, etc... That's find and dandy that BW's relatives and friends love them. THAT'S AS IT SHOULD BE. This is normal human behavior that shouldn't even be brought into this discussion. If BM are looking for a pat on the back for loving their moms, sisters, daughters, aunts, and friends, IT'S NOT COMING.

Because this is expected normal human behavior that a non-black man wouldn't even mention.

My words: See what I mean. This comparison of what non bm would do, which places what YOU believe to be their behavior as better than what I a bm would do. Is that necessary? I didn’t mention those things to get a pat on the back, I mentioned them because there are many references to bw separating themselves from bm, because bm don’t care about bw, and as proof of this lack of care, the fact that in America 70% of bw are single is trotted out as proof. I was merely pointing out that bm and bw have CONNECTIONS outside of the purely romantic, and that complete seperation is going to be damn near impossible for that reason.

There are PLENTY of actual anti-black web-pages (and specifically anti-black female web-pages) littering the internet. Take your "concern" to them.

My words: I don’t frequent hate websites. I honestly was interested in reading about the experiences of bw in ir relationships. I didn’t expect to read all of this bm ain’t shyt rhetoric.

Then YOU are blind, deaf, and dumb.

My words: Thank you, resorting to name calling already huh.

Again, you're seeing what you want to see. DBR BM have proven themselves to be defective, mean spirited, cruel and abusive by their negative and misogynistic behavior. It has absolutely nothing to do with color.


My words: That is funny, you claim this isn’t about skin color yet, you ARE speaking about a specific gender and RACE with a specific skin color. A race of men who have historically been associated with being subhuman(how many refer to those they identify as dbr bm as ANIMALS, who I gather they believe describes MOST bm), criminal(how many references to bm abuse, murder, rape, etc has there been in this blog), sexually immoral, violent, dumb, and on and on. I probably wont be a frequent reader of this blog for those reasons, but I have to admit, it does bother me that some bw SEE bm in this light.
While I have encountered bw who said negative things about bm in general, I never got the feeling that they hated ME on sight. I get the feeling that if I met some of the women on this blog, the fact that I am a bm would taint how they viewed me, and some of them might dislike me on sight because of my race and gender.

Anonymous said...

Good points, Avid Reader. The truth always hurts and the black men who come on here are reading experiences that make them uncomfortable. Because of their own fears and insecurities they don't want to listen to what so many bw have gone through. Instead they try to deflect with 'you have so much hatred for bm'. Not one ounce of empathy and kindness to their fellow sistas who have endured horrible abuse. Just a whole lot of defensiveness. They don't even have the decency to acknowledge someone's pain. To do that is to be human, not black or white, etc. The fact it has not been shown by them speaks volumes.

My words: I read about your experience, and understand I do feel empathy for what occurred, but to USE your personal experiences to indict bm as a whole isn't going to lead to much sympathy from bm. Many bm feel like we are NEVER seen as individuals, are never seen for who we are, are lumped and made to answer for the mess ups of other bm merely because we share the same skin color, and because the person making the charge wants to demonize us all. I am sorry if my responses have given the impressin that defending bm is MORE important then criticizing the abuse of bw, and the bm culturual habits that lead to that abuse. They are not.

Anonymous said...

A blog like this is dehumanizing and anti black man, but rap, black movies, and the like aren't dehumanizing to black women even though they are produced and promoted on a global, everyday level.

This is the monster bw have helped to create -- all black man, all the time.

I think they should just be ignored. Answering them and arguing and trying to get them to see your way seems to imply that you care for their opinion or good favour. That's whay some of them come to blogs and sites like these and give their "blessing" and "support" because they feel it is needed.

There can be no autonomy if the underlying message is that some of us still need to be seen as good little women in their eyes.

Let their black, white, or whatever wife or figment of their imagination cater to them.

When they can come here and post dissertations and get immediate responses and derail from the more important topic with their tripe, they accomplish their goal. They don't want to dialogue with us, they want to disrail our dialogue.

Anonymous said...

A blog like this is dehumanizing and anti black man, but rap, black movies, and the like aren't dehumanizing to black women even though they are produced and promoted on a global, everyday level.

My words: I didn't write anything like that. I didn't say that this blog was ONLY dehumanizing to bm and ultimately bw, but there are elements of that in this blog. I didn't write that some hiphop, and some movies produce by some bm aren't dehumnainzing to bw and ultimately black people.

This is the monster bw have helped to create -- all black man, all the time.

I think they should just be ignored. Answering them and arguing and trying to get them to see your way seems to imply that you care for their opinion or good favour. That's whay some of them come to blogs and sites like these and give their "blessing" and "support" because they feel it is needed.

There can be no autonomy if the underlying message is that some of us still need to be seen as good little women in their eyes.

Let their black, white, or whatever wife or figment of their imagination cater to them.

When they can come here and post dissertations and get immediate responses and derail from the more important topic with their tripe, they accomplish their goal. They don't want to dialogue with us, they want to disrail our dialogue.

My words: I can understand not wanting bm to participate in this blog(being I am a bm), and if that is what you and the other bloggers want, no participation from JUST bm on this blog, then it should be stated somewhere in this blog. Far be it from me to derail somebody. Although I don't view myself as being able to derail what other adults are discussing by just offering my idea.

Phoenix_Sun said...

You still don't get it. Whenever I told of my experience I was told to shut up because we can't critique black men. Another response was I should understand these abusive black men because they have it hard in society-giving a lot of the reasons you giving now, i.e. black men are invisible, etc.

I don't need your sympathy, or anyone else's. I won't shut up because you want me to. No one will ever silence me ever again. Your feelings are hurt because some are speaking hard truths, that's on you.

Anonymous said...

You still don't get it. Whenever I told of my experience I was told to shut up because we can't critique black men. Another response was I should understand these abusive black men because they have it hard in society-giving a lot of the reasons you giving now, i.e. black men are invisible, etc.

My words; Why do you have to crticize bm? Bm didn't abuse you individual men did. Why do you want to make abusive behavior about the abusive man being black?
Again, you seem to be missing my point, and that is bm are a lot more responsive to a woman's pain when that individual women isn't attacking bm in general because of her personal experiences.

I don't need your sympathy, or anyone else's. I won't shut up because you want me to. No one will ever silence me ever again. Your feelings are hurt because some are speaking hard truths, that's on you.

MY words: Wow, I didn't in any way suggest that you should shut up about your experiences. I can question the conclusions you have reached because of those experiences about bm/black people in general, but I understand, I am a bm so according to you I Am only interested in controlling and abusing bw.

Michael Fisher said...

Well, I was just made aware of this:

"This is sounding SO MUCH like that DBRbm I mentioned on my blog, "Yellamon" aka MF aka Michael Fisher. I could cut and paste some excerpts from some of his posts to my private e-mailbox that sound almost identical to this. This is where he begins to elevate white women and tell us how wonderful they are compared to black women.

Y'all, he's running from me now. He can't handle my responses to his messages but he continues to e-mail me privately. He's a real weak wienie. He set up his e-mailbox so that my responses to his rants bounce back. This is a typical DBRbm chicken who can't handle a sista whereas my white husband husband can dialogue with me without running away."

Evia. I challenge you to produce ONE e-mail I supposedly sent you other then the one below I sent you in response to the one you sent to me on May 10th.

I do not post under Yellowman or any other moniker, except under my own name. Don't need to.

Below a link to the screen print of the sole e-mail exchange ever between Evia and I.

http://bp1.blogger.com/
_adi6yj5y-Es/
Ro_k-AZgmBI/AAAAAAAABCM/
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Halima said...

Good points, Avid Reader. The truth always hurts and the black men who come on here are reading experiences that make them uncomfortable. Because of their own fears and insecurities they don't want to listen to what so many bw have gone through. Instead they try to deflect with 'you have so much hatred for bm'. Not one ounce of empathy and kindness to their fellow sistas who have endured horrible abuse. Just a whole lot of defensiveness. They don't even have the decency to acknowledge someone's pain. To do that is to be human, not black or white, etc. The fact it has not been shown by them speaks volumes.

It is indeed amazing phoenix and Avid, none of them have come on here to refute any of the analysis i have made by providing a counter analysis, all they say is "Y'all hate bm". My question to them is, which part of the post is a lie or manufactored, is it the part that bm target bw spcific features in pouring their scorn rather than women in general?

Halima said...


Annon at 11;59
You all are speaking as if abuse of bw is the NORM with bm, as if hatred of bw is the NORM with bm, and that the RARITY is a bm who actually has any concern for bw. Of course I disagree with that characterization.


Who ever you are, you will NOT stand on your side of the fence as a bm and tell us what our experinces as bw are, do u realise how silly that is, that you would proposed to tell us what we do and dont experince!

And in case you didnt get the topic the first time, this is way beyond sexism, it is race specifc misogyny and we have a right to speak about it if we so desire, you do not tell us what the scope of our blog should be. if you cant take it you would do well to move along!

Anonymous said...

"It is indeed amazing phoenix and Avid, none of them have come on here to refute any of the analysis i have made by providing a counter analysis"

IT'S BECAUSE THEY CANT.

"all they say is "Y'all hate bm".

Pathetic isn't it? An all too typical and lazy response that doesn't require any thinking whatsoever.

And a very sorry (and failed) attempt at deflection.

Clarice said...

"Aphrodite said... However, what are the ways to combat this?"
Apologies for the longish post but some of these thoughts are just aching to get out as ways on how to combat this:

1) Recognize it when it happens and that it is real and not just "your imagination" or "paranoia","being overly sensitive" – Just because the speaker is the same color does not mean they are the same kind of person – no “brother of worth disrespects himself or his “family” under any circumstance.

2) Take a deep breathe, actually take six or so to calm down the bodies reaction to stress and clear the mind.

3) Focus on your truth - the grace and dignity that is you.

4) Embrace the fact that you are a person of worth integrity, intelligence, honor, beauty and grace – refuse to be disrespected or take part in it. Do not acknowledge the person or the statements made and refuse to engage. “ trying to point out that "other men do it to", that "women do it to" – DOES NOT MATTER – Disrespect and inflicting harm is the same – it causes pain – physical, psychological, mental and spiritual pain. Pain is pain! Does it hurt any less knowing where it came from and really does it matter – NO!

ALL that matters is self preservation via the preservation of a healthy mind, body and spirit – avoid and or neutralize all toxins. There is no balance, only excuses – self protection is non-negotiable, the scale is totally tipped toward self preservation and DBR people cannot be fixed by anyone except themselves and there is no room for negotiation on that! There is no requirement to help or enable these people who refuse to help themselves and more importantly seek to destroy others to preserve themselves.

5) Square your shoulders hold your head up high and maintain your dignity. The fact that these qualities are clearly evident in your character, countenance and manner – are what draws this negativity. Walk away.

6) Remember it is not about you - the actions or negativity says more about the person spewing it forth than about the recipient. There is nothing about you that warrants their actions - this negative racio-mysogny is a reflection of their own psychosis, neurosis low self esteem and self hatred.

7) Treat this filth as you would any other filth that you step in or encounter in life wash it off and go on about your life.

8) Washing it off means stepping away from it - reminding yourself of your worth and the good that you do and the blessing you have been given in terms of gifts, talent, knowledge skill and ability.

9) In order to facilitate that process outlined in step 9 keep a list handy in your purse or wallet of the many good things that you do the positive aspects of your life and yourself. As soon as you are safely away from that person review that list. It is very easy to forget the good that you do or the positive impacts or differences that you make so take a moment every day to look back and make note of the good things that you do -either for someone or have happen to you or that make you feel good about yourself.

10) Sometimes depending on how negative this is I may perform a random act of kindness for someone - not just to help them but to remind myself that I can make a difference and that actions speak louder than words. What better way to shut down negativity than to send out positive energy.

11) Concentrate on celebrating your own life and the good that is in it and you – stay in the moment. Let that joy wash away the stench of the stupid. Help some deserving soul, take an extra trip to the gym or a walk in the park, play with your children, read an uplifting book, listen to music, sing, dance – i.e. Nurture your soul and sense of self worth, and do it immediately. Living well as in a full rich joy filled life is the best revenge.

12) Hold everyone accountable for their actions and the consequences of them both intended an unintended including yourself. Make sure you take care of your needs to nurture and support a healthy positive life and keep your eye on the ball and on the prize and recognize your truth as you know it. Refuse to deal with anyone that does no treat you with dignity, integrity, respect and courtesy!

Fact of the matter is society being what it is negativity and racio-msyogeny is a part of life and will be encountered directly or indirectly at some point. It takes five positive inputs to counter every negative. Keeping your eye on the ball (per EVIA’s blog) means accepting this unpleasantness is a part of life, like it or not and then countering it with positive action.

Personally when I encounter this I try to do all of the above and then thank my spiritual higher power for the many blessings receive and ask that this negativity be directed away from me and others so that it harms no one. Admittedly there are time when I feel anger or fear or sadness in the face of this stupidity - but I process it then and there and let it go - acknowledge and accept what I feel and experience as real and that I have the right to what I feel and then execute steps 1-6.

V/r

Clarice

Halima said...

Hello! My name is Tori and I am new to your blog!
I enjoyed reading this entry and look forward to getting to know more about you and everyone thru your blogs..
Please stop by mine if you have a moment and say hi

Tori


Hi Tori and sorry for the late response to this^^, it just that we've been overwhelmed as of late lol!

Welcome and stick around, will be passing by ur blog soon!

Felicia said...

Oh My God Clarice.

You are on the TOP of your game!

Preach Clarice. Your words are like music to the ears. A salve for the soul.

Please continue sharing your words of wisdom.

Aphrodite said...

Wow Clarice!

Thanks for that response that was awesome!

Clarice said...

The words struck a cord and though this may never be seen - but for what it is worth...

"I AM DONE said...

I am sitting at my desk crying, b/c this is truly ridiculous. I had a shitty start to my day, and an even shittier blog experience. Seriously, I AM SITTING AT MY DESK CRYING OVER THE SHIT I AM READING HERE." Over the way the dialogue has transpired, about how these bw are trying to reason with the unreasonable."

-The women here are not trying to reason - they are stating that it is unreasonable so that others know an recognize the truth and learn from this truth. Many women know the truth but feel alone like they are the only one - the women here are saying it is not you - what you see and feel are real and are wrong and you are right in not accepting it!

"At this point I am scared of black men, and I may never date another one."

- Fear is understandable - but know that is has power - but so do you! Own your power and do not give anyone else the power to change your life. DBR come in all colors, shapes and sizes - the message of this blog and others like it is "forewarned is forearmed! Knowledge is power! Make your own decisions based on what you know to be true. - evaluate people based on their actions and with your own best interests at heart. Use that knowledge and your personal power to make decisions in your own best interest. DBR may be male, female, young, old, all races, creeds, religions, colors, situations or circumstances. The form may change but the harm they cause and their function is to cause harm. The responsibility of healthy people is to nurture themselves and avoid or neutralize the negativity.

"Because if it takes this much to convince you to respect me, - then something is truly wrong with you”

-RIGHT!!!! If the person does not respect you then dismiss them and do not look back - no negotiations are possible. Respect or no interaction – no negotiation!. If you are dealing with someone and you have to work to get basic respect - you are wasting valuable time and resources namely yourself on the person - walk away and no harm no foul.

"At this point, I realize no other man will treat me with respect"

- WRONG!!!! The images are out there and others maybe influenced by that this is true - but if they are not smart enough to deal with you and form their own opinion based on their experience of you - they do not deserve your time, effort or respect. How you treat yourself in big and small ways teaches people how to treat you to get a response - you have that power and control how people interact with you.

A negative comment by others does not change the value of the object of that negativity. A gold coin, even when tarnished is still a gold coin and unchanged in value. Nothing negative that is said about you can change your inherent worth, value and beauty – your actions and character demonstrated by those actions speak louder than their hate filled words. DBR people are fighting to preserve themselves at all costs so it makes sense for healthy people to do the same. Nothing said about or to you can change your value unless you let it.

"Thanks to dbr bm drilling into my skull, and highlighting the filthiest things ever said by men of other races".

- You have heard the lies, and know the truth - embrace that and refuse to back down. Replace those lies in your own mind and soul with your truth. DBR people will self destruct on their own based on their choices, as is their goal. Human efforts at saving them have failed and continue to fail. Only a higher spiritual power can save these people from themselves, if they want to be saved. In every spiritual tradition a person who does not want to be saved cannot be saved. As above so below! Therefore, the key for healthy people is to not be taken with them or damaged by them and prevent other weaker at risk healthy people from being sucked under.

Do not give a DBR person or any person, place, situation, circumstance or event that kind of power - own your power and hold fast to your truth! What happens to you does not define who you are or your character and worth - what you do - how you respond to what life throws at you and thrive does!

As for DBR - acknowledge they exist, accept that they cause harm - that is the only function they serve, know them when you see them and what they can do and make it your mission to avoid them wherever they are in whatever form. The responsibility of healthy people is to nurture themselves and avoid or neutralize the negativity. There are people who refuse to accept that this is the truth and persist in believing these people can be saved.

May those tears wash away your pain, anger, hurt and help you heal. Please, please know that healthy people will treat you the way you demand to be treated. Teach people how to treat based on how you treat yourself and always treat yourself well and refuse to deal with on any level people that refuse to learn the lessons and accept your truth. Embrace the "passionate and sensual person. I am devoted and loyal to those who are devoted and loyal to me.

“At this point, I realize that no one will honor or respect these things in me, b/c my skin protects me from the sun, and my hair is the thickest and curliest hair known to man."

-Embrace that part, nurture it and let it grow! Take time to be gentle and nurturing and come back to your own position of strength - it takes courage to cry! Continue your journey. The pain you are experiencing did not kill you! It hurt like &@%%! YES!

That means it is not time for you to go and your journey here is not done! Score one for your side even if it does not feel like a win - Still you rise! Refuse to take delivery on the negativity when possible - push back with your truth if and when required. Even spiritual leaders had to be willing to take a stand and defend themselves and because of that they nurtured themselves and trained in preparation for a battle.

Being a healthy whole person does not mean being a push over or putting up with abuse or being a sacrificial lamb lead to slaughter.

Far from it - it means you will be attacked, and must defend yourself and your dreams. Give in and they win and all the pain that went before means nothing.

I AM DONE said...

OMG!! I am sitting here crying again, but not out of sorrow this time. Thank you ALL so much for your kind words and encouragement!!

Especially, I would like to thank Phoenix Sun for sharing her experience. It really touched me, and helped me through the day, that day. AND WOW CLARICE!! I can't tell you how much your words are appreciated. I don't think there is another person under the sun, who could have been more uplifting and encouraging in their advice!! AGAIN, WOW!!

Honestly, I was having a bad day on Friday, and it just kept getting worse. Top that with PMS, and reading the tripe from some of these posters, and I was really thoroughly worn out. Those were the emotions that I felt in the moment, and what it all boiled down to. Again, thank you ALL for your encouraging words, I really needed it. Please be assured, that I am feeling much better, and will try to refrain from emotional outbursts.

Clarice said...

-Avid Reader said...ALL BM HAVE NOT failed BW. Many of the commentor(s) at this blog (at least it's true in my case) come from LOVING two parent black households.

This is true. There are good men of character who walk the talk and take a stand in all races.

That being said the reality for BW is - like it or not - courageous enough to admit it or not the "Black Community (BC)" collectively expects it's members based soley on skin color specifically BW to provide unconditional support, encouragement, understanding and compassion to BM especially the most dysfunctional, maladapted, destructive members w/out complaint. The women here are saying "THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN"

"Anonymous said... My words: That is funny, you claim this isn’t about skin color yet, you ARE speaking about a specific gender and RACE with a specific skin color. A race of men who have historically been associated with being subhuman(how many refer to those they identify as dbr bm as ANIMALS, who I gather they believe describes MOST bm), criminal(how many references to bm abuse, murder, rape, etc has there been in this blog), sexually immoral, violent, dumb, and on and on.

Your words -
"the fact that I am a bm would taint how they viewed me, and some of them might dislike me on sight because of my race and gender."

Hello! Welcome to the reality that is BW - walk a mile in these shoes. Clearly the shoe pinches when it is on the other foot! GOOD!

Now, imagine that this is the day to day reality 24/7/365 way not only members of your own race think - but the public as a whole. Based solely on media images created and promoted by the inaction to protect, prevent and correct the false images and actions of your own people - NOW maybe you understand!

BW even the most respectable, kind, caring, intelligent together women are painted with the same misogynistic brush - largely being held by self serving, selfish, short sighted, money grubbing, exploitive members of the BC and consequently the world at large.

That is - if you were paying attention and not just feeling sorry for yourself and seeking to salve your spineless, gutless I am not like that so there must not be a problem - refusing to stand up for the truth soul! Are you part of the problem or part of the solution? - That is what the women here are saying.

Again your words -
"it does bother me that some bw SEE bm in this light."

Like you the women here are bothered by these overwhelmingly negative images and reactions and to be seen in this light - simply because members of the BC refuse to tell the truth present a balanced picture of them as "human" and encourage mistreatment by others.

Funny how it does not bother you to see BW depicted in a negative light! More to the point you expect us to care that it hurts your feelings! So what! It is all about you! It hurts you! Boo Hoo! - grow up! - grow a set and recognize that your actions or failure to act to defend others has consequences one of those is being tarred with the same brush. If you want to be heard and seen as human and a good person then ensure that others have that same right!

If you are part of the solution - fine great go forth and do good - these words do not apply - if you are part of the problem then you are not wanted, needed or value added! Women here are making decisions in their best interests and sharing with each other and folks are attempting to push back the tide with a broom - not going to happen. DBR people no longer have a choice with the women here! Come correct act like you know or go away! You may not agree and that is your right - but act respectfully or prepare to be shut down hard! Those are the fact - the rules of this game! Nothing else is acceptable!

V/r

Clarice

Anonymous said...

That being said the reality for BW is - like it or not - courageous enough to admit it or not the "Black Community (BC)" collectively expects it's members based soley on skin color specifically BW to provide unconditional support, encouragement, understanding and compassion to BM especially the most dysfunctional, maladapted, destructive members w/out complaint. The women here are saying "THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN"

My words: I know I wrote in the other blog that that would be may last response, but your words compeled me to respond.
Who are these people who expect bw to date these horrible men? I have NEVER encountered any movement by bm or bw that tells bw they have to date losers, or abusive men, or violent men. You see what you are doing? YOu are saying that the black community WANTS bw to be abused, mistreated, and unloved, so we tell them to get with abusive men. That is the FANTASY stuff that I am speaking about. THat is NOT real, that is not happening. What would be the incentive for fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, and friends to tell bw to get with LOSERS? From my perspective that makes no sense. Though it does makes sense IF you are trying to DEMONIZE black people to justify dating ir. That is what I am trying to understand. Why do black people and specifically bm have to be portrayed in this manner for bw to date ir?

Hello! Welcome to the reality that is BW - walk a mile in these shoes. Clearly the shoe pinches when it is on the other foot! GOOD!

My words: The bw that I know my wife included DON'T FEEL this way about bm or the black community. They don't feel that IN GENERAL bm "hate" them on sight. Now general American society, I think MANY bw feel hated, or slighted, or degraded, and SOME of those feelings DO come from the actions of individual bm, but I don't think that most bw feel that bm just outright hate them, in the same manner that I believe many of the black female bloggers associate black manhood with pain, hurt, using, lying, abuse.

Now, imagine that this is the day to day reality 24/7/365 way not only members of your own race think - but the public as a whole. Based solely on media images created and promoted by the inaction to protect, prevent and correct the false images and actions of your own people - NOW maybe you understand!

My words: All black people are putdown on a DAILY basis in this society. BM and BW are associated with some of the most vile human character traits KNOWN. Where we disagree is that THE source of that association. The REASON bw are hated in the manner that they are hated HAS EVERYTHING to do with racism/white supremacy/black inferiority. In other words, whether a SINGLE bm said or portrayed bw in a negative way the PERCEPTION of bw, the IDEA of who bw are has ALREADY been set.
Now that doesn't mean that we don't take those bm or bw who portray bw in a negative racist light to task, but there HAS to be and understanding OF where these IDEAS come from, and the truth of the matter is racism. So I find it disingenuous to say that bw are ONLY portrayed negatively BECAUSE black people have not done xyz to protect their image, while LEAVING OUT the RACISM/white supremacy/black inferiority upon which those stereotypes ARE BASED.
In other words, bw ARE going to be portrayed negatively AS LONG as we live in a RACIST society.

BW even the most respectable, kind, caring, intelligent together women are painted with the same misogynistic brush - largely being held by self serving, selfish, short sighted, money grubbing, exploitive members of the BC and consequently the world at large.

My words: It is NOT caused by members of JUST the bc. One would have to ask themselves WHY does the larger American society ACCEPT these images of bw because THOSE IMAGES go with the RACIST beliefs they ALREADY believe about bw. In other words, As far as most of America is concerned this is HOW they want bw to be portrayed. So again this is NOT merely a problem that will go away if black people stopped producing anything that could be viewed as a negative portrayal of bw. We have to demand balanced portrayals of bw, but WE also have to ATTACK the idea that showing a scantily clad bw MEANS that other people get to place that image ON ALL bw. That seeing a sexual bw is carte blanche to treat ALL bw in a disrespectful manner. I am afraid that MANY erroneously believe that the IMAGE is what causes the disrespect of bw, and NOT the PREEXISITING racist/sexist beliefs that are the very FABRIC of this society. So yeah monitoring rappers is needed BUT defeating RACISM and the IDEAS that support it would do FAR more to remove that yoke from black women.

That is - if you were paying attention and not just feeling sorry for yourself and seeking to salve your spineless, gutless I am not like that so there must not be a problem - refusing to stand up for the truth soul! Are you part of the problem or part of the solution? - That is what the women here are saying.

My words: This need that some of you have to call someone weak, or whining, does NOT fit me, and does NOT fit the words I have written.
I am against sexism and racism towards ALL black people. I am agianst the sexism within the black community directed at bw.


Like you the women here are bothered by these overwhelmingly negative images and reactions and to be seen in this light - simply because members of the BC refuse to tell the truth present a balanced picture of them as "human" and encourage mistreatment by others.

My words: Again, As I have stated before the negative portrayal of bw is NOT only due to the bc. In fact, it is not even MOSTLY due to the bc. You have to see the big picture.

Funny how it does not bother you to see BW depicted in a negative light! More to the point you expect us to care that it hurts your feelings! So what! It is all about you! It hurts you! Boo Hoo! - grow up! - grow a set and recognize that your actions or failure to act to defend others has consequences one of those is being tarred with the same brush. If you want to be heard and seen as human and a good person then ensure that others have that same right!

My words: Those negative portrayals DO bother me, and I didn't expect anything. I just stated my feelings, and thoughts. Your own imagination supplied the rest of the conclusions you reached. Again, I agree bm have got to do a MUCH better job of "protecting" bw from those elements that seek to have them feeling LESS THAN, and in some ways we have NOT done that, but in other ways we have. It is not ALL negative is it? We have to do a better job of calling out those that use existing stereotypes to say negative things about bw. We have to improve a lot of things.

If you are part of the solution - fine great go forth and do good - these words do not apply - if you are part of the problem then you are not wanted, needed or value added! Women here are making decisions in their best interests and sharing with each other and folks are attempting to push back the tide with a broom - not going to happen.

My words: Best interests? I don't know about that. I just see a whole bunch of blog entries that basically say bm have some kind of "mind control" over bw. So much so that even though these women are single and manless, they WILL not date nonbm WHO approach them because of the LIES that bm have put into their heads about wm. According to this blog, BM have bw convinced DESPITE them being approached by non bm that no other men find them attractive. Bm have bw so wrapped around our little finger that they SING our praises and reject any and every NON bm that could be interested. So this blog is set up to get bw to get over that bm MIND control. Now seriously, how can anyone take that nonsense seriously. Bw reject bm ALL the time. Bw at least the ones I know are NOT singing the praises of bm. I just think that basic reality is lost. This is a highly segregated society. White people DON'T want to live around black people, don't want their children going to the same schools, discriminate against black people in housing, jobs, the justice system, etc. We have a cultural history THAT wm set up of pitting the virtues of white womanhood vs black womanhood, and devaluing the feminity of bw in THEIR popular culture, movies, books, magazines, etc. Of course that is given short consideration as to why there are so FEW bw wanting to date wm. Nah, instead bm are blamed.

DBR people no longer have a choice with the women here! Come correct act like you know or go away! You may not agree and that is your right - but act respectfully or prepare to be shut down hard! Those are the fact - the rules of this game! Nothing else is acceptable!

My words: It seems that dbr nonbm DO have a chance, becasue I have only seen a COUPLE of references that actually question the intentions of non bm or speak about having a negative esperience with a nonbm. COnstrast that with the DAILY dbr bm references, and things seem a LITTLE imbalanced. Evidently the only negative experiences or painful interactions with men that ir dating bw have are experienced with bm. The ONLY devaluing of their femininty tht ir dating bw experience is caused by bm. The only time they have been hurt was caused by BM. Either all of the bw who date ir have been very lucky, or nonbm are just perfect gentle men, or maybe you ALL have agreed that in order to "promote" ir dating, ALL negative experiences dating non bm or the possible negative result of being in an ir relationship are off limits for discussion. I mean seriously when I came in here I was REALLY expecting to read about bw's experiences with NONBM. I have not found that.

Clarice said...

Anonymous said... "My words: I know I wrote in the other blog that that would be may last response, but your words compeled me to respond.Who are these people who expect bw to date these horrible men? I have NEVER encountered any movement by bm or bw that tells bw they have to date losers, or abusive men, or violent men. You see what you are doing? YOu are saying that the black community WANTS bw to be abused, mistreated, and unloved, so we tell them to get with abusive men. That is the FANTASY stuff that I am speaking about. THat is NOT real, that is not happening. What would be the incentive for fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, and friends to tell bw to get with LOSERS? From my perspective that makes no sense. Though it does makes sense IF you are trying to DEMONIZE black people to justify dating ir. That is what I am trying to understand."

"My words: All black people are putdown on a DAILY basis in this society. BM and BW are associated with some of the most vile human character traits KNOWN. Where we disagree is that THE source of that association. The REASON bw are hated in the manner that they are hated HAS EVERYTHING to do with racism/white supremacy/black inferiority. In other words, whether a SINGLE bm said or portrayed bw in a negative way the PERCEPTION of bw, the IDEA of who bw are has ALREADY been set."

It may have already been set - HOWEVER no one is forcing black artists, and black owned businesses such as BET to create and perpetuate the negative images and profit off of those same images. The BC has become a partner in their own destruction and degradation, effectively exploiting their own misery. The BC did not start the fire - but it fans the flames and adds fuel to the fire!

Deny it all you like the fact is while the BC may not come out and say be abused etc. the failure to call men to accounting for walking away from their responsibilities and not doing the basic human thing and buying the rap filth and supporting the videos and excusing bad behavior on the basis of that is all they know is the same as saying it is ok to be misogynistic.

Not condemning it is condoning it! Every member of the community may not be saying it but a large enough number of folks are failing to say anything. Nothing from nothing is still nothing! You have to have something or do or contribute something to matter.

Condoning it by silence is happening - that is undeniable. They may not want it to happen but they are doing nothing to stop it! Time was when a man had a child he would step up and stand by the woman and his child. Instead of walking away and repeat the same mistake over and over again. Time was a woman had one child out of marriage - they would be supportive but expect that the pattern would not be repeated and become a way of life!

Accountability and responsibility in the form or responsible behavior was the word of the day! People were expected to go to school, finish school - get a job and contribute to the way of life - not be drain on those around them or wait for someone to give them anything. Waiting for someone to give them a hand out is at best being a parasite at worse it is voluntary slavery!

This is not about an excuse to IR. There is no need to justify anything. The women here are free and over 21 - they do not have to justify anything they do to anyone. They are accepting responsibility for themselves and their choices and the results of those choices which harm no one including them. End of statement! No harm no foul!

Except for some reason because they choose to share their opinions in a forum designed for that others like yourself feel the need to chime in where you are not wanted and act like you have the right to ask for justification. People sharing knowledge and power scares narrow minded self absorbed folks. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU! Here is news flash you are not entitled to one! Be willing to accept other people’s right to disagree and hold an open discussion and exchange of ideas or go away!

It is way beyond that - like it or not Bill Cosby for all his flaws is right - folks are not taking responsibility for themselves and the harm they do and holding others accountable - thereby condoning the current state of disarray!

That is what people do not get and refuse to accept that the choice to do nothing and say nothing is a choice to accept and perpetuate the status quo. You do not get it because you do not want to get it and you want to encourage others to follow your same blind path - fine you have made your choice! Live with the results of it and allow others to follow their own path.

V/r

Clarice

Anonymous said...

EXCELLENT points and truthful comments Clarice.

Thank you for making them.

Halima said...

Who are these people who expect bw to date these horrible men? I have NEVER encountered any movement by bm or bw that tells bw they have to date losers, or abusive men, or violent men. You see what you are doing? YOu are saying that the black community WANTS bw to be abused, mistreated, and unloved, so we tell them to get with abusive men. That is the FANTASY stuff that I am speaking about. THat is NOT real, that is not happening. What would be the incentive for fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, and friends to tell bw to get with LOSERS?

R u utterly dense, no one is gonna say this to you in so many ways however when they restrict your choices or tell you to work with an unworkable man, or refuse to cut you slack even when they know or suspect you will have hardship fulfilling their expectations then it is tantamount to the same thing.

a person might not say to you, i want you to be obese and die of a heart attack, but if they continue to buy you greasy food, then they are essenitally brining about this outcome! Granted they might not be linking their actions with the outcomes (and that might be for you as a peron to identify), but given the level of hardship bw are allowed to experince and the lack of concern from the community, i have no doubt that it is an internalised notion of bw inferiority and role as servant to their race, that is at the root of the communtities lack of concern towards them! for this reason i view the community as against my inetersts, until they can see me as worthwhile enough to have a central position on the agenda.

The REASON bw are hated in the manner that they are hated HAS EVERYTHING to do with racism/white supremacy/black inferiority. In other words, whether a SINGLE bm said or portrayed bw in a negative way the PERCEPTION of bw, the IDEA of who bw are has ALREADY been set.

You have come again with that same ol lame and tired sh$t about the evil wm. What bm are doing to bw at this stage is so self-generating that we can afford to delink it from the wider racism in society, afterall i expect bm to know better not to happily employ the weapons of racism against bw, given that they too experince the worse of it themselves. but if bm now collude with the system to wrough destruction on bw and from the spoils that wider racism will accrue for them, hen i have everyrigh to rise up in resistance against them and i will not withold because neither have they shown me mercy!


i want you to stay away from this blog because you are not here to asist us in our efforts to better our relationship lives, you are here to moan and bring in again, a general agenda which we bw are wrestling to put down so that we can for once, focus our energies on ourselves.

since you said this is your last post, i shall start deleting your posts, which are simply an attempt to push us off course. If you cant see this then you never will!

Anonymous said...

"but given the level of hardship bw are allowed to experince and the lack of concern from the community, i have no doubt that it is an internalised notion of bw inferiority and role as servant to their race, that is at the root of the communtities lack of concern towards them! for this reason i view the community as against my inetersts, until they can see me as worthwhile enough to have a central position on the agenda."

PLAY IT AGAIN SAM. That is the crux of the problem. And that's why sensible, attractive, and intelligent BW with something on the ball would be INSANE to give two flying f*cks what "the community" thinks about their choice to date and marry out.

The "community" can self-destruct for all I care. I REFUSE to let them take me down with them.

Are all BM and black folks suffering from DBR syndrome? No. BUT, ENOUGH of them are.

And sistas need to REFUSE to let these types bring them down and jeopardize their chances at achieving a happy, secure, and loving future with a good man who is husband and father material.

"since you said this is your last post, i shall start deleting your posts, which are simply an attempt to push us off course. If you cant see this then you never will!"

It's about time Halima. And Thank you in advance.

Clarice said...

Anonymous said...
The "community" can self-destruct for all I care. I REFUSE to let them take me down with them. Here here!

Recognizing this is an unfortunate truism - the community will self destruct largely at it's own hand. Sane women are embracing the responsibility to themselves and the future and those yet unborn. There is no choice but to step forward building on the sacrifices of women such as myself and the women here who have gone before.

Some of the posts here may have been tough and unyielding - however when fighting a battle for personal freedom seeds of doubt must be addressed to prevent diversion from the purpose at hand. A small drop of water persisting over time can and will wear down even the strongest stone.

Recognize however that diamonds, the hardest stone known on earth, are created and refined by heat and pressure being placed on coal. The key is that the lump of coal refuses to yield and be crushed and instead transforms into a beautiful gem of great price to be polished and treasured, or rich black oil to be used for fuel and highly sought after. If that lump of coal gave even so much as an inch it would be ground into dust. Diamonds, oil or dust the choice is for each person to make.

Just wanting to take a moment to thank all of you for your expressions of appreciation and giving me a chance to voice my opinions for what they are worth, I say thank you and please continue to be strong and follow your dreams.

V/r

Clarice

jacque said...

Thank you Halima. it's about time this issue was articulated.

jacque said...

Familiarity breeds contempt. I think this is the case when it comes to the interactions between bm and BW.You can compare the bm denigration of BW to a child getting sick of an old familiar toy. Hey the new toys are ALWAYS better than the old ones..and no one would lynch you now for gettin' yourself a new one..Ahhhhh the benfits of sexism.LOL!!! It's time we BF stop being the old familiar , uunappreciated standbys.We are not toys and refuse to be seen as such. Also, black women are out pacing other groups of women in the professional sector. We are doing so financially and educationally. There is some serious resenment from bm camp. In other words "Tha Brothas Can't Handle It". It's as if all that hard work , intelligence and dedication makes us less feminine or attractive. ...Believe me the white boys have this issue with white women too. But they don't denigrate white women as a whole...it would reflect badly on THEM if they did (BM just don't care)....they just date asian women LOL!!!. ...It's all about power..So, since they can't stop the tide of happy successful BW what do they do? They try to put us down...
BUT HERE'S THE SECRET...WE BW HAVE ALWAYS HAD THE POWER...LOL..Let them say what they want. Let them do what they want without another thought. And we BW just keep succeeding and realising our happiness.

Clarice said...

Jacque - you are right on! Diamonds, oil or dust the choice is for each person to make. The power is within you!

V/r

Clarice

stacey said...

I never really had a bad encounter with bm however I am married to a white man and bm think that a bw wearing her natural hair is too much too handle and my fiance who is a wm encouraged me to do so ..I love this site ..I introduced it to my sister and cousin and they both love it ..Keep up the essays .

Halima said...

^^ Stacey same here. i have never had one bad encounter with bm, but somehow bw cannot be objective about the realities in our community without it being because she is bitter from a bad experince with bm.

Anonymous said...

I'm starting to see why so many blk women can't keep a stable relationshipe with a man.

To many of you are fat and ugly.I'm sure your going to erase this but so what.

Anonymous said...

LOL! Thank you troll for proving our point ONCE AGAIN.

And some wonder why we use the term DBR.

And get off it. Everyone knows ya'll LOVE you some fat and ugly white meat.

Anonymous said...

I have been enjoying your blog. I'm a bw married to a wm, and I have been enjoying your blog.

In commenting on this phenomenon of racio-misogyny, I think it is important to remember some key historical moments, some of which you might have mentioned earlier.

In the black nationalist period, it became popular for black women's strenghths to be vilified as taking away benefits from black men, particularly in response to the Moynihan report--Michele Wallace in Black Macho and the Myth of the Superwoman addresses this. Rather than see black women's strenghths as something to be celebrate, and rather than blaming white supremacy for black men's inferiority vis a vis white men, many black men (and black female apologists) bought a white man's argument that the problem was they were not patriarchal enough in controlling their women.

Also, it is important to note that male supremacy has long been the battleground among men, and affirming superiority to and access to women has long been the means of men to bond.

In the post world war II period, middle class and liberal minded black men claimed that interracial relationships would benefit race relations: Master Charlie could prove he was not racist by accepting a black man as his son-in-law. R. Morano: Race Mixing, a book which came out not too long ago.

Beyond that, in the black nationalist period, many black men saw getting white women as a means of getting back at the white man. Think Eldredge Cleaver.

Add onto that, by the 1970s a popular culture developed among black men that celebrated anti-social and misogynistic behavior as the ultimate in black manliness--think of Iceberg Slim, and his precursor, the blaxploitation films...

Thus, what we have left is 30+ years of black women being denigrated and vilified...

Regards,

"Pioneer Valley Woman"

Halima said...

Thanks pionner valley woman, that is an insightful analysis. it sad that we bw somehow choose to pull the wool over our own eyes on this one.

Keep flying the flag!

Anonymous said...

You're welcome. Some more sources which definitely get to the heart of the matter of mammy behavior: Jill Nelson, Straight, No Chaser: How I Became a Grown-up Black Woman; Joan Morgan, When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost and Shifting--I think Evia has this one linked on her blog.

Pioneer Valley Woman

Anonymous said...

WOW! another site dedicated to bashing black men. it seems there has been a changing of the gaurd. It use to be white society defacing our character and now its black society as well.

It pains me as a black man to see black people degrading black people. "Sistas" need to stop being so reactive and more proactive. Blk men didn't set this trend in motion and moreover, we cannot stop it alone. It's gonna take a collaborative effort.

To add, many blk woman as well as some black men have self identity issues. "I think, therefore I Am" -- in other words, people often view you how you truly view yourself and vice versa. So ladies, Get your minds right, and the rest will follow.

Halima said...

^^
It pains me as a black man to see black people degrading black people.

Apparently it doesnt pain you to see bm degrading bw, since you have come on a thread clearly detailing the nasty names bw have been called on this blog, and u havent said a word to support bw but are still pushing the line that it is bm being unfairly bashed!

We are of a different point of view here. we feel that bm are the originators of racio-misogyny and should stop trying to pass the buck to white men. wm are not in control of their brains and even children have to grow up and take responsibility at some stage

BM have the most issues; the idea that there is some kind of equal culpability or fault is BS. You need to take that 'lets balance the argument' somewhere else!

we do not feel that bw in anyway called this sort of behaviour upon themselves as you say by some fault of their own. That is just a pathetic excuse for pathetic men!

call it bm bashing if you like, it doesnt move us one bit. we 've had worse names, they just make us realise we are on the right track.
Get your own mind straight and get some sense while you are it!

Anonymous said...

Gender and race in the community:

Cole and Guy-Sheftall, Gender Talk: the Struggle for Women's Equality in African American Communities.

Pioneer Valley Woman

Anonymous said...

Halima

Again, lets be proactive about the subject. You have some valid points, but do you really think abandoment is the solution? And are you saying that wm are completely innocent in this present dilema?

As far as racio-misogyny goes, I have the utmost respect and admiration for bw("sistas"). I was raised in a single parent household with my mom and three sisters.

The point I'm attempting to make is this: The vast majority of men of non-color especially in America will not marry nor seriously date a bw. Not, because bm have made it so, but because for centuries, they were groomed to believe that bw were only as good as concubines. Also, they seem to have more pride in lineage.

So No, If you research your history you should find that bm are not the originators of racio-misogyny. I'm liberal. I think people should be with whomever they choose. But, to justify your choices and/or views by degrading bm and promoting abandoment of the black community is a low and not well thought out.

Granted, there are quite a number of bm which help to perpetuate this evil. But don't be naive and think that there are no wm contributing.

Personally, I consider myself a champion of the black woman and child. Through volunteering and community service, and just merely being the best man I can. I've found though, that the hardest thing to change about a person is their psyche.

Beliefs tend to rest in combines of the subconcious and spread to the comming generations. I wonder if whats dormant in your convictions will make future bm get their act together or add to the current eradication.

Halima said...

Abandonment?

at 70% singleness and 70 oow births in the black community, who is abandoning who? Very clearly it isnt bw abandoning anyone because bm have already done that, so i dont think you know what you are even talkin about!

what is left for bw to do now is take care of themselves and that means finding themselves men who they can build with.

5% plus of bw are already intermarried so that puts paid to your ignorant assumption that other men dont want bw on a serious basis. i know thats the kind of ideas you bm like to sow, so that bw can remain cowering in their cage and all the more tolerant of any BS bm are happy to dish their way. Thankfully more and more bw are waking up and teaching their fellow bw to wake up as well!

bm only marry roughtly 30% of bw, and you expect me to believe that this is the 'hight' of what bw can hope for, and she should continue to confine herself to men who can only manage to marry a paltry 30% of her numbers? Thats such a joke!

Maybe you would like to exaplin to us how wm are contributing to bw being degraded and defamed by bm both on and offline, being called hos, nappy headed, nasty wig wearers and ugly. Try and come up with something logical this time.

in truth i dont think you can because its so evident that bm are leading this one all by themselves.

and as far as we are concerned on this blog, we are done carrying torch for the race and being caretakers and all that thanksless Bs that has brought nothing but misery to bw. Let bm take up that batton and show that they care for once!

Narcissse said...

So many of us have let our common sense be subsumed into the morass of sexism. While we are fighting off one type of demon, another sinks it's nasty sharp fangs in our necks and sucks with glee.

In the fight against racial oppession, we can't sacrifice ourselves to the pyre of gender oppresssion.

In the end, Zora said it best: Black women "are the mules of the world."

So, do we keep plowing the fields for others or do we plough for ourselves?

LGR said...

Halima:

I read your post and even though I am in an interracial relationship I do not agree with quite a few of your deductions.
I will disagree respectfully and do hope that you will post my opposing perspective.
Prejudice is defined as "unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group."
While I do not disagree that SOME black men have this feeling and attitude which you have described in your post, I know many that do not have those perspectives. Further, I have met and know quite a large number of white men who believe BW are bitches and ho's. These people also subscribe to the stereotype that the BW woman is a sexual athlete and this is all she is good for... Never a wife. Always the mistress or the call girl.. Not even a baby mama.

My point therefore is that when addressing stereotypically held beliefs its is very prejudicial to attribute them to one race or sex.
I think it can be compared to the opinion that whites and blacks are intrinsically different. Many people under close scrutiny and deeper examination are usually stunned to realise how they do hold on to these beliefs. The media and the racist dispensation to which we are subject in america has made EVERYONE vulnerable to the unending racially divisive messages. The BW unfortunately suffers greatly from, and is a target of unending stereotyping and media 'abuse'...

I think therefore that a more general and less directed conclusion about BM is in order.
I hope you have a great day. Cheers!!

Halima said...

LGR

While I do not disagree that SOME black men have this feeling and attitude which you have described in your post, I know many that do not have those perspectives.

I dont think i even suggested that all bm have this problem. why do you feel a need to argue this straw man. why do you have this urgency to defend the bm that are not being attacked, are you overcomepensating to prove you are still a good bw despite an ir maybe?

Maybe you need to query this 'urge' you feel to run to bm defence because in this case you end up looking silly for arguing against something that wasnt even suggested.

Further, I have met and know quite a large number of white men who believe BW are bitches and ho's. These people also subscribe to the stereotype that the BW woman is a sexual athlete and this is all she is good for... Never a wife. Always the mistress or the call girl.. Not even a baby mama.

You know no such wm i can assure you! You are just reading your 'the good black woman's defence of her race' script.

Did you conviniently overlook the fact that this post was dedicated to exploring a specific phenomenum exhibited by bm, this isnt about white men!

i made specific reference to a group of bm, who invited themselves on this blog and men similar to them who populate many black message boards. The fact that you would think to raise the issue of 'innocent bm', without even devoting half the energy to talk about the guilty ones that are in evidence even in this thread, is telling!

Anonymous said...

LGR:

Very, well put. It is refreshing to see an intelligent, articulate, and self loving black woman which happens to be be in an IR speak out in the defense of black men as a whole.

Halima,

You come across as a very bitter woman who has been damaged in some ways that I may never understand. It appears you have taken the face of the culprit/s, some handi-cap statistics, and re-inforced the spite in your heart.

No one wants to be alone in their quest, but to persuade bw to try something different solely on the basis that white men in general are better than black men is the resurfacing of racism and hatred at its core. You have some very interesting perceptions but they are overshadowed by your passion.

And in defense of LGR, do not attempt to break down anyone's psyche unless your prepared to evaluate your own. Remember, there can be no healing without forgiveness and there may be no greater understanding with an unwillingness to reason.

Be Blessed

Halima said...

Lol @ all these bm that are desperate for bw to defend them, I think Jesus said it better, "If you had done well would you not have been commended"

if bm had been doing well, would we all not be singing their praise instead of looking how to defend them lol!

you keep visitng this blog to whine, is it not time to give it a rest, i will not change my tune and you are only hurting yourself more by stalking this thread!

Anonymous said...

To understand what is being spoken is what we have failed to realize. We all come from one another because we as a whole is not dominate in any place of the world. So how we can we as a whole come up with a conclusion about how any of us act? It seems to be a complexity when we admit that our race is being destroyed not by one particular aspect. Maybe we as whole can understand now that we are in a time where we don't even know our identity. We all came from black men and women, so how can we down play either. For the race to thrive we need both entities. How then can we hate either? It all sounds like a black lash and it is needed in order for this--identity to be discovered. How can we call ourselves united when it takes all of us to raise our race? We were put here to procreate and do God's will. We didn't birth ourselves. You have to ask yourself this question: how can sides be drawn if you don't know who the enemy is. How can you call yourself black anything if you're doing away with the black ingredient? Both the male and female and I say that the male first because the God through me allows me to come to grips with the knowledge of the man that I'm suppose to be. The knowledge of us as people who is trying to ascertain what we know and who we are. Hatred, degradation, judgmentalism, racism, lovers of greed are taught not given and they were never the cause, but hurt. Animals respond the same. They lash out and that's all that any of us are doing from the projects to the high tops. Men, we look to be lifted up as one who makes the world his family. When we as men find our wives the praise we look for is not in the world but at home. You, as women, can fill your hands, but you can't help in those quiet nights when nurturing nature does speak to you, when your place in life out weighs your place in the spirit, and as a result it is quickly devoured. We get so wrapped up that it becomes hard to notice the pain of others. We are not divided, just crying out for help. I hope that someone else sees the evolution of this translation from no life to full life. We all come from black men and black women. Love you my people.
Choose God

Anonymous said...

knockoutchick says:
I am a BW in an IRR, yet I have always been OPEN to BM and continue to be so. With that being said I am often approached or "asked out" on dates by BM. I live in NYC and men often follow me try to strike up convos an so on.

I can only assume these men are seeking a relationship, friendship or at the very least sex, whatever I imagine they are trying to "get on my good side". That being said, I am often APPALLED by the extremely negative comments BM say to me in passing seemingly unaware that these are insulting inappropriate comments.

A few months ago a BM, attractive about 40 asked struck up a convo, asked for my card, blah, blah blah. I knew he wasn't my type of partner, but I wanted to be pleasant. For one thing he kept mentioning God and church. Later he called me at at some point during our phone conversation he said with disdain "Well BW all want a man in a suit with a high paying professional job". I answered "Wouldn't you say ALL women like successful men?" Then he backed down. At one point later he said "You know a sister isn't willing to work with a brother when he's struggling". I then reminded him of that BW who had supported BM for generations often working outside as well as inside the home.

But clearly he has been saying these things as a part of general conversation with no idea how insulting they are. These comments like "good hair vs. Bad hair" are a part of our cultural landscape.

I later found out this man was living off child support from his ex wife who made more money and he spent his time taking care of thier daughter while he "looked" for a job.

BTW, most men I know who take on the role of child care and house work as the woman works end up not taking care of business anyway. So the women I know of who are six figure earners who decide the male partner should stay home, since his salary wouldn't add as much value to the partnership as his assistance with child care would because child care is so expensive in NYC, ultimately end up hiring a maid or cleaning themselves because though these BM are willing to stay home and PLAY house husband most of them are uncomfortable with truly cleaning the house and really doing the work that women do!

Anyway..I could go on and on about the general statements I hear BM make ALL the time about BW, even when we are supporting them, if I had said the same/similiar things about BM in passing I would be labeled and "evil b*tch".

I think the recent success of BW has brought out a ugly bitter streak in BM, Halima is quite right. Yet no one addresses this in the black community. We often hear about the "angry BW" comments but no one has addressed the bitter aggression of BM towards BW.

In more educated BM I find it is a passive aggressive behaviour. They seem to knowingly say mean spirited things to see if they can get you to respond with venom. They try to play on the "angry BW" type and if you respond angryily to thier insults they can fawn and play dumb while watching you explode. with that "Wow, you sure are upset...aren't you" look.

Just last night, I was heading to the gym. In front of the gym was a trainer trying to spur membership very handsome, super buff, black guy with dreads...early 30's, dark skin, well groomed. So I can only assume he gets a lot of attention from women. The majority of the patrons of my gym are white, followed by BW, then gay BM, with a couple of older straight black guys sprinkled in...mostly the trainers are the only straight men you see.

Anyway, as usual I was texting away and reading emails until the last second when I step through the gym door, so I was looking down and not at him as I passed the membership table...because of course I am ALREADY a member! I simply nodded as acknowledgement and kept texting.

So the guy kept talking to me and he walked over to where I was standing near the door...and when he walked up I said "Oh I am already a member". He said, "Oh you didn't say and made me continue my speil..you just let me keep going". I smiled and said "You know how it is addicted to email"!

But I guess since I was lookign at him and fawning or foaming at the mouth he seemed to be annoyed at that...but it was all very subtle.

So he continues to make small talk as I held my "Crackberry". I certainly wasn't ignoring him...but all of a sudden he says..."Wow look at at that" to which I answered "What?" and look around. I didn't know what had suprised him so...but what he was taken by was a beautiful, shapely WW about 30 walking towards us in gym clothes. he continued "Wow, that's amazing, WW with black girls behinds, they are really working out and putting it together. I think that started noticing that happening more around 1998 of the late 90's. Whew!!!!!!

To which I replied.."Well that's a good thing because that's makes everything more agreeable for BM!"

He then says "Yeah, but some sisters are upset about that". I smiled and replied "Not this one, I am just a happy cheery girl and want everybody to have what tehy want!" and I headed in to the gym with a smile. :-) Was that the funniest sh*t, ever!!!! I mean come on, these guys are unbelieveable!

Now if I stood in front of a BM and fawning over a WM's beauty or body...just what would happen to me????...Some of yall would have to come roll me out of Lenox Hill hospital in a wheel chair!!!!!!

The terrain is sad and brutal...only the strong minded will survive.

Peace

Searcher said...

I agree whole heartedly with this post. The negative attitudes that black men have of black women are alarming . These attitudes cannot be dismissed. Our thoughts dictate our actions . It is not surprising that there is a large amount of violence that is directed against black women by black men. We must battle these attitudes. They hurt men just as much as they hurt black women.