Thursday, December 10, 2009

'Permission to Live, Sir'

Make 2010 the Year you say 'I Do'

I came across a saying the other day that people will give you forgiveness before they will give you permission. Truer words have never been spoken!

Black women spend an inordinate amount of time waiting to be given permission, even permission to do what they want and know they should be doing. They want their community to give them a go-ahead, a green light or a pat on the back and say, 'Yes we have weighed it up now and think that it is ok now for you to proceed'. Very sad to see all these black women who wont move on with their lives, but are just milling around waiting for a 'thumbs up' to get on with life, it is sad because they will never get one. They are the only willing horse now re the so called 'black agenda' and their lot is to be worked to death!

Years ago when I was doing talks and book signing events, I remember going to a 'bw gathering/meeting' to talk about my book. In this particular meeting I really felt out of place because I just sensed that these women had gathered to really marinate in their fantasies about black love, in fact move even deeper into their illusions and I was really about to shatter it all. I recollect that a black women (kind of well known round these parts), read out a poetry which contained a verse about sucking a bm &^%((No I kid thee not!). So it was that kind of meeting where bw wanted to get all 'caught up', in their unshared fantasies about black love.

Anyway after I had talked about my book's subject and gone to get a stiff Martini at the bar, a black woman approached me and said, 'When you came up to talk I said to myself, Interracial dating? Is this one now allowed'.When she said this to me I felt it very odd but couldnt put a finger on why now I see that it conveyed to me how 'permission seeking' as a group black women are, waiting for approval before they put one foot in front of the other.

I realize now that black women go to meetings and events and churches etc etc to be given their orders on what to do and what not to do, orders from which they do not turn to the left or to the right of even when it is clear why they would do well to! It's mind boggling to some of you isnt it, that in the 21st century, black women take their orders and run their lives on the command of Central Committee and do whatever is required of them.

attention attention: Black American Brides.Com set to Launch.  Make 2010 the year you say 'I Do'.

I had one of those revelatory moments the other day, when in a private conversation someone said that white men are not in the habit of 'barricading' themselves from available opportunities, this rather, is the hallmark behaviour of black women in particular, and since they behave that way as a habit (and especially around the issue of dating), they tend to project this unto white men and think they too, put cultural and other concerns way out ahead if their basic desires and need for companionship etc. 'Rational self-maximising economic agent,' is a concept that keeps popping up in my mind these days when I survey the actions of black women, since coming across the book, 'Predicatably Irrational'. A self maximising agent (economic or otherwise) in my understanding, will have a need, look around and seize up the available opportunity for meeting that need. In order words, if you are famished and there is a huge plate of omlette in front of you, barring any immediate and physical barriers (eg a huge dog watching the plate of food), you will reach out and take the plate of food to satisfy the hunger.

I have watched freinds and collageues who are from backgrounds and cultures where self-maximizing are often second or third considerations behind, culture, hierachy, pride, I have watched them struggle to fit in with western systems.

Black women put what I would term, 'cultural concerns' (read: we have to be with black men), way out ahead of their basic and primary needs of mates and companionship, even when they are metaphorically 'starving' and have other opportunitites to meet their basic companionship needs. This means that black women are not behving in a self-maximising way. In the West, believe it or not, people are primed to be 'rational self-maximising' and systems are designed to respond to such 'rational self-maximising'. No, I am not saying this is the case absolutely, but to a very high degree.

The need for a man of black skin color is not a 'Primary need' for black women, though many black women give the impression it is. The truth is that a man of any color can serve.

So am I saying that white men are not putting race ahead of basic and primary needs for female companionship (ie are not racist or discriminating against non-white races)? I am not saying this at all. White men do discriminate but they do because at this point they can. God forbid but if half of white women set sail on a piece of ice to Lapland, you would see how fast racism and discriminating against any group of women would suddenly not make any kind of sense (reconnecting with their basic needs and available opportuntities to satisfy them). This is not the case with black women, they will dry up on the vine, waiting for that 1 in a million chance that a gust of wind will set the ice on a reverse path!

Get clued up about interracial dating, read the IR Dating E-book

And send your questions to

(I will try my best to give a reply/answer)


PioneerValleyWoman said...


you would see how fast racism and discriminating against any group of women would suddenly not make any kind of sense (reconnecting with their basic needs and available opportuntities to satisfy them). This is not the case with black women, they will dry up on the vine, waiting for that 1 in a million chance that a gust of wind will set the ice on a reverse path!

My reply:

This is what men have always and traditionally done, "loved the ones they were with," if the women they really wanted/had were not nearby.

When men find themselves in settings where their traditional partner of their group is not available, they go with who is there.

White men have always done this--native women of whatever background, and black men in majority-white environments.

Women of other groups do the same--women who live in foreign countries where there are not many men of their group, ie., Asian women in the west.

But black women don't do that! Like you said, seeking permission from those who would never give it, because they are not about to give up their own women to men of other groups!

Truth P said...

Hi Halima *smiles* I really like this sight because you are always so honest and straightforward.Thank you for your work in empowering and inspiring black women such as myself.YOU are greatly appreciated.

If it's okay with you i'd like to add something to the conversation?
I just want to say that many blacks tend to believe everybody else subscribes to the same self destructive mentalities that they do.Black women think that white men and others are just as racially discriminatory as they are when it comes to marriage partners.This is just not so.Survival is a basic instinct that most people seem to have except black american women.Fact of the matter is,if white men and others are'nt marrying/sexing and creating offspring with white women they are doing all those things with some woman of another race.Either way they will survive centuries through their children.You have black women having children by weak men who's children have little to no chance of survival.You have black women forfeiting having kids altogether.Either way they are dying off.

I have heard over and over, blacks saying how other groups are the same as us when it just really isn't true.I was just over at a site where they were giving props to Morris Chestnut and his wife who is "black".I remembered a post Khadija did on her site and in it she wrote how black women applaud and celebrate what they call black love, but many of the times that black couple is a black man with a light brite wife who could be part white.When you point these things out to black women some get angry and try to say things like well white men are just as colorist as african american men because they seperated blacks in the house and field.I tried telling them that the whites back then dealt in deception not self deception.Meaning they decieved black people into thinking whoever was lighter was better but meanwhile their was no doubt in their minds that lightskin blacks were still to be considered negro and inferior.They just played and used the lights and the darks against eachother to get what they wanted oftentime.Many of them never actually believed the lies they told the slaves.

Excellent post once again Halima.The more black women get away from thinking that everybody else thinks the same way they do,or thinks about them as negatively as black males do,the faster they will get away from dysfunctional males and open themselves up to more worthy individuals.

CW said...

Hi Halima & PVW...

It seems that we need to take a hint from other cultures...Hardly anyone else sits around idly and waits for opportunity to drop from the sky...Furthermore, in times of scarcity when life gives us lemons, MAKE LEMONADE!

BW are still waiting on permission

-Permission to wear their hair a certain way

-Permission to be highly educated lest the threats to their love lives

-Permission to travel outside the normal "spots"

-Permission to try various foods and listen to different kinds of music

-Permission to have beliefs which are not in lockstep with the 'Black Community Machine'

So...In theory, how much longer do we wait?

Daughter of the First said...

Black women put what I would term, 'cultural concerns' (read: we have to be with black men), way out ahead of their basic and primary needs of mates and companionship, even when they are metaphorically 'starving' and have other opportunitites to meet their basic companionship needs.

EXCELLENT! I had a post on my blog called I AM WOMAN-FISRT! It's the first posting.
Thank you for confirming.

Pamela said...

CW, we leave them in the dirt and keep stepping with no shame in our game.

Anonymous said...

You know, I would REALLY like the brothas to succeed BUT women need to understand that ONLY A MAN CAN CHANGE A MAN these sistas need to stop waiting around for them, hoping one of them would ask them out. I havent been to a wedding with a black LADY bride since I was a teenager(I hate the term female) I HAVE A WHITE FEMALE BLUE EYED DOG IN MY HOUSE

Anonymous said...

(CONT) Black Ladies, please, please dont be afraid of having other men dancing with us,branch out and see what happens; if you find a nice brotha, fine but if there from "another mother" dont hold back if you want marriage and he is of your religion THATS ALL

tertiaryanna said...

"Black women put what I would term, 'cultural concerns' (read: we have to be with black men), way out ahead of their basic and primary needs of mates and companionship, even when they are metaphorically 'starving' and have other opportunitites to meet their basic companionship needs."

I think the cultural issues go even beyond that: either that we have to stay w/in the BC out of loyalty, or because of lack of options outside of the BC.

I think that second part is getting a lot of traction, and that BW are being told that they're not going to find sustaining relationships outside of the BC. So they're not eating that omelette, because they don't see it in front of them, or they're told it's meant for anyone but them.

I'm really thinking about how to validate to women that they have the right and the ability to have that need fulfilled. Specifically, how to not be complicit in one's own subordination.

I think that's what some women are waiting on: not permission, but validation. Waiting for someone to tell them that the coast is clear, but not understanding that the "someone" is what's making the coast unsafe to begin with.

Anonymous said...

Hey Halima *waves*

All on point Truth P,

My sister is one of the those bw that brings up the same misconception when I bring up interracial daing. She's one of those women that's currently drying up on a vine.

You know she even had the nerve to bring up some bird-brain "scientific experiment" about how animals stay within their own species.

Anonymous said...

I love this blog and promote whenever can. And sometimes we have to be real to each other at best. Black Women are NOT being approached by White Men. Let's be real here.

I have worked in corporate america for over 20 years and I have lived in White communities for my whole life. I have always heard from Black people that "I act white, talk white" etc(which gets on my nerves). And I can tell you from my experience and the experience of many of my Black female colleagues from 4 Fortune 1000 companies - White Men are NOT approaching Black Women for dating (not affairs but dates that lead to relationships). Not even in a subtle way.

That is why Black women over 35 are dying on the vine. I see a huge difference with the younger generation of Black Women who are say 28 and under. But traditionally over 35 White men are playing it safe and sticking with White women regardless of their preference.

Now, I am the same person that posted about going on dating sites and checking WHITE MEN ONLY and getting a huge response. You have to specifically go out there looking for them or make it be known that you have a preference or are seriously open to them. Otherwise, in the good ol' US of A, White Men are not going to leave their safe zone. Europe is an entirely different story which is absolutely why Black Women need to travel extensively.

I just had to interject that because there are alot of Black Women who would be interested in White men if they were checking for us the way Black men check for White women. If there is one thing that Black women are great at, it's seeing opportunities and taking advantage of them.

Faith at Acts of Faith Blog said...

"gust of wind that will set the ice in reverse" - DYAUM!!!

It's too truth though....

Anonymous said...

Now, I am the same person that posted about going on dating sites and checking WHITE MEN ONLY and getting a huge response. You have to specifically go out there looking for them or make it be known that you have a preference or are seriously open to them. am I missing something?? I mean is there a another way to let a man know that you're interested?

I don't get it...

Selena said...

At Anon 12:52,

Why are you waiting for HIM to approach you?

I work in corporate America too and I get hit on daily by men of all races. However within the past couple of years wm have been VERY forward in their approach.

My guess is that its probably a regional thing because I have see more BW/WM relationships springing up more than ever...

Daughter of the First said...

Anon about white men not approaching.

Hmmmm, in my personal experience...albeit personal, white men are approaching.

Many of them are opening up and even looking at the dating sites, they are choosing us.

I have to be honest because your post confuses me because there are many more black women who do get approached. But sometimes it may be after a little bit of a non-verbal communication dance.

But then again, may be he fears being rejected because it has happened to him before by black women and in their older again chooses to leave them alone.

Maybe a white guy can speak up on this issue, because for me and for others, I am seeing an increase in FEARLESS white men.

It could be where one lives.
How are we presenting ourselves.
Do we consider ourselves attractive?

And a big one---do we have inner CONFIDENCE?

Pamela said...

WHITE MEN ARE APPROACHING BW where I live in Tulsa, OK. When I weighed 50% more I was being approached mainly by wm. None of them led to romance until I started dating my fiance. I was so amazed at this because I was so much larger than I am nowadays. I would have strangers smiling at me, starting to talk with me, etc. I'm convinced one reason was my smile. I have been told all my life that I have a winning smile and look really pleasant. Losing the weight did not hurt BUT my fiance and I started dating when I had only lost maybe 1/2 of my total weight loss. I mention weight because you hear that wm are more picky about the woman's size than bm are. I did not find that in my case. At least the wm would talk with me and sometimes flirt when I was larger. It never happened quite like that with bm. The past few years I have seen more and more bw with wm. People call this the south. I have to laugh because from what I hear they are probably more open here than in some parts of CA that is supposedly more progressive. I guess one reason bw may have a good chance here is that the population of blacks in the state is I believe still less than 10%. It took me a while to meet someone that I connected with but it did happen for me.

sistrunkqueen said...

I am not asking for permission..
I just receive admittance to an online Masters program at the Swedish School of Library Science in Boras, Sweden. I will start my online class in Jan. and travel to Sweden in October. So some of us do not wait for a change in life we go for it. Now the next step is to get a new job next year and get the heck out of Atlanta.

Lovebug said...

An amazing post Halima. As always, you speak the truth. Like Jesus says, "Those that have ears to hear, let them hear."

@ Anonymous 12:52 who states that white men don't approach her, I find this very interesting indeed. I am pretty average-looking (although I do try to look my best) and I am a homebody (I have been trying to socialize more in recent months) and I get hit on by white men. I wonder if you're just not paying attention because you automatically assume they aren't interested. My cousin said the same thing when I mentioned interracial dating to her. I just assumed that her mostly white school contained narrow-minded people. But when we hung out recently, she told me that she and a white guy at her school had gone out on a date together. She then admitted that she didn't notice the guy was interested in her at first because she doesn't usually pay attention to guys. Non-verbal communication is very important.
If white men sense you are open to them, they will respond. However, if your area is truly racist, you might want to relocate but first try being more open to, aware of and more psychologically/emotionally sensitive to the men around you.

Anonymous said...

"You have to specifically go out there looking for them or make it be known that you have a preference or are seriously open to them."

And so what is wrong with that? As long as you are ladylike about it? You act like that's a bit no no or something. Exactly WHY did you post this comment? This is exactly why BW are having a hard time as it is...women that think just like you.

The Language of Letting Go said...


Thank you for the foresight in your postings. The posting triggered so much thought. My experience has been a complete copy of the topics from the comments. Meaning I have been fast to say "White men pay me no attention", however after reading a number of comments I had to look at my actions. Am I projecting what I fear, and therefore not seeing who may be looking at me?

So now I am working on being approachable, making eye contact, smiling more - getting past the fear of rejection. Thank you for taking the time to post - ( I volunteer in a community social networking and it is time consuming and mostly un-appreciated - So I understand when you do something not for profit but out of conviction)

Stay Blessed

Anonymous said...

Sometimes the way non-Black men approach us can be so subtle that we don't catch the hints.

Anonymous said...


Kudos to you. Keep doing your thing, girl.

Selena said...

Congrats Sistrunkqueen,

I can only imagine how excited you are. !!OMG!!

Please, please blog about your experience from the moment you start packing your bags :-P

Anonymous said...

Congratulations Sistrunkqueen!

I wish you all the best! :)

ak said...

I disagree with you TertiaryAnna, I think some black women anyway ARE waiting for permission as well as the validation, to date interracially, especially when it comes to dating white men even more than when it comes to dating Asian, Latino, Middle Eastern, or Native Amercan men.

They don't stop and think about how black men just go on and do their thing all the time without stopping to look back on anybody, not without waiting to hear any permission for them to go.

And it's about time for black women to realize that EVERYBODY ELSE acts the same way as the black men do. They're all going out there and feeling free enough to do what they want to do. They don't sit there drying up and 'turning into stone' waiting for permission.

ak said...

Congrats Sistrunkqueen! I hope Sweden treats you well and I hope you love it all.

cool_splash1 said...

Anon 12:52 you have to take into account that WM and other non-bm don't approach women in the aggressive way that bm do and thank goodness. I got that crap the day before yesterday. Yes the guy was cute, but trying to talk to me at a light as I am trying to cross the street and then turning around to drive while I was walking home ( I told him I wasn't interested) to holla at me. Then when I said I had a boyfriend (which I don't he just turned me off that style of picking up usually does)he asked me if I was marrying him or something. He told me don't worry about him you will have fun with me.

I've had a white man do this on the bus when I was younger the holla at you or do you have a boyfriend or are you intersted and if I said no they said okay and we just talked about other stuff and became friends in the process.

I've also had wm and others hit on me that I didn't realize it, because I'm so used to bm being in your face.

Daughter of the First said...

If white men sense you are open to them, they will respond.

This is *VERY* true. If you have that something,something about you that says I date IR, then he'll pick it up. In other words, you attract it. The other key still is: Confidence.

Daughter of the First said...

Sometimes the way non-Black men approach us can be so subtle that we don't catch the hints.

6:54 PM

As some of the other posters have already demonstrated, we have to change our approach to things. Look up, smile, be approachable, be open, and think yourself desirable. It is "the white men don't pay me any mind" thinking that we focus on lack and therefore attract-->LACK!

Anonymous said...

I just found this essay

Thank you someone writes an essay on how we are blamed for the woas of the black community.

ak said...

Regarding the above, thanks for that Anonymous.

sistrunkqueen said...

Thanks for the well wishes. I received my welcome letter from the university in Sweden.So I am officially in! Someone asked me to blog about preparing for my trip to Sweden next Fall. I will try

Skypurple15 said...

Thanks for letting us know Sistatrunkqueen. I'm going to starting looking into Sweden. Good luck w/ everything!

Jacque said...

It seems to me that African American women should adopt an immigrant mentality which boils down to doing the best you can... with what you have .... where you are. Reap the best rewards you can from another culture outside of your own.
The needing permission biols down to fear: fear of the unknown, fear of true happiness when you are not accoustomed to it, and fear of not deserving the happiness you find.

My English professor( man old white man) once said to me years ago that he finds that one of the most frustrating things he has seen with the few black students he encounters is not fear of failure ( we know a lot about that I guess) but fear of sucess.
The black community does not clothe black women with the anticipation of sucess.
You are supposed to hold you head down and tow the line of self deprivation and self sacrifice until your bitter end. Then everyone can come to your wake, THEN sing your praises ( she was a gooood woman) and say how pretty you look in the damn coffin.

Daughter of the First said...

...but fear of sucess.
The black community does not clothe black women with the anticipation of sucess.

And the professor was right. Also within the black community, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. You get an education to succeed and live better. But you are "outside" if you achieve what you were taught to do. Now all of a sudden you are too good and uppity.

Daughter of the First said...

Oops posted in wrong post.

My first video:

Thank you all.

Anonymous said...

So much of this discussion is so sad and fraught with overanalysis (which can lead to paralysis).

How about people date and marry whoever they want. It's a free country.

A policeman friend was pissed off lately about having to participate in a study on racial profiling. He said, "Half the time I don't know what someone's race is nor do I care. I talked to a guy the other day who looked black and it turns out he's Indian. So what?"

In his comments you sense a bit of victory.

Do what you think is right and to hell with those who stand in the way.

As for IR dating, well, I can tell you there was a black girl in college 30 years ago who appeared interested in me and I in her but neither one of us had the courage to take it to the next level. That was a mistake. For all my posturing about civil rights, etc., when I was confronted with having to walk the walk, I sidestepped. I was wrong.

Aabaakawad™ said...

I did a long comment about the WM approach to women here, on the the blog post "Should BW just forget about seeking for that 'good BM'", two blog posts. back

Zabeth built a blog post, "Do WM Approach Women Differently?", using that comment.

I'd like to add just two little things.

1. White ppl, as a cultural norm, have a larger personal space than Black ppl usually do. So that extra ~6in. of space is not about their feelings about you; it's just typical for them.

2. Many Blacks in the South, or with recent Southern roots, avoid eye contact as a matter of courtesy. Whites often interpret this to indicate aversion or discomfort.

Both of these points, and others, are discussed by a number of people here:

I hope this is helpful.

--- Aaby

ak said...

Truth P was correct in saying that some black women trabnsfer their feelings and thoughts about race and IR unions on to white men and say to themselves that the way that they think just MUST be the same way that every white man thinks as well!

If a black woman is not a mind reader then don't listen to or take in her opinions and little musings! Don't listen to or take in the opinions of any black man who may have a hidden agenda to use a black woman and use up everything she has, to keep a BW away from IR relationships. That black man can't read the minds of white people either! He may not even know any whites as friends or anything at all!

And anyway, for ANY black woman out there to really believe in ANYBODY'S words, she needs to first SEE it for herself!