Monday, February 21, 2011

What I dont love about BWE work!

So we have had a week of nice uplifting comments to BWE bloggers and writers (and workers of all kinds).


In a shortwhile you will get an opportunity to detail, your 'niggles' re BWE work as it stands, but first let me say, thank you so much for taking the time out to write such lovely and heart warming messages. It is really good to know we have been of benefit and also to see how we can even better the BWE work, because without input every venture fails.

I was in Evia’s blog yesterday and she has just done a slam dunk of a post. The bit that touched me most was the whole issue about how black girls are blamed for lacking self esteem (and I don’t mean the ‘I love my hair, skin and teeth’, protestations which simply is just that, ‘protesting too much’). These black girls are subject to the most soul destroying messages and activities day in and day out, yet folk act all surprised when they ‘don’t have wonderful self esteem’! Doesn’t the black community grow more absurd each day!

A friend of mine, confirmed for me the other day that this ‘perverse’ thinking that, despite everything bg are expected to and indeed supposed to survive and thus are severely blamed when they don’t, is a deeply entrenched view. We were discussing one of these ‘woe is black woman’ books that I have read in the past, and she was 'upset' that the main character of the book (a black girl) didn’t see past her indoctrination and brain washing to rise up and challenge her situation! It is amazing that black girls are expected to succeed regardless of what is thrown their way and they are then judged against this benchmark and criticized severely if they don’t, 'against all odds' succeed. No other race of women would be criticized for failing under conditions under which failure is overwhelmingly likely, yet young black girls are!

Evia said something very important, that it will take 'all of us' to get out the BWE message (or whatever name you choose to identify this black woman empowerment message) out.

There is just too much to do and too many portals of misinformation surrounding black women for it to be left to one or two, even left to a hundred people to do. The black church for instance has become a place where black women go to take their does of medication which keeps them sedated, calm and compliant in dysfunctional dynamics, where they serve as the host body to a vast array of parasites that are feeding off them!

To get the message out, there must be a ‘all hands on deck’ approach or else let’s just forget it now. And trust me you can do something.

A black women wrote me that she blind copied one of the BWE essays she felt hit ‘home run’ re the bw situation, to her email list (she opened a new email address for this and titled the email ‘The Essay Every Black Women must Read’)!

There is a lot you can do; design a flyer with key BWE points (to get bw thinking) and drop on a train seat, cafĂ©, in church, hair salon, etc all anonymously and without having to ‘out’ yourself in anyway. One or two black women will come across it, get curious, even discuss it with another friend/s and the message spreads, painlessly and without much time investment.

Decide to reach five black women/girls this year with a well thought out ‘elevator pitch’ of core BWE points (and ones that capture their curiosity or speaks to the key issue bothering the black women round you). You can do it.

Bw are very creative When-They-Want-to-Be! Turn on that creativity for BWE and do it for as little as 5 bw in 2011 (you will probably need just 1 Hour to both think up and execute a strategy). Do it this February or March and you can sit back the rest of 2011 knowing you have done your bit to push out BWE.

Do not chase any bw down or bang them over the head, with the BWE message repeatedly, just let them know there is ‘another way for bw to live’, and to live a more fulfilled life as opposed to struggle and unfulfilled dreams. That’s all you need to do, their needs should lead them to the information when they are ready.

This website below is designed for the newbies or for those who need to get their heads around the BWE message. Feel free to send your ‘friends’ to the link.

http://www.tellingblackwomenthetruth.com/

If you care about fellow black women, in fact even if you cannot bring yourself to care about adult black women, but you gaze upon the young ones with compassion, then you must do something.

An evil has befallen bw that they do not care about our young daughters in fact I believe subconsciously some black women want their daughters fall into the same life crippling traps. I watched a particular incident at one of the social groups near me, and my instincts told me the reason why the mother was not nurturing the talents of her very talented daughter and not giving her the necessary prods and pushes (because shildren will need structure and motivation, thats why they are children), was because she was simply sabotaging her daughter! Sick Sick Sick!

In line with this ‘all hands need to be on deck' approach, tell us what you would like to see improved or what is uncomfortable with BWE work for you. This excercise however is for those who are 'invested' in empowering bw, not those who disagree with this basic premise of bw deserving empowernment and fulfilled lives. If you agree with the notion of bw being empowered but have a few issues or ideas to iron out re BWE work please drop a comment!


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84 comments:

Nana said...

Well I have a couple of comments in regards to IR dating:

1. I've noticed many BWE/IR bloggers use the phrase "quality men of ALL races" quite often. I think there needs to be a greater emphasis placed on white men, with openness to other non-black men as a secondary focus. I'm saying this because there are plenty of black women who are already OPEN to dating men of all races, but their focus is still on black men. This message enables black women to focus on black men while leaving men of other races to the wayside in case her black prince doesn't come around.

I can speak for myself and say that I am not interested in black men as romantic partners. It's not because I don't think there are ANY quality black men in the world; I just think it's simply a waste of my time and energy to include them in my dating options when I could be searching within a larger, more eligible pool of men.

2. Furthermore, I watch what kind of men I keep as aquaintances. I don't believe men and women can be 'friends', and 'friendship' almost always leads to sex or romance. I therefore only make friends with men who are eligible for a relationship, and who appreciate black women.

Why am I mentioning this? Because I am currently witnessing my gorgeous, worldly, intelligent, talented black female friend fall hopelessly in love with a DBRBM because she made 'friends' with him two years ago. Because they were not dating, she did not vet him, and probably excused many of his shortcomings. I keep telling my friends that they need to vet ALL men before beginning FRIENDSHIPS because we as women are relational beings, and we are prone to loving any man who spends enough quality time with us. At the very least, it will lead to him asking for sex.

3. I noticed a few pro IR/BWE bloggers putting up photos of BWWM relationships and immediately using it as an example of a BW in a relationship with a QLL man. I'm sure compared to the typical BM they seem to be quality, but we shouldn't be placing labels on a relationship we don't know about. I'm not saying the photos are bad-it's encouraging to many women to see black women (who actually look BLACK, not just biracial) in relationships with handsome, successful non-black men. But perhaps we should be a little more careful before automatically assuming that these women are in great relationships.

4. In response to the rest of your post, I totally agree about the "protestations" and how BW are blamed for lacking self esteem. As a child, I felt the most insecure with myself when during the 4 years I went to public school. There were several inner-city black children there. The black boys there started from as young as 10 or 11 years old to exclusively date white and biracial girls, and they only liked black women for their "big booties". A lot of my preteen black female friends tried to make up for their low self esteem by capitalizing on having a big behind. Hip Hop culture was a real downer. Of course, I was always the awkward one anyway; I was too "white-acting".
Great post.

Christelyn Karazin said...

If there is one thing that I can say that can be improved, it would be that more established BWE bloggers be open, empathetic and generous to new people on the scene, and not feelso territorial--we all have something positive to contribute. For me, BWE is encouraging black women to be thier BEST selves, inside and out, and understand that they are worthy of protection, provision, love and marriage, just like every other race of women. Everyone has their different approaches, but I think it's counterproductive to belittle others because they may not fit the mold that most are comfortable with.

Thanks, Halima, for opening up this discussion.

shan said...

The bc is depressing. Being around bp sometimes in general can take a toll on you. I'm just being honest.

Yes, bm are very interested in who bw marry and/or date. Bm cannot pay a woman any attention, but he will break his neck to see what her boyfriend looks like, and yet get mad if her boyfriend is non black or even light skinned black, yet these same bm don't want the bw. This is nothing but mind control, "keep the bw in her place".

Many bw are getting the message. I see it daily.

Kathleen said...

Nana, I don't agree that there are NO good BM out there, but you're right about single women being 'friends' with men beyond 'keeping it businesslike' because romance happens. It's a shame that your friend got a DBRBM....the BWE sites are women who may have brothers in their family who are GBM--although i'm attracted to the WM myself especially if in uniform (cops, military etc.)

Faith said...

Evia's blog post was on point as usual!!

@Nana There are plenty of BWE bloggers who specifically state BW must date from the pool of available higher-caliber males and that those males are going to be white. I have also written blog posts pointing to specific relationships where the WM a particular BW may have chosen is not a quality man. That's why this comes back to Evia again emphasizing why women need to vet (evaluate) men better. Most women do not know how to and I'm also addressing certain aspects of that as well.

As a reader you must be discerning where and whom you're getting your information exchange from.

As for getting the BWE message out many times a few small doses of common sense can go far as long as the message isn't subverted.

Any valid contributor who makes it a priority to protect the message, the messengers and the readers alike will have no problem participating.

No one is owed anything for simply showing up.

What you PRODUCE must be the priority. Not talk.

Blog forum administrators are held to an even higher standard as the supposed message bearers. If we won't be held accountable then there isn't much left to the BWE message is there?

We absolutely need more black women who've been given life-saving information to step it up and stop sitting on the sidelines.

Nana said...

@Kathleen
I said I don't exclude BM based on the belief that there are no good ones; I do it because there aren't enough for me to consider them as serious dating options. I personally know one respectable black man-he is Nigerian. Although he has everything else lined up in terms of education, class, basic respect for women, etc. I would never date him.

I don't date African men; I can't take the stark cultural differences and the blatant misogyny and disrespect for black women. This is coming from someone who lived in Nigeria for two years. The culture will still surface at some point within a long term relationship. Similarly, I will not date a Middle Eastern, Caribbean or Muslim man, or any other group that was not raised in the West or with Western values. It's not enough to be simply "good" at a point; a lot of it is also compatibility and understanding.

I think some people should throw out some of the PC stuff and get real. There is nothing wrong with excluding a whole group of men based on what you know about their culture and/or behavior as a group. Everyone knows there are exceptions to every rule. Why should a woman expose herself to a certain group based on the FEW exceptions that she may never even encounter?

Evia said...

These black girls are subject to the most soul destroying messages and activities day in and day out, yet folk act all surprised when they ‘don’t have wonderful self esteem’! Doesn’t the black community grow more absurd each day!

It is totally absurd and so conveniently self-serving, Halima to those people who can't figure out why many of those little black girls are not as bubbly and pleasant as some of the non-black girls and women!

Anyway, it's those little black girls that keep me doing what I do now, to pay it forward. Some times, over these past years, I've really, really wanted to pack it in because there are so many other things I really LOVE to do, but those little black girls keep me at this. Those little black girls are ME, a few decades ago. I see some of the cutest little black girls. And then, I see their future. Bleak.

And thanks for repeating and amplifying what I said on my site. It will take ALL of us to get this message out because so many bw take comfort in in their self-segregated bunker mentality and think that the enemy is outside, when the enemy is actually inside.

However, there is always an upside to everything. The upside of bw's self-segregation is that it's a perfect situation to spread the message in those concentrated clusters of women.

MOST bw DO pay attention to other bw, even though they may pretend they don't.

So ALL of you who care about bw even just a little bit: help to SPREAD THE BWE MESSAGE. Not to sound melodramatic, but spreading this message IS actually saving bw's and their daughters' lives. I have seen this happen several times in the last few years, and it was amazing. I've encountered bw who've done a complete 180 degree turn in their thoughts and lives as a result of me repeating the BWE message and their witnessing me live this life.

So please don't argue with ANY bw. Just do your best--in your own way--to plant the message among them as Halima suggested and in other ways that you may devise. Just drop the message and don't look back. As that bw's suffering gets worse, she WILL remember that maybe, just maybe there's a way to relieve the pain and/or survive and thrive--because self-preservation is an ingrained instinct. It will trump the bw self-sacrifice & self-destroy program. All YOU have to do is just do your bit to help spread the message! Some of those bw WILL remember.

Anonymous said...

I think we need more extremists.

I think we need more people that will not negotiate with our haters or settle when it comes to the lives of black women and girls.

We need our own Malcolm X's(plural)
Even if we have to be Malcolm X ourselves.I'm not talking public protests I am talking about being strategic,uncompromising,and unapologetic in defense of black women and girls(tmGINA WAOD).

For the most part I see no need to mention GBM because they are mostly of no value to us.This includes my own father.The GBM are outnumbered and can or will do little to help black women and girls.I also think more relatives of black women and girls need to be called out for their evil anti black girl ways and shunned.I think if we were being honest most of us would have to admit that many of our own relatives fall in the dbr category.

Truth P.

Ic0n said...

Dear Halima,


As I side, I wanted to tell you that it was EXACTLY this reason I decided to start back blogging as of today(under "Analysis of it all" on your blogroll, please change the URL to http://www.blackfemininity.com),

The work you have done has inspired so many women, self included. But while I hope you, Christelyn, Khadija, Sara, Cherilyn, Evia, etc., don't stop blogging anytime soon, we can't create this enormous need that rest on your shoulders forever. That's not fair to original BWE bloggers, at all. And as newbies in the movement with new voices, we need to learn to listen as much as we need the support of BWE as a movement, putting aside egos, and I hope we can always (as black women--as bloggers) come from a place of mutual conversation, understanding and respect.

With a million thanks for all you do,

~Shek. (Ic0n)

Dr. Igia said...

I'm still new to the scene of BWE-so please forgive me if my commment has already been made previously. While I friggin love me some BWE blogs/messages; one message that I feel is neglected is BW forming and building relationships w/ one another.
I don't know if many realize this, but we can be each other best allies. We need each other! It's a hostile world out there, with many people who hate/despise Blacks(I live in a very multi-ethnic/racial area-I know what I'm talking about).
That being said, I know the concept of BC is dead and rotting-but PLEASE black women-lets try and stick together.We need each other. No one else understands our hair, the prejudice/discrimination we face, our crazy but loving families, the issues we have surrounding IR dating, or even our frames of mind. Only we seem to know that about each other.
I believe that BWE should direct some attention on BW forming relationships w/ one another (not romantic/sexual). Like I said we need each other.
Many of us would not be as successful had it not been for black women standing together and aiding one another. By this I'm referring to ALL the BWE bloggers.

I'm starting to blab to much-but I hope this is a helpful thought. I know that we should have friends of all races/ethnicities/genders-but please lets at least keep 2 BW friends. When we become the women that we've always wanted to be-don't look down or avoid other BW. Lets try to embrace each other-I've realized that we are more alike than different-despite geographical, age, or color differences.

Halima said...

Hi all

thanks for responses so far. i am going to try to take on and address each point raised (i might bunch together comments if they are saying the same).

Nana, you raised the issue of forgetting about PC. I know what you mean. for sure as things stand and if we really want to be honest bw have more of a better chance looking out than in. what with relaxing attitudes to race, the work of feminism impacting white men and their attitudes and of course white men being still very much into the idea of marriage and family building (as evidenced by stats) all this opposed to racio-misogyny and virulent hatred on the increase in bm's attitude towards bw, entrenched sexism that has never ever been addressed, the loss of ineterest in marriage and family building among the bm contingent. so yes i agree that maybe bw are better off just focussing outside the race for men and if she gets approached by a respectful bm and they get together, then good.

But I think the issue is really that bw are not 'reading' their situation and adjusting as they see is sensible for their situation, eg if there are still good bm around and asking you out then of course include them but if you are in college and you find bm are not (or only DBRs are), then exclude them. Most people dont need to have things 'spelt out', like this. they just observe and make adjustments even some do this without being conscious of doing this but they all adjust towards favouring their odds etc. With bw, however, their ability to respond appropraitely is hindered by all sorts of black regulations that overrides a sensible approach to lives.

BWe are really struggling with this issue with bw. sometimes you find that with many bw you actually dont have any internal mental frameworks upon which to hang BWE notions! Its almost like the BC ensured they were a 'blank slate' so they could be very useable, so many bw dont have the most common notions of self preservation within them. this means hand-holding is required to a high level, yet handholding is not the best BWE way.

bw have to be self directing and find a way to formulate their own effective philosophy which they can take BWE nuggets to build on.

A very hard one because the community has really done a good job on preparing bw to compromise their own better living!


Hi christelyn, will address your comments shortly...

Karen said...

"If there is one thing that I can say that can be improved, it would be that more established BWE bloggers be open, empathetic and generous to new people on the scene, and not feelso territorial--we all have something positive to contribute."

I think a way for this to happen is by demonstrated actions of reciprocity. Being able to bring something to the table. Generosity is unfortunately too often abused when it comes to Black women. There is an "inherent" sense of entitlement from the BC towards black women (i.e. we are only supposed to give without any expectation of reciprocity).

Therefore, it is important that when any of us seek out the help of others, we come with something to offer. No one likes to assist people who only take.

One of the key messages of BWE is for Black women to have self-determination and that includes the right to set boundaries and to say "No".

Khadija said...

I would like to re-emphasize what Faith and Karen said.

I would like to see more BWE readers get off the sidelines and start actively supporting and protecting the BWE message---thereby increasing the survival odds of the young Black girls who are coming behind them.

This will happen as more BWE readers actually start living by the values expressed in the 2 words they've learned how to repeat: "vetting" and "reciprocity".

At the end of the day, "vetting" means screening out and disconnecting from individuals who want to take from you without giving value in return. It means screening out and disconnecting from people who want to abuse your generosity, abuse your resources, thereby abusing you.

Vetting means having and setting boundaries. When you don't have any boundaries, that's one way you can tell that you're not a free person.

In the BWE movement context, "reciprocity" means protecting the BWE message and messengers that protected you and and your interests as a BW. Casually allowing people to come around you to urinate on the BWE message and messengers that enriched your life and protected your interests is not reciprocity.

I would like to see more BWE readers learn to use some discernment, and learn to assess people based on their chosen ACTIONS. And not just a smiley face and pretty words. Rev. Hot Comb was correct when he noted that "Sometimes a hugging is a mugging."

Most of all, I would like to see more BWE readers start taking some actions (the small, no-personal-cost ones that have already been suggested are good ideas) to pay it forward with the benefit that they've received from the BWE message.

ak said...

Nana:

. I noticed a few pro IR/BWE bloggers putting up photos of BWWM relationships and immediately using it as an example of a BW in a relationship with a QLL man. I'm sure compared to the typical BM they seem to be quality, but we shouldn't be placing labels on a relationship we don't know about. I'm not saying the photos are bad-it's encouraging to many women to see black women (who actually look BLACK, not just biracial) in relationships with handsome, successful non-black men. But perhaps we should be a little more careful before automatically assuming that these women are in great relationships.



Uh Nana, hi there. When these blogs put up pictures of BW/WM married or engaged couples, of course nobody knows what the people's peronalities and relationships are like. it's not like they're being followed by film cameras/live cameras like aon a reality TV show, or like Big Brother.

And anyway, just like with any marriage, marriages can fail and marriages can succeed. I doubt that any blind assumptions are being made here. The reason why some IRR blogs and BWE blogs put up pics of BW/WM married or engaged couples is becasue it wasn't even more than 10 years ago that BM and just black people in general would say such foolishness like 'White men will never look at black women', 'They would never touch black women', or 'They would only want a black woman for sex' etc., etc. meanwhile desiring black men, for some reason, knew no bounds!

So some black women just listened and believed that only black men would want them, if even that! So that's why a lot of pics of actual weddings for instance, or engagement/wedding announcement pictures are placed on those websites so that BW can look and see that there are men who are committing to them and not just looking for one night stands or whatever tomfoolery they've been told!

No one can or will ever know everything, come on, but this is about proof that black women are getting married now to men who don't look a thing like them, and even better is that there's proof being submitted to IRR and BWE websites from publications such as Jet magazine with picures of black women and white men married to each other in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s etc.

Please don't ask me how BW got to believe in this bamboozlement if they ever read Jet magazine back in the day! There's even been proof of past celeb, or even still iconic celeb, talented and/or famous WM stars who married past celeb, or even still iconic celeb, talented and/or famous BW stars. I saw most of this through BWE websites and certain other sources also.

Evia said...

@ Nana re:

I'm saying this because there are plenty of black women who are already OPEN to dating men of all races, but their focus is still on black men.

Well, I've learned something here today. LOL! I would think that if a woman is open to dating men of ALL races, then her focus would be on ALL men pretty much equally, if they're in her social orbit.

I noticed a few pro IR/BWE bloggers putting up photos of BWWM relationships and immediately using it as an example of a BW in a relationship with a QLL man. . .But perhaps we should be a little more careful before automatically assuming that these women are in great relationships.

Okay, I may be one of those "pro" bloggers you referred to. This reminds me of the many notes I've received asking "how do you know that that wm (in the pic) is even married to that bw?" I have to answer that I do NOT know. The only bw I know for sure is married to a wm is ME.

I haven't seen anyone's else's marriage certificate. Likewise, I don't have an investigation squad to track down and verify whether the wm in the pics is a Quality Loving and Lovable (QLL) man.

The question is why is there such an unparalleled level of interest in the bw-wm relationship/marriage?

This level of scrutiny is ONLY leveled at wm with bw. It's the ONLY type of relationship that provokes a level of maniacal inspection/analysis. People who hate me still can't stay away from those pics or my site. LOL! They have an addiction to looking at those pics and reading what I write about any or all of that.

No one ever asks whether a bm is a QLL man when they see him in a pic with his black wife and they appear to be happy, and no one ever tries to investigate whether a ww who marries a bm is a QLL woman, when they're viewed as happily married in a pic. That relationship/marriage just IS. Likewise a bw-wm relationship/marriage just IS.

These questions ALWAYS come at me from black people and as Khadija says, we critical thinkers have to ask "cui bono?" Or "who benefits?" Who benefits from constantly asking whether a wm married to a bw is really a QLL man? It's certainly doesn't benefit the masses of bw to keep the blanket notion floating around them that wm are not to be trusted as quality mates when the fact is that wm are the overwhelmingly largest group of men around marriage-ready bw who are MARRYING women. So, it is definitely worth a bw's while to get to know that white guy, VET him, and find out whether he has the right stuff.

This is not aimed at you Nana. I'm glad that you provided an opening for me to say what I'm saying and I'm serious when I say that those folks who are obsessed with bw-wm pics and our relationships need to get mental health treatment. In a typical bw-wm relationship/marriage, we eat, we sleep, we love just like everyone else, and none of us is of perfect quality. We're just perfect enough for each other.

LaSteph said...

One of the things that I don't like about the BWE movement is actually, in proper perspective, one of the reasons why I love it which is the moderation. I always get disheartened when I go to websites like Rev. Lisa's and the woman who wrote "If white women were black" and see that the blogs have become private. And the websites that are not private usually have moderated commenting. But the reason why this is postive is because, if these sites weren't attracting the trolls then that means that they weren't doing their job.

The fact that, if given a chance, BM and their lapdogs flock to these sites to throw their vitrol (which they do...I had the priviledge of arguing with a DBR that had me SMH at the fear and anger I saw in his words) shows how powerful their message is. I can now look at things (such as shows like Grey's Anatomy and Private Practice with their perpetual love of mammies) with a critical eye and not support the things that don't support ME. Damaged folks know this which is why they call BWE bloggers and commentors "crazy" and "BM-hating."

Anonymous said...

"MOST bw DO pay attention to other bw, even though they may pretend they don't."

So true. Tonight I gave 20ish bw various BWE site addresses. As she says, "I date all types of men. My present bf is a H/AA man. I live in the South and I have noticed that more younger bw are beginning to show interest and date other race men, even some 40-50 yr. bw are getting in on the fun.

Good for them!

a.

Anonymous said...

One of my co-worker's daughters is married to a VP at Citi bank and she is living the life.

Halima said...

If there is one thing that I can say that can be improved, it would be that more established BWE bloggers be open, empathetic and generous to new people on the scene, and not feelso territorial--we all have something positive to contribute. For me, BWE is encouraging black women to be thier BEST selves, inside and out, and understand that they are worthy of protection, provision, love and marriage, just like every other race of women. Everyone has their different approaches, but I think it's counterproductive to belittle others because they may not fit the mold that most are comfortable with.

Christelyn the point you make about the wider message of BWE and other bw coming in to preach this 'broader message' of bw living the best lives is a strong one.

I think that in the last few years and indeed up till now, bwe have been in an excercise of untangling what really are the corner stone precepts of BWE. we have been in a phase of discovery. the amazing discussions over the years have fine tuned and honed down what BWE really is about. I doubt any of the older writers even suspected we would have this body of knowledge we have about bw lives now, when they started!

I tend to write generally and so does PVW but with a better grasp of the theories and frameworks lol! So maybe its the way I think, which can appear abstract but is useful in 'framing' discussions.

Thank God for Evia and Khadija and the many many others who have fleshed out issues around bw lives with powerful examples that I would never and still dont have the capacity to do!

There is an assumption that BWE know it all. We dont. over the years our position has evolved and certain incidents have made us strong in our conviction that we were right to hold a particular assumption eg a general distrust of bm. Many bwe believe this (even if we dont state it categorically) and becuse over and over bm have demostrated that they are only all about themselves!

Some newer BWE start off by thinking, 'Thats too harsh, surely there are many bm who want good for bw.' They tend to come round to the BWE current point of view of bm in short time lol!

I am saying this because sometimes we have conflict with newer writers who think that...well we are being harsh and they can teach us a thing or two lol! I guess the older writers just give a wry smile because they know that soon and very soon, the newer ones will see what they are seeing.

bwe have at present identified a couple of strands which i think for now kind of covers what bw need to be focussed on in terms of BWE work.

I think at some point the precepts of BWE will be known generally and there will be more bw who sign on to propagate the work because it will be clear what we stand for and they will know if they agree with it or not.

I think many newer BWE bloggers and writers are coming in to this work at a time of discovery and not a time of 'settled' understanding. conflict is thus inevitable if the space is not managed carefully as we all try and find our feet re BWE and protectc core ideas that if watered down could mean bwe fizzling out. But it is indeed the role of older bwe to communicate effectively these non negotiables and it is the role of the newer ones to be able to recieve. On both sides the right attitude will fasciltate the transaction.

I will continue with your point on ego and generousity in another comment!

Yellow Moon said...

RE: Nana's statement about white men

You know, I have to agree with her; I think that white men are the best-percentage bet for black women as mates in terms of the overall non-BM population. I have nothing against Latin or Asian or Arab men at all, it's just that many, many of the men in those ethnic groups have highly sexist oulooks towards women, AND, they also come from cultures with their own virulent form of colorism.

If I'm going to go fishing, I'm going to pick a lake that has more of the kind of fish I want to catch.

Western white men have the cultural values, like gender equality, for example, that I desire, and, there are plenty of them. Additionally, you may have your own point of view about this, but I think their family and friends are more likely to accept the black wife at some point - as opposed to the extended Asian family, the Arab family, the Latin family, etc.

I'm not speaking in absolutes here; of course there are black women deliriously happy with their Asian husbands and his extended Asian family loves her to death, but I think that is probably the exception, not the rule.

No, I'm talking about going with the odds right out of the gate.

I think the odds of a black woman finding a lifelong mate that she is happy with and shares values with are much higher overall within the population of white men.

That may not be PC (I don't see race when I look at a potential husband - yeah, right), but I think it is a winning strategy.

Why invest a year (or two or three) in a relationship with non-BM only to finally figure out that he is just too chauvinistic and sexist, or he has real colorism issues, and his family and friends just loathe you? Do you have that kind of time to waste?

Because I don't. I'm going to go with the high-percentage bet.

Lisa99 said...

@Evia


This level of scrutiny is ONLY leveled at wm with bw. It's the ONLY type of relationship that provokes a level of maniacal inspection/analysis. People who hate me still can't stay away from those pics or my site. LOL! They have an addiction to looking at those pics and reading what I write about any or all of that.

No one ever asks whether a bm is a QLL man when they see him in a pic with his black wife and they appear to be happy, and no one ever tries to investigate whether a ww who marries a bm is a QLL woman, when they're viewed as happily married in a pic. That relationship/marriage just IS. Likewise a bw-wm relationship/marriage just IS.


Isn't THAT the truth? And BW are just as guilty of doing this as BM are... sometimes even worse!

I know that some of my BW friends or colleagues have either sent or posted a link to two sites that show pictures of famous/semi-famous BM with WW. One of these links offers the "question" of whether these "relationships" prove something about BW's supposed lack of desirability.

Funny thing is, I know that some of those couples are no longer together, or that some of those WW were strippers and porn stars, or just flings and baby mamas. But how do you think most BW responded?

"Oh no, see, all the good BM are choosing WW! Nobody loves BW!"

As I think many of the BWE bloggers and supporters have noticed recently, too many BW WANT to be miserable and want to believe that nobody wants them because BW don't necessarily want to face some hard truths about dating and mating in the BC.

So, it's sadly amusing to me to see BW questioning the strength of the BW-WM relationship photos posted on various websites, when they take the BM-WW pictures as evidence of strong, QLL relationships... even when those women are folks like Kim Kardashian or CoCo.

Ic0n said...

“One of the things that I don't like about the BWE movement is actually, in proper perspective, one of the reasons why I love it which is the moderation. I always get disheartened when I go to websites like Rev. Lisa's and the woman who wrote "If white women were black" and see that the blogs have become private.”

@ La Steph, the reason why “If white women were black women”, and the whole blog, went to private is because I stopped blogging and commenting on blogs (but never stopped reading them), and didn’t want to delete them. In fact, the first time I commented on a blog in 6 months was the comment above to Halima.

In retrospect, I realize how much I missed blogs that stopped being functional too, started heavily moderating comments, etc., maybe, future BWE bloggers of the next generation (meaning 5 yrs in internet terms) will find it useful to participate in a collective think-tank with several bloggers on a website. This way, when one goes on hiatus from personal pressures, the others fill in. Sometimes, black women need a space to “talk amongst themselves”, in a non-structured non-lineal matter, where they feel forced to stay on topic.

“I think many newer BWE bloggers and writers are coming in to this work at a time of discovery and not a time of 'settled' understanding.”

I agree Halima. What I liked/like about BWE was that a lot of bloggers were learning as they were going, understanding the PERSONAL error of their/our thinking in the past was what helped them put BW’s collective experience in context, knowing they were once too, conditioned against their own interests. Reading a post that you MAY disagree with hypothetically, was simply ANOTHER WAY of looking at something. I know quite a few reasonably intelligent black women who at one point said “I’m glad we’re getting body image acceptance”, who are now rethinking the whole myth and acknowledging that obesity acceptance (for black women only) was only ever designed to promote anything other than black female inferiority. Coming to grips with patterns of thinking and changing them, are things that are normal and simply a part of normal development.

Truth is black women who wrote in the 70s served and still serve their purpose, but they didn’t grow up in “Gangsta rap culture” to know that this is a serious NEW problem for black girls, and future black girls will be facing even more atrocious circumstances. So “fresh” ideas and new ways of getting information out to black girls is always needed, whether it’s from a newer blogger or a more seasoned one.

"Most of all, I would like to see more BWE readers start taking some actions (the small, no-personal-cost ones that have already been suggested are good ideas) to pay it forward with the benefit that they've received from the BWE message."

I agree 100% with this comment Khadija. I think this is important.

Is there anything BWE forerunners want out of us? (the readers/newer crowd of BWE?).

Lynn said...

I have never commented on this site, but I have commented on Faith's and Khadija's site. I have read most of the articles here and I want to thank you, Halima, for your enormous contribution to the BWE cause.
Though I have dated interracially for 5+ years now the insights I've gained from BWE's have helped to chrystalize why I do and gave me peace of mind in my decision. Also I feel more of a kinship to all ladies around the world who experience similiar issues AAW go through. It's great to know I'm not alone and more women are getting it every day.
I don't have any children nor do I plan on having any. But my heart goes out to this generation. Many of them know there's somethong wrong, but do not have the words or life experience to articulate it. BC's must be a living hell for them. My eyes well up and my heart bleeds for these young girls.
I'm in the process of launching my own business so my time for extra stuff is very limited. As Khadija states, my priorites should always be myself first. But I do admire all the BWE bloggers for giving so much for the struggle. Within the next year I hope to be able to significantly contribute. I am looking at the suggestions Halima have put out to see what can I do right now, though. God bless all of you ladies!

Halima said...

Icon is that you!

LaSteph said...

@Icon: Thanks for the explanation and I just wanted to let you know that you personally made me toss out my black clothes (I had A LOT and was not even aware of it) after reading your article and now dress in feminine, soft pastels or nice neutrals. I have never gotten so many compliments! I used to think that acting feminine was enough but now I have completely stopped "othering" myself.

To all the other BWE writers, I wanted to tell you that I appreciate how you moderate your sites so that BW can talk amongst themselves and not have the conversation derailed. I know reading and sifting through troll mail probably sometimes makes you guys batty!

Faith said...

@Icon -- The core BWE messengers want more black women with focus, determination and honesty to help spread BWE messaging in ways that are non-obtrusive or won't otherwise expose themselves too greatly to the DBRs to younger black girls and women. To just cover some of the basic that let them know they are valued, that many non-black men will adore them, to not get caught up in perpetual servitude and to focus on becoming fluid with moving in higher-caliber social circles and networks. These things can be done little by little depending on who's receptive. And of course send them to our sites so they can review these tenets on their own. And let them know if they do find the information useful to pay it forward by telling other women and also to support the forums that shared the information. That's a great start.

Anonymous said...

Before I start -

I would love to see this Rev. Lisa's blog. How does one get invited to a closed blog? I would assume she opens it every now and then to get fresh voices into the discussion.

Anyway, moving on, I too would like to get the word out in BWE, and I love the new website. Here are some ideas:

1. I wonder if a short video, about 10 mintues, explaining the basic principles, could be posted on youtube? Something funny and entertaining, and pretty gentle – something that can make you chuckle and get a lot of hits. Imagine if a BWE video went viral? A video just intriguing enough to get indoctrinated BW thinking and talking and be sure to have the address of the new website at the bottom of the screen.

2. Not many people want to go 'off-line' - I'm happy just reading the blogs in the morning -, but it occurs to me that meetup groups can be private - meaning they can have private memberships. Also there is a service called Ning - as in ning.com - that have VERY private groups, as in nobody can search your name and find out about your membership, if you're in a ning group- at least that's what I've heard. Many BW still have heavily indoctrinated ‘friends’ and family, so this might be a good option.
My idea is for people in real 'hotbeds' like Atlanta and Washington DC to start meeting foff line, face to face - even if just for fellowship and coffee. I think online is wonderful and should obviously continue, but something special happens when you meet people face to face.

3. This might be just a personal thing, but as much as I love all the IR dating tips, I would also love to always make sure an emphasis on the non-IR dating stays a part of BWE. For a couple reasons –

There are women who are still against IR who might be open to another part of the message – like the ‘stop being a mule’ message, or resisting the ‘keeping it real’ stuff – and as soon as they see WM/IR mentioned they get nervous. I actually heard on a ‘regular’ black blog once, BWE described as White Male Empowerment! To this person, the bwe bloggers ‘worship’ white men. Now we all know this is idiotic, but this is closing a lot of women’s minds before they even visit the sites. There’s more than one ways to skin a cat. Get ‘in’ through the back door – introduce and debate a topic they can see and sort of agree with, and they will eventually reach the conclusion many of us have on their own (or so they think).

The other reason I was very glad to see non-IR dating stuff emphasized on the new black women truth site is because some of us are already in IR, or open to it, but are doing other craziness that we weren’t aware of – lifting up fat acceptance, over involvement in the church, sister solidering, not looking at addiotinal income streams in these troubled times, allowing family members to mooch off of us, wasting time trying to ‘save alla our people’ not understanding political ‘Inception’ as Khadija called it in this post :

sojournerspassport.com/inception-and-african-americans/

Whew! There are a LOT of issues wrapped up in this thing . . . .


4. I would love to see something – a website?- for middle and high school girls – they are really in a position to change their lives and avoid a lot of mistakes. I have no ideas as to what this would look like, but there you go. What would the average BG, obsessed with niki minaj and beyonce – what would make her stop and click on the site, tweet and tell her friends? It’s something to think about – how to get ‘em while they’re young.

- Ali

squarlymade said...

“It is amazing that black girls are expected to succeed regardless of what is thrown their way and they are then judged against this benchmark and criticized severely if they don’t, 'against all odds' succeed. No other race of women would be criticized for failing under conditions under which failure is overwhelmingly likely, yet young black girls are!”

Yes, I agree. And you would expect this from outsiders. But from other black women who are supposed to be interested in uplifting black woman, it makes me wonder. Are they just trading the ‘acting black crew’ for the ‘acting bwe/bwir crew’.
The black women empowerment message is something that resides in the hearts of many AA women-even women who haven’t even come across a bwe bloggers yet. It doesn’t just belong to a group. I know it resided in my heart for a long time before I came across Evia’s blog. When I was reading her words, it was as if I was reading my own thoughts- unashamed and unadulterated on a page. To see them was confirming. I was excited, I realized these thoughts (my thoughts) weren’t coming from a rebellious confused person, but other bw were assured of them as well.
I have a desire to help uplift black women to be empowered. For me, I want black women to achieve, to do great things, meet great people, do every and anything wonderful, but most of all I just want them to be free. In mind, body and spirit. Free to be human, free to fall to get back up, to reinvent themselves-just free. I believe if black women just stayed as far away from black men as they could-things would be for us, as it is with every other women and if we’d position ourselves to achieve and choose the best quality non-black man-things for black woman would overwhelmingly be better for us then any other woman in the world (black woman are so talented and resourceful).
I say black men because I think the term ‘dbr’ waist time, and is elusive. For instance, I married a man, he was great by normal standards-I would not have called him damaged beyond repair. He didn’t drink cuss, smoke chew-hang around those that do, but when it came down to being able to handle the pressures of being a husband and father…that’s something that you not only need to be modeled but also imparted. And if you don’t got it, you don’t got it! He wanted to have it-he just didn’t. I don’t think black women need to waist time being around any black men. Even if there are some good ones- let them find their way to someone else-just incase.
I am hoping and expecting that this message makes it to mainstream. Specifically the work that Evia has been doing on her blog. I think it needs to end up in history books as part of the startup and framework for BWE history, and It will-that’s what I see. I’ve learned so much about how things have come to be the way they are today. I didn’t learn these things in my high school or college classes. Now if I would have learned them in high school-I could have done some damage (against this force attacking black women).
Style wise I must be one of those people who need some mental help, because I just love looking at bw-wm couples-lol!. I like things girly, feminine, and intimate. It’s nice to come across black women who are feminine.

squarlymade said...

There are blogs that regardless of the style I feel from time to time disperse fears, that the ‘acting bwe crew’ quickly pick up on and then run with it without thought. One such fear is that if you marry an older man-he’s just with you so you can be his nurse-my thoughts are if you can trade in your youth card for a well-to-do ‘QLL’ man-that’s a good thing! Something else that is annoying- is environments on blogs where you respond to the message and it’s made not to be a growing and learning experience where each person learns form the nest and adds on- but an environment where bw only check in to say “oh, yeah, me to’-‘that’s what I do’ or ‘did’ and then go on and on about how ‘most’ bw don’t do this.
Thank you Halima for your post. I’ll add more later-first I’ll let someone read it, misinterpret it and then wrongly quote me, and I’ll respond to that-LOL.

ak said...

LaSteph:

To all the other BWE writers, I wanted to tell you that I appreciate how you moderate your sites so that BW can talk amongst themselves and not have the conversation derailed. I know reading and sifting through troll mail probably sometimes makes you guys batty!


Exactly LaSteph. The derailing is dead wrong and that's what bugs me about certain other blogs run by BW even if those blogs aren't the 'black entertainers' gossip' blogs: They never stop the trolls in their tracks which gives the trolls the run of things after a while.

I'm sure this is why Aimee(?) with her Black Girls Rule blog was stopped dead in her tracks most of the time because she just let the ABC trolls just run roughshod over her website and its comments. I wish more BW with blogs that do sound sensible most of the time, or even just some of the time would adapt more of Evia's or Khadija's principles and patrol the speech on their blogs' comments.

If I went to a Klan or skinhead blog and preached about 'black power' or on behalf of black people I would expect to be deleted, banned, and made unable to comment on there again. Hey it is what it is. BW have the right to patrol their own work!

Karen said...

Ali,

You have some great ideas there, so which one do you plan to make happen?

Faith said...

@Ali What's stopping you from implementing some of the things you're suggesting? Other women need to step up and do their part.

A Youtube video might be interesting but it will still need to be supplemented at the blog level because of the interaction and participation necessary.

Again, for those who are actively participating in the BWE forums getting the core concepts comes with the territory of doing the internal work necessary to make those changes. Most black women have shown they're not willing to do that.

As far as not emphasizing IR dating and marriage. There is no room for holding up the dead black community/black male investment propaganda if BW are to be truly free. The BWE message is about seeking out higher-caliber men who will most likely be white, not any random white guy. If you fail to understand the difference (which it seems you do by even suggesting this) you still have some work to do with implementing BWE messaging. It takes time but time is not on the BW's side to stop self-limiting and throwing obstacles in her way to improving her life.

Halima said...

Ali my dear i sincerely implore you to put some sketch together of what could be done and if after the sketch the job can be broken down into it constituet steps i see no reason why folk cannot jump on board!

It sounds like a dream idea, however the brain is running a bit slow these days (too much coffee and yes wine!) and i woundt even be able to come up with the first sentence of how it could be designed. but as you have some intitial ideas, maybe we can chip on on that basis.

Halima said...

I am also looking for someone to run the BWE blogtalk radio.

Imagine having a place were various BWE are called to interview and all engage in lively debate every month etc. We could quite easily gather a following of thousands within a short while, but it involves technical skill, planning and sceduling skills per excellence!

Halima said...

in terms of bwe and 'ego', it is true that if you have been blessed to be part of a noteworthy mission as maybe a leader or pioneer you must fight to keep ego away from the door.

A leader is known (in my estimation), for their ability to not be led by ego pullings and this is the test upon which many many leaders and anything up to 90% of black leadership fails. i think maybe the fact that black folk feel wider devlaution means they are even more prone to failure in this are and also the fact that many black people do not know how to respond appropraitely and 'healthily' to leadership (its either worship or constant undermining)

I also want to add that i and many other BWe writers sense an undercurrent of resentment towards ourselves even from those who follow us and claim to be in on the work or our freinds and facebook pals! Maybe we are deemed to have it all figured out, to have managed to get on some great gravy train etc etc, but it is just something very troubling.

If BWE feel unsupported in the scheme of things, particularly if they are not excatly being paid to be disrespected then there is a tendency to be abrupt and short. Most folks see the 'abruptness' and never sense the other underlying bits which BWE workers experince even from those who make demands on their time and effort. And dont forget that BWE are also going through life as well as everyone else, they have their moments of sadness, disappointent, happiness, worry, fear...indeed they are human. Folks who are mature in their connection to this work, understand this basic human element and can excuse and shrug off certain events from time to time. indeed BWE writers cannot be perfect, they can be human.

Anonymous said...

Hey Karen –

Thank you –it’s ironic you ask, I’m just about to force myself to take a break from the blogs for a few weeks. It’s like giving up chocolate! There’s a networking thing coming up that I have to get ready for, my future father in law coming to town next week and my place is mess and laundry undone, personal goals I’ve been lagging with, taxes – you get the idea. I’m happy to comment and actively contribute when I DO read the blogs (instead of doing the lurking thing) but I don’t have time for much beyond that. I could probably MAKE time by giving something else up, but I don’t want too, it’s not my top personal priority right now. Also, I really think when it comes to social movements some people are idea people and others are detail people and others are action people.

I remember Neecy (was it Neecy? If not, excuse me) in particular, but I think there were one or two other commenters, who were fired up to ‘do something’ regarding BWE – they really wanted to be more active in the movement, but they weren’t sure what they wanted to do, they didn’t have many ideas. Well, those are my ideas, feel free to claim them for yourself and run with them. I would be thrilled to see a youtube video with your name on it, Karen


Hey Halima –

I LOVE the idea of a radio show – like an online radio show, like something with podcasts you could download to itunes. I’ll keep brainstorming this stuff over the next few days– if I think of more I promise I’ll email you directly.


Faith –

Um - I don’t know you, but your comment was flat out rude - I’ll be nice and give you a nice response anyway. Some of the BWE bloggers are single, are they not? There’s nothing wrong with that, but if the focus of BWE is really 100% on IR marriage, it would be pretty easy for someone to say “If you guys have it all figured out, where’s YOUR WM?”. Where’s your fairy tale IR marriage? “ They might look at it the same as someone out of shape lecturing others on health, or someone with no money lecturing on how to make money. I don’t see it that way, but some others might.

I remember hearing about that woman who was doing live workshops on IR dating for BW called ‘Free your Mind’ which I thought was really cool. But some of the comments she got was – “ “You’re still unmarried, so obviously it hasn’t worked for you” This all seemed ignorant to me, since marriage is not the end all be all of life existence. And also, people from all walks of life and experiences can give really good advice.

As I said - there’s MORE to BWE than just ‘marry a non-black guy’. There’s all the stuff I noted above. Accepting the end of the BC, ‘ sometimes when people hate you, they join you ‘ stuff – this is all equally important. You could really not know this stuff and already be in the IR relationship and be a mom and everything else.

That’s why you want to emphasize other things ALONG with IR marriage. It all comes together in the end anyway.


- Ali

Pat said...

BWE work does a lot for black women. I use a lot of what I have learned from visiting these sites. You need more visibility ie media. You ladies need to get together and do a large documentary for black women. It is not about money but you ladies deserve it Evia, Khadijah & Halima. It would reach a large audience. Black women worldwide would go out and see it. Mark my words whoever does that will become a very, very wealthy black woman. But whoever does it would have to break it down for the sisters.

Pat said...

Evia said:
This level of scrutiny is ONLY leveled at wm with bw. It's the ONLY type of relationship that provokes a level of maniacal inspection/analysis.

So true. I was talking to this woman yesterday and I was telling her that I went out on a date with this white guy this past Saturday night and her quick response was "you need to make sure that he is dating you for the right reasons" I asked her what she meant and she starting going into wanting you for sex blah, blah, blah. I said to her oh yeah that is because most black men want to do right by us? I told her that black men do it without thought and her response is that they do it because we wont submit to them and that we need to learn how to submit. This is the way that a lot of black women think. They think that if they submit, black men will come home.

Damn, it aint hard to see why so many black women are struggling single mothers. Black women are ancient in their thinking. I told her that you can submit all you want SOME black men just dont want women with your skin, your hair and your features. A lot of black women dont look at these factors.

Look at these Real Housewives franchises. These are supposed to be affluent women. All of the black women are broke. All of the white women are wealthy and you know what a couple of them are married to mega rich black men (Housewives of Miami. One was even on the show the other night telling her girlfriends that she is not worrying about him stepping out on her because she controls his money.

Black women are beautiful. Everyone knows it. The problem is that black women dont know how to use their beauty to their advantage. Non-black women are working it with rich black men. I aint mad at them. Black men's money cant even compare to the wealth of men of other races. So there is a lot of opportunity out there. Black women need to travel, etc.

Also just to end let me tell how pathetic one woman was. I was talking to another woman who I bumped into in the mall and she told me that her girlfriend had gone out last week with a white guy and she said that the woman told her that she did not know how to talk to a white man. I kid you not... LOL

A lot of black women are just sad.

Evia said...

Part 1

I, too, am concerned about the number of bw who read these blogs religiously, but are not ACTIVELY changing their lives.

In the process of operating my 4-4-25 goal program, I am seeing the critical need for bw to be MUCH more mindful and disciplined regarding achieving new goals, in order to live well. As we know, that's so much more difficult when they are around poisonous, self-destructive, do-nothing people online and offline, or even if they're simply around depressed people. But I do not believe that many bw have cut off those people.

As someone mentioned here and I agree-- being around even a few of the wrong types of black people is bad for your emotional health because so many blacks are so fearful, angry, and/or confused, lack self-pride, etc.

I wonder just how many bw readers of these sites are actually making new friends/contacts offline and how are they solidifying these relationships. Are these bw readers actually making it a practice to go to new places and engage in a broader range of activities on a weekly basis?

Honestly, I don't believe that more than a few are doing that. Just based on what I'm able to glimpse from the comments, many bw find it extremely difficult to stop self-segregating because they've been taught to fear and/or distrust every other group of people and also don't trust each other. That's a social nightmare! When I go to the black church near me, I hear the fear that is being taught there--this fear of all others, including blacks of other ethnicities!! That is so crippling to those black children there. These paranoid feelings spring from so many AAs feeling inadequate. They genuinely believe that ALL of these others are out to get over on them or don't like them or look down on AAs. When I point out to them that no one looks down on me because I'm not 'down' there, they tell me I don't understand. LOL! I'm not saying that SOME others don't think they're better or smarter or more than me; I'm saying that if/when I encounter anyone whose thoughts about me don't conform to my thoughts about me, I dismiss those others. As I've pointed out, we are all free to choose the thoughts we have about ourselves, so why would I choose negative thoughts about myself? It's a CHOICE, and if you don't harbor mostly positive thoughts about yourself, you need to make it a priority to examine why and change those thoughts ASAP.

I think Faith's latest post is saying something along these same lines.

Evia said...

Part 2

One thing that I don't love about BWE work is my concern that even some of the BWE/BWIR bloggers and commenters allow the BWE work and these blogs to become a substitute for living the BWE life.

I often wonder how many of the BWIR/BWE readers of these sites are actually dating out (that is, if they want to do so)? BWIR is simply a subset or element in BWE. BWIR does NOT equal BWE. For ex. I was an empowered bw even when I was married to my ex-husband (Nigerian). An empowered bw is dating who she wants to date and/or marries who she chooses. She doesn't need approval or permission from others--though it's nice to have it. An empowered bw chooses what she wants to have in her living well life as long as it uplifts her and promotes her interests.

Anyway, I realize that asking pointed questions like these cause some bw to get upset, but some bw need to be shoved off the pot. Some of y'all need to make it a priority to get the guidance or help you need (IF you need it)and get up off the pot TODAY.

I can only use myself as an example. When I was single, I was out mingling with men who interested me and/OR circles of people who interested me every week. I went out of my way to make that happen. I wasn't LUCKY!!!I constantly went out because I associated with ACTIVE women who constantly went out or were focused in that direction. I refused to get stuck with any gal pals who did nothing. Also, my active pals and I focused a lot of attention and energy on being fit and stylish because if you're going to compete to win, you have to be in shape. That was my LIFESTYLE. I was doing that BOTH time when I met both of my husbands.

There is simply a much higher probability of achieving a goal if you're around others who are goal-oriented towards similar goals.

I do realize that many bw have been badly poisoned from being a black female in a black environment, and you're operating in the slow lane as you recover from the poison.

This is why bw who plan to survive and thrive MUST separate from these poisonous, self destructive, unmotivated, do-nothing others. You need to be on the path with others who are going in your direction or like minded others who will reinforce you and who you can reinforce. 'Birds of a feather flock together.'

Yes, you can do it alone and many people MUST do it alone, but I'm just talking about increasing the probability here. Human beings are social animals for a reason. Support is important. This is why I've talked so much about the intentional community. I do realize that some of you use these BWE sites as an IC.

I think the BWE sites are wonderful, of course, but I suspect sometimes that SOME bw readers use these sites mainly as a form of vicarious lifestyle or for some sort of simulation of a different life.

Halima said...

Evia I am still waiting for you to introduce me to Darrens younger brother...we talked about this last year...whats with this hold up (wink).

tertiaryanna said...

You have some great ideas there, so which one do you plan to make happen?

"What's stopping you from implementing some of the things you're suggesting? Other women need to step up and do their part

I've seen this response since I started reading the blogs, and I wish it were differently handled. To me it always reads like "if all you have is talk, then shut up." It always reads like heckling to me.

I've noticed that, when I read any other issue-related blogs and a reader comes up with an idea, or a recommendation, the comment is filed away and used (or not.)

I've noticed that in the BWE blogs, that's not always the case. When readers make suggestions, it's taken almost like a personal attack against the blogger, and the response is very defensive.

I don't understand why this is happening, but I wish that all of us can understand that not everyone with an idea about a topic can or will implement it. That's not just in BWE areas, but just in life.

People participate with each other and that means that we make suggestions and give advice on things that we're not as equipped to do as the person we're talking to. I've got a great idea for how to feed my city's homeless, but I can't implement it as well as my Mayor. If I were Mayor, I could do it, but I don't want to run for Mayor. I just want to feed the homeless. So I write a letter to the Mayor with my suggestions, or I tell others, because I can't do it myself.

If you are an established blogger, you're more equipped to get the message across than that person with a great idea who is starting from ground zero. If you are an established blogger, you've made a decision with how to spend your time, and others may not be able to do that. We've had posts about OOW childbirth, but none of us are teaching sex ed. It doesn't mean the message was invalid because we weren't personally in the trenches.

end part 1

tertiaryanna said...

part 2

BWE is a huge issue and these are public forums, so even if the people commenting on the board also can't or won't do the idea, there is someone out there who never thought of it, who might.

But there's an undercurrent of hostility that comes across when one person makes a suggestion and the other's response is "well, why aren't you doing it then?" I'm not saying the hostility is intended, but that's the message that's being sent.

Just because someone has an idea that they can't or aren't ready to do doesn't mean that they're non-productive or standing in the way of anyone else's efforts.

It also doesn't mean that anyone is criticizing the ideals or present efforts of the bloggers where the ideas were raised. It doesn't even mean that the bloggers have to use the ideas that were mentioned. But I don't like when accusatory, over-defensive or even smart-alecky responses are given to people who are not instigating an attack. That's how it feels to the person making the suggestion.

This happened to me when I first started reading BWE blogs, and I know it limited my willingness to participate at first. As a result, I got very leery in participating in areas where I thought that I would be attacked or mocked for my ideas, when our underlying goals were the same. So there were times that I chose not to participate.

So its something I'd like people to really reflect upon. If the BWE message is so important (and I think it is) then why be defensive when people make suggestions on how to achieve that goal?

I think there are enough legitimate enemies of the BWE message, that it's counterproductive to label someone as an antagonist unnecessarily, or to treat each other with discourtesy merely for making a suggestion that falls in line with the goals of BWE work.

There's a way to respond to this. "That's an interesting suggestion, but I personally can't take it on. There may be others who can though, and hopefully they'll be able to connect with you and get this done." The message is the same, but without breeding infighting.

Karen said...

"I would be thrilled to see a youtube video with your name on it, Karen"

Dear Ali,

That is very kind of you.

My contributions over the last year or so has been my active participation at Khadija's blogs ,Muslim Bushido and Sojourner's Passport, providing feedback, advice, tips, actionable items and such. Therefore, I have already been paying forward.

Karen said...

TA,

Please extend me the courtesy of addressing me directly if you wish to address a particular comment I made.

I asked because I was curious if Ali had any plans to enact some of her ideas. Her reply was just fine.

It appears that you are reacting negatively based on your filters, and that is also okay but please do not apply other meanings to my question or at least do me the courtesy of asking what I meant before assuming.

Thank you.

tertiaryanna said...

Karen, the comment wasn't referencing either you or Faith directly, although I did use this as an example. I kept your names out of it, as an attempt to not personalize it, so I apologize if it appears that I'm singling you out. It's not about you or Faith. It is about the habit though.

I've seen this behavior crop up since I first started reading BWE blogs, and it was always something that really bothered me. I've only ever seen this at BWE bogs, and that bothers me even more.

I just don't think we have the luxury of creating an in-fighting atmosphere, and the way that (IMO) people (not just in the example shown here, but in general) talk to one another seems to create that environment.

It's creating a tempest in a teacup: if people agree on the details that something is helpful, why get fighty about the fact that the person isn't in a position to take action?

We don't have time for that. I think It's just an unfortunate habit that I wish we ALL could stop.

I didn't specifically address the comments you made in your reply to me, because I'm trying to make a general point, not a point about a particular person. So it wasn't about what was said to Ali, but what I hear being said to readers in BWE forums in general since I've begun reading them, a few years ago.

It's possible that even using Ali's example wasn't necessary, but to me, if I'd said my concern without at least referencing it, it would have looked like I really was only talking about you both but in a passive-aggressive way. I was trying to avoid that, because as I said, it's a behavior I see across many of the BWE-type blogs and I believe that it's damaging and unhelpful.

If it was clumsily done, again, I apologize, but I hope that my broader point can be seen and understood.

Evia said...

Evia I am still waiting for you to introduce me to Darrens younger brother...we talked about this last year...whats with this hold up (wink).

LOL! Halima, remember that Darren and I have been together for a bunch of years. You'll find your guy if you're putting yourself where he's likely to be, and this includes online meeting.

Obviously SOME bw were not interested in Darren or I would most likely have never met him. Their loss! From all he's said, he prefers bw, but was dating an Asian woman before he began dating me. He's not built like the typical 'brotha,' that typical bw melt over, and he doesn't talk or walk like a 'brotha' or do anything like a typical 'brotha,' therefore he was invisible to many bw. Many suitable and potentially compatible wm are completely overlooked by many bw every day.

I've discovered that some wm seem "foreign" to SOME bw. Well-educated wm of a certain class do NOT behave at all like typical bm because their backgrounds are VERY different. This makes some bw uncomfortable with those white guys. He seems very unfamiliar or "white guyish" to them.

Virtually ALL of the bw I knew felt awkward around Darren in the beginning, but as a result of being around him with me, they too now want to meet one of his brothers (if any of them were single.) LOL!

For ex. in his spare time, Darren will fly across the country to photograph a rare bird or butterfly. He's a naturalist. All of his brothers share that interest. It's like a passion with them. Some AAs think that's weird and a waste of time and money. On the other hand, Darren thinks it's odd that some AAs will spend lots of money or even go into debt to dress all of their children in the same color for Easter!! Different backgrounds.

Darren is the intellectual type. Many bw would consider him "boring" because he doesn't do daps, pop jive, or break-dance. Even many educated bw would think this. They wouldn't appreciate his wittiness, his in-depth knowledge about so many subjects, or his ability to provide, ptotect, problem-solve, etc. Even Michelle O. said she didn't think much of Barack when she first met him because he wasn't "hard" or street" enough. She was therefore trying to introduce him to one of her girlfriends!


This is why I keep saying that many bw have to change the way they THINK. They expect to meet a wm--mesh instantly, fall out laughing, get weak-kneed, and if not, they lose interest--even though the guy may be a good candidate for a QLL mate. SMH If a man and woman pass the initial vetting phase, they need to spend time getting to know each other or they SHOULD. That should be a mental exercise, not an emotional or physical one. Other than this, they both can end up passing up a gem.

Khadija said...

Part 1

Tertiaryanna,

You quoted another reader who had said, "You have some great ideas there, so which one do you plan to make happen?"

"What's stopping you from implementing some of the things you're suggesting? Other women need to step up and do their part"

And then you said: "I've seen this response since I started reading the blogs, and I wish it were differently handled. To me it always reads like "if all you have is talk, then shut up." It always reads like heckling to me.

I've noticed that, when I read any other issue-related blogs and a reader comes up with an idea, or a recommendation, the comment is filed away and used (or not.)

I've noticed that in the BWE blogs, that's not always the case. When readers make suggestions, it's taken almost like a personal attack against the blogger, and the response is very defensive.

I don't understand why this is happening, but I wish that all of us can understand that not everyone with an idea about a topic can or will implement it. That's not just in BWE areas, but just in life."

Here's my 2 cents about that:

I believe the different reactions to "Why don't YOU do X, Y, Z" suggestions is rooted in different behavior patterns between different groups. Non-AAs and nonblacks in general have an established pattern of following through on, and actually supporting, what they SAY they think is a good idea.

Non-AAs and nonblacks tend to put their time, energy and other resources where their mouths are. Nonblacks generally don't use up, bleed dry, and sometimes ultimately destroy the people from their collectives who try to serve them.

By contrast, this is what AAs usually do with/to the sincere workers among us. AAs have an established pattern of using and then discarding and then totally forgetting about the other Black folks who act in service to them. We use up the Black folks who are idealistic (perhaps naive?) enough to try to serve our collective interests.

Khadija said...

Part 2

Let's just recall how many AA activists from the 1960s that we collectively and completely forgot about. We allowed many of them to languish in prison for their activism while we totally forgot about their sacrifices on our behalf.

Let me mention an incident from law school that made a deep impression on me. I deciced to attend a National Lawyers Guild meeting about political prisoners in the US. Needless to say, most of the activist-prisoners from the 1960s were Black. And from what I could tell, the only people who had bothered to remember them and organize support on their behalf were White leftists!

White leftists appeared to be the only ones writing letters to Amnesty International on their behalf, etc. Meanwhile, they had been totally forgotten by the masses of AAs and by AA/Black activist organizations. AAs were more interested in following the exploits of rappers.

AAs didn't just forget about the now-obscure AA political prisoners from the 1960s, we forgot about and ignored "big names" like Rosa Parks and Fannie Lou Hamer in their later years. Aside from AAs invoking their names during Black History Month, Rosa and Fannie Lou (and many others) were for the most part (if not totally) on their own in their elder years.

AAs forgot about and left Dr. King's widow and children (and Malcolm X's widow and children) to fend for themselves.

I learned from all of that. I learned that AA/Black activists have to VERY careful to not let Black folks use them up. And bleed them dry. And leave them flapping in the wind as an empty husk. And to be very careful of folks who might be following the AA/Black tradition of leaving Black activists hanging after making a lot of suggestions about what extra things these activists should do (in addition to whatever they're already doing).

Speaking for myself, after seeing how Blacks used and then discarded previous generations of Black activists, I'm very skittish of folks who want to give me what feels like additional homework assignments while they're doing nothing themselves. If the historical context was different, and if AAs didn't have the established pattern of using up our activists, then my reactions would be different (and less skittish).

To my way of thinking, some of the activist reactions to suggestions (from nonparticipants) you're describing aren't about defensiveness or hostility. It's about self-protection, self-care, and self-love.

Oshun said...

Ok, now this is getting weird.

I know I can't speak for someone else, but I didn't take Karen's or Faith's comments in negative ways at all.

It could be said that when someone makes a suggestion like that - they are trying to place demands/pile more work on top of peeps who have already done a lot.

Karen said...

TA,

Thank you for clarifying your statements.

tertiaryanna said...

Khadija,

I agree with what you're saying, and I appreciate that you've provided the historical contexts. There's a need for healthy boundaries, and I know that it means heavily policing those boundaries.

I just wish there we could make clearer distinctions between users and brainstormers because I feel that we're running out of time. Part of me wants to hear as many good ideas as can be put out there, because someone will hopefully pick them up and run with them, even if they can't be done right now.

I am not a blogger, so that's giving me the luxury and protection of not having to decide who is and who is not being, well, a user. If there is someone who isn't helping me in my mission, I can more easily sidestep them because it's people I see in real life, not online, and I have a better sense of who they are. So again, I appreciate your comments.

Evia said...

Part 1

@TertiaryAnna re:

But there's an undercurrent of hostility that comes across when one person makes a suggestion and the other's response is "well, why aren't you doing it then?" I'm not saying the hostility is intended, but that's the message that's being sent.

It's actually good that you brought this up so that various ones of us can clarify our stance on it.

Real Talk here, and I'm warning y'all it's going to make some folks VERY uncomfortable what I'm going to say, but this thread is about what we don't like about BWE work, after all. And I decided a long time ago that I'm not going to talk at all if I'm not going to say what I think is necessary at critical times.

This is a very critical time for bw. This is a turning point.

First, remember that the message receiver is also responsible for how they receive the message. For ex., I get notes from people who misinterpret what I write, but they prefer to believe their own misinterpretation. LOL!

Anyway, I also constantly get notes from SOME bw saying, "Evia, you need to write about this or post that," and I get notes from bw who want me to present their potentially inflammatory material on my site, partly because if there's any pushback, they can, in a sense take cover behind Evia. LOL!

Of course, they don't tell me that. Instead of saying, "I'm scared to set up a blog and say it myself because the cyber gangs may gang up on me," they think they can smooze me into doing it.

I don't respond to MOST of them or don't respond positively (though I'm not rude) because as I've had to remind lots of folks: "It's not my responsibility to save alla our people. Or, "I'm not a martyr, mammy, or mule." Neither am I a sista soldier on the front lines fighting white hegemony (because males are the primary fighters of other males, if any fighting is to occur). That's not who I am.

I do realize that we don't all have the same amount of skill in a particular area or don't have the same platform at this time, and we definitely don't have the same amount of courage, however, the overwhelming most of readers of these sites are not doing ANYTHING or they could do more to help the cause. (If this doesn't apply to YOU, then it should roll off your back.)

Evia said...

Part 2

I've gotten several millions of bloghits on my various sites and I'm sure that many of those hits are coming from repeat visitors. Of course, I know that some of those visitors are haters or neutral, but many of them are bw who simply soak up this info and don't reciprocate.

And to respond to Khadija's statements about ungrateful AA folks, let me just say that other groups of people who I mingle closely with or am familiar with (MOSTLY middle income, educated whites and Africans and upwardly mobile Hispanics) do not allow their own folks, let alone anyone else to receive and not give back. They do NOT allow it. They set up accountability and reciprocity systems, so that that won't happen.

So with this comment, I'm setting up an accountability & reciprocity system and I'm going to also put this same message on my site. Enough is enough.

If even half of our readers were to contribute even one hundredth of the value in money of what this BWE information is worth to most of them, then there would be no need for any of the major BWE writers to attempt to devise all of these "different income streams" because they would be rolling in money, by NOW.

And/Or we could have established a substantial financial foundation by now that could fund lots of projects that commenters are suggesting that BWE bloggers and others do for FREE.

I personally do not want to hear the "Amens" any more. I personally am suspicious of folks in the "AMEN" corner because I believe that the "Amen" folks are mainly or nothing but hot air.

The reason I started advocating years ago in my blogs for bw to demand concrete reciprocity is because I saw and heard how so many BLACK folks (bm and bw) claim, "We LOVE bw" or "our sisters," but they don't DO a damn concrete thing for those sisters that they claim to LOVE, or not anything of VALUE.

I, too, have been on the front lines fighting for bw offline, only to have practically every single bw fade like smoke when the conflict got hot, claiming that they didn't really "understand" what they were doing. LOL! This has actually happened 3 times to me in my life. Unreal!

We need a way to hold black folks ACCOUNTABLE for their "love." If not in any other way, MONEY is a way of holding people accountable and this is mainly why it was invented as the primary method of exchange/reciprocity. In other words, in the real world, if you really appreciate something, you PAY for it, or you don't get it.

So, let's talk about what I consider "hostility." It's a form of hostility to me when people take and don't give back. That's a lack of reciprocity and it leaves me wondering just how much more is this person willing to USE me.

Evia said...

Part 3

So, from now on, I don't want to hear that some of y'all can't afford to donate money to SOME of the BWE bloggers like Halima, Khadija, Faith, or Me. I don't read any other sites, so I can't vouch for the quality or value of the info presented on any of those other sites.

I don't believe that y'all can't afford it. I believe that everyone reading this right now can afford to send at least $25+ to Khadija (for her premium content), Halima, Faith, or to me (if you're not already doing it). You KNOW that the info we're imparting is worth 100x+ that to y'all. Never mind that we don't ASK for it, you should still send it because you are receiving value from other bw--just like DBRbm who don't reciprocate.

The bottom line is that if you are receiving uplifting, life-altering value from what we or anyone does, you SHOULD happily pay for it. That's a form of showing that you're willing to be accountable for your "Amens." If you're a bw and you're not receiving value or don't want to pay for it, then STOP reading these BWE sites. Other than that, you are a USER of bw's time and energy, just like some of the other users out there.

So, I'm going to say this here. I'm one of the recipients of Khadija's highly researched niche premium content info. Much of it is specifically geared to uplift and broaden bw and therefore virtually priceless at this critical time for bw, and she sends it out a couple of times a month. I want her to continue to do so. That info adds value to my life and adds tremendous value to other bw, so I'm willing to financially support her efforts for those reasons. Much of it is specifically geared to uplift bw in all kinds of ways at this critical juncture. I've felt guilty about getting that carefully researched info and not paying her for it. I want her to continue working, but she's not a slave; she shouldn't work for FREE.

Yes, I've already bought her book, but I KNOW that's not enough. I'm going to donate $50 dollars to Khadija, because I want her to keep me on her subscription list AND keep churning out BWE info for other bw. I KNOW that when other bw are uplifted, that also uplifts ME.

Khadija, I'll send the money to your email address via Paypal, and I wish you would set up a formal subscription to your premium--because it's so valuable to bw. It's a periodical that should continue,and it would be a wonderful income stream for you as you lie on the beach in Pago Pago. LOL!

If you don't get the money from me in the next 30 days, I want you to remove me from that list. I am serious because I don't want anyone to think I'm simply HOT AIR like so many other ungrateful, free-loading, hot-air spouting AAs.

Evia said...

And Halima, thank you for these two posts allowing us to say thanks as well as to critique some aspects of BWE work.

We must SHOW gratitude and simultaneously make sure that we receive reciprocity. Accountability and reciprocity are critical planks in the BWE platform, IMO. I don't want to be a part of anything that doesn't have those planks embedded AND practiced at the core. I show gratitude and insist on reciprocity with the others I mingle with in my offline life, and I'm very content with my life. When we show gratitude, we also open ourselves up to receive. As my grandmom used to say, "A closed hand (fist) doesn't let anything out, but nothing gets in either."

So many bw THINK they're asking and they THINK they're open to receive, but they really just don't GET IT.

For ex., if a bw cooperates with her oppressors by being fat, unphysically fit, dull, distrustful for no good reason, has a mind full of junk and is therefore unable to hold a conversation, unfriendly, self-segregates, etc. she has NOT opened herself up to receive the bounty from QLL men. Definitely, the QLL type of man who I frequently talk about is not wired to respond positively to that type of woman of any group. Keep in mind that in my world, non-QLL men of any group are NOT relevant, so I don't care about the type of women they want or pursue.

That's another thing. The way I see it, bw of the Sojourner mentality are going to have to relegate many people as being non-relevant. Most other thriving groups DO that. Everyone cannot be relevant to YOU. They don't tell you that, but they do. If you can rule out the non-relevant ones, you will then be better able to focus most of your mental energy on those people who ARE relevant. You should be able to state in a few words why any person is relevant and valuable to you.

Evia said...

Part 5--Last part (LOL!)

And Khadija, I remember how you wrote an essay last year criticizing other black ethnicities, Asians, Hispanics, etc. for scooping up the gravy from the fruits of AAs struggles in this country and not reciprocating. I pointed out to you at that time that it's BECAUSE AAs simply give away the equivalent of diamonds without demanding anything in return. Then AAs get angry when others don't voluntarily reciprocate. LOL! I pointed out then that that's very childish and naive of AAs to operate like that.

I don't operate like that. So, I'm also going to ask that everyone on Khadija's currently FREE premium content list to donate $50 (in installment payment, if necessary).

Many of y'all keep talking about setting up this and that for BWE, but if we want quality BWE vehicles, we will have to pay for them. I don't pay much attention to what y'all say because I don't believe you're serious. When people are serious, they start talking with their time, energy, and their money.

I know that Khadija may disagree with me, but I don't want her to send out premium content for FREE anymore. Yes, we may also be 'paying it forward' in other ways, but that's simply helping ourselves as a group. What exactly are we doing for Khadija? I honestly do not want to receive any more of that info for FREE. I know that no woman from ANY other group would be sending out that type of specific info to me for FREE. Among the whites and Africans I know, that kind of quality content would go only to those who are accountable and on board.

I've paid for a lot of garbage in my life, so I'm not going to accept your premium content for FREE any more. It takes time and effort to even send someone an email, so you could be using that time and energy for your own self-care and self-uplift.

I'm not in this for talk and NO ACTION. I'm saying to y'all to either put up or shut up. And keep in mind that if ANY of you were to start up something that I personally considered valuable, I'd be saying this on your behalf too.

AA women don't have or keep valuable organizations and folks working on OUR behalf because as Khadija pointed out: we do not hold them accountable, demand reciprocity or show our gratitude by supporting them in concrete ways for more than a minute if at all. So, we're going to support those of us in this "movement" or I'm out. I'm not down with BS.

Adrienne said...

Shoot, if someone has an idea that they think is that good, they should find a way to implement it themselves, even if it can only be done a little at a time. Why should someone else get the credit and reap the rewards of my good idea?

If the movement truly is about life and death, I'm sure time and effort could be found to expand the movement in the lives of everyone here who has time to surf the Internet and write comments.

Karen said...

I 100% co-sign with Khadija and Evia's statement. To Evia's statement of paying for information, I will also pay for the life-saving information.

The reality is that "the many cannot expect to continue to ride the backs of the few."

Frankly, with the way things are, I hope the BWE bloggers focus more time on the their own lives and those who are willing to step up to help support the message should do so.

If not, then it is confirmation that the BWE bloggers should focus their time and energy on the few that do sincerely want to change their lives.

Halima said...

Hmmn

deep knowlege is being dropped here i tell ya!

I agree that often times you have to push ideas out there hoping some other person with more 'talent' or time will go forth and do. I do that all the time. I dont know how to podcast and dont have the time even, and so i push out the idea there so that someone who can can run with it will do so.

all hands on deck

I also agree that bw and bp are used to things being done by others and often dont see themselves as the doers.

a couple of years ago i attended a church were the black folk had essentially positioned themselves as 'recivers' from the whites in the church. I didnt know this when i arrived, but i set about pitching in as i have been raised to do...it caused havoc because the white folk in the church didnt know how to place me and the black folk were fearful that the gravy train that they milked because of the 'I am soo needy help me white person', notion, was about to grind to a halt, as the white folk realized that blacks were not as 'helpless' as they always tried to position themselves. well you can guess why I am no longer there. ultimately both groups had begun to colluded to maintain this arrnagement.

at least carry your own weight!

This is what I urge bw.

regarding our civil rights folk who died in misreable conditions Khadija you are totally right. reason 1001 why black community is a disaster and everyone with an ounce of sense should flee and have nothing to do with the current formulation of Black Community.

And Evia trust that you are speaking to me too because even as a BWE writer I can say that I have gained much more than I have given out (which is as it should be) and I also need to give financially to those who have blessed me so that i dont operate under a curse (because thats essentially what happens when you get blessed and dont give back and we who are christians know this is a biblical priciple). So i shall be making my own arrangements to bless BWE financially. see I was raised propely for sure, to appreciate good works, I only forgot and evia reminded me lol!

I might not be cash rich (a matter of time), but folks are trying to find out what my secret is and it is from participating the BWE empowernment work.

Lets face it, if I and others gave up Cappucino for lent or proposed to buy one less shoe this year, we would be able to bless the socks off a BWE writer who has enabled us recieve over $1000 worth of info. Not just that Evia, as you said some of the stuff that we keep talking about will be easily financed.

I want to admit to being given financially by some of y'all who know yourselves (God bless you all).

white men in particular have been the major gift givers. I mean Fancy that!

Khadija said...

*REAL TALK Alert!*

Evia,

I deeply appreciate your call to action, but NO---I DON'T want anybody sending me money for my premium content---please DON'T do that!!!

Here's the primary reason why:

As a Black business owner, I don't believe in trying to do serious business with "typical" AAs/Blacks. It never works right for the reasons (I've outlined in depth at my blog). I refuse to do business with slaves in that direct fashion. A Black business owner who tries to do direct business with slaves is only setting themselves up to be sabotaged by those slaves.

A reader at my blog previously described the AA slaves' behavior pattern regarding Black businesses: First the slaves pretend to be excited about the Black business endeavor. Then, they start backbiting it. Then, they work their fingers to the bone to pull it down.

I'm already an online business owner. My side business is totally oriented toward mainstream, NON-Black consumers. I don't want hateration-type AA slaves to have any possible openings to do any sabotage that could potentially spill over onto my side business.

That's the primary reason why I don't mix any direct exchanges for money with my BWE activism. I know that there are legions of DBRBM, disgruntled colored girls, and other trolls who would looove to have an opening to file false complaints to the Better Business Bureau, etc. about me out of spite. If I accepted money for the BWE premium content, doing so would give bad-faith slaves a lever to use to potentially impact/sabotage what I'm doing with my side business.

Keeping the premium content free protects me from the disgruntled colored girls and other Black haters.

I know that I have to protect my side business from MOST of the people in the reading audience. As Halima noted, there's an undercurrent of resentment toward many BWE bloggers. Even from audience members who aren't full-blown trolls or haters. That's why my name is not on my side business. So the haters in the audience will never be able to find it and connect it to me. They can't sabotage what they can't find.

For any Black business owner's self-protection, AA slaves must be kept at arms' length from one's business, and only dealt with via 3rd parties like Amazon.com.

That way, when the hateration-AA slaves falsely claim to have a problem or issue about their order, they have to take it up with the 3rd party such as Amazon.com. And the Black business owner is removed from the main "line of fire" from hateration AA slave-consumers.

Khadija said...

Part 2

There are secondary reasons why I don't want money in exchange for the premium blog posts:

(1) I don't want folks to be able to dismiss the reciprocity lesson as actually being about "money-grubbing." I know that this is how AA slaves think; and I want them to genuinely learn what reciprocity means. AND

(2) I'm already a business owner, and my online business is totally oriented toward majority, NON-Black consumers. I want the Sojourner's Passport social activism blog to pay for its own upkeep (through book sales), but it's not like I'm trying to use the blog to put food on my table.

Let me emphasize that I don't feel that there would be anything wrong with accepting donations or making the blog paid-subscription only. Other folks---people who are not African-Americans---understand how it's often necessary to pay for valuable, life-enhancing information. Sadly, most AAs are simply too primitive and slave-minded for that---they don't want to pay any other Black person for anything sensible.

It's an interesting paradox: Most African-Americans are cynical and yet gullible at the same time. We're quick to interpret any other Black person seeking fair monetary compensation for their life-enhancing work as somehow inappropriate. Yet, we're simultaneously delighted to throw piles of money to all sorts of useless Black (mostly male) hustlers who are peddling less than useless wares such as Steve Harvey, most AA male pastors/imams, etc.

So, even though it would be perfectly appropriate to charge for the information I provide, I don't want to do that. In addition to the concerns I mentioned in Part 1 of this comment, I believe charging for premium content would actually work against the reciprocity lesson that I'm trying to teach.

It would make it too easy for indoctrinated AA slave-women to dismiss the reciprocity lesson as just an attempt to "get over." Which is what they're inclined to think, because they don't understand the idea of reciprocity. All they understand is exploitation. Either from the perspective of the user or as the person being used. How very sad . . . and downright savage.

Faith said...

@Ali I have my own forum and discuss a variety of topics that encompass FULL LIVING. That includes getting the love you deserve and removing the obstacles. Too many BW are still stuck at saying hello to a WM so it has to be addressed!

What blogs are you reading?

The way you posed your comment it sounded like a complaint about our discussing BW/WM relationships. Which as you know is of great interest to a LOT of people -when it comes to preventing them!

This is not about a married woman needling unmarried women. I'm single -- but I don't intend on remaining single. Which is the point for the conversations. This is not about touting any random WM but a higher-caliber mate. BW have to be one to get one!

So take a moment and consider all of the ramifications for other women who may not be at your level of boredom or irritation with the topic and who still to get useful information.

I can't wait to see what projects you come up with. Do let us know when you have something ready to implement!
----------

@Anna -- The point of responding to those who comment about doing something is to encourage women to FOLLOW THROUGH. I've been blogging since 2008. This may sound short to you, but it's time for BW to get off the pot and do something. It doesn't have to happen TODAY but one step towards a goal is better than standing still. Too many BW are simply WAITING! Being an established blogger meant we had to start somewhere and keep going. We have noted many BW are not!

As far as teaching sex ed, etc. the first priority is for a girl to not have her soul crushed so that she's not willing to accept crumbs as normal. Also, you've got a handful of bloggers with careers, families and other concerns. WE cannot be responsible for doing everything!

This is why other women need to step forward and share the load. Otherwise you're proposing we "save the community". That's not the BWE message! Besides as you see from reading this thread we're getting frustrated women venting at us for what we do, they way we do it, how we phrase it, enacting standards and how much we take on!

THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

You are expecting the BWE initiative to be run like other black-oriented do-nothing orgs. That's why it's vastly different. We're expecting RESULTS and for all of you to make a serious, concerted effort at change. It doesn't have to be perfect or figured out A-Z but something must be done!

If these forums were gone what would some of you ladies be doing?

--------

@Evia I just read through the added comments. Thank you for laying it out so eloquently. This addresses those who are "frustrated" about the manner in which they're being given life-affirming information FOR FREE but so far have not RECIPROCATED IN KIND. It's something we all need to think about!

Evia said...

@Khadija re--

It would make it too easy for indoctrinated AA slave-women to dismiss the reciprocity lesson as just an attempt to "get over."

I hear you, but since I don't have an online business for DBR slaves to sabotage, I'm going to do me. There's nothing they can do to sabotage me and trust me, they have tried EVERYTHING including threatening me and trying to get me arrested for simply advocating bw to vet all men and ONLY mingle with, date, mate, and marry QLL men.

Nothing else.

Which is what they're inclined to think, because they don't understand the idea of reciprocity. All they understand is exploitation. Either from the perspective of the user or as the person being used. How very sad . . . and downright savage.

Yes, and since exploitation is the only language they speak, they will attract exploiters. That's pure and beautiful karma.

And to put this on a more positive note, since I speak the language of reciprocity and accountability, I attract people who speak that language. I instantly separate from and avoid ANYONE who doesn't speak that language. They are not relevant to me. That's exactly the point I've tried to make in many of my essays. You get from the universe what you give to it. These modern day slaves (not to be confused with our captured ancestors) are their own worst enemy, so they will do themselves in.

So this is a perfect analogy.

To make it more clear. If any one of you goes into a forum in a place like NYC where there's a wide mixture of people and start speaking Spanish, the Spanish speaking people will respond to you and start moving toward you. Likewise, if you start speaking Igbo, Hindu, or Polish, people who speak that language will move toward you.

I know that many people think it's more complex than that, but it's not. The goal is to learn to speak the language of the type of people you want to attract and totally ignore those people who speak a different language because they are not likeminded. After a while, those types will be invisible to you.

So only those bw readers who speak my language will respond to my comments BY DOING and those who are BSing won't. This is how AA women will eventually separate.

I would rather be with 5 people who speak the language of accountability and reciprocity than be with 500,000 who are BSing. This is who I am. I do NOT want to hear from anyone who doesn't speak my language. Time has run out. I don't want to hear from anyone ANYMORE if you're not willing to SHOW that you speak my language. And if I could, I would prevent any others (addicts, obsessed DBRs, mentally crippled Negroes, BSers, etc.) from coming to my site.

zoopath said...

@Evia: Thank you so much for bringing up money. That is my preferred way of showing support to people/entities. I'm not going to start blog or seek out anyone to mentor for that matter either. However, I will financially support content/services that I value. I love financially supporting BW-owned businesses. I just bought your 3rd book on reciprocity. I have already learned to think about reciprocity but perhaps visitors to my home will read up the book and learn something.

@Khadija: Your policy re: money and your BWE works sounds very prudent. Folks will spend lots of time trying to destroy something positive that you built rather than build something of value for themselves. Still, I do feel guilty for not being able to reciprocate in the manner I'm most comfortable with.

@Halima: I hadn't noticed the donate button on your side bar but I just donated to show my appreciation for your work. I still giggle at the thought of your "Who's Zoomin' Who" essay.

zoopath said...

@Faith: Thank you for confronting foolishness and willful ignorance. When I've had a little tickle in the back of my mind that a certain situation or arguement doesn't seem right, your essays precisely describe what's rotten in Denmark. I also made a donation to your site to show my appreciation for your work.

Halima said...

Zoopath thank you for immedaitely putting into action what we are talking about and proving to be a model for how to support BWE work.

Your rewards will not pass you by!

tertiaryanna said...

"This is why other women need to step forward and share the load. Otherwise you're proposing we "save the community".

Faith, we are in total agreement about your first sentence, but your second is precisely illustrating my concerns.

I agree, we all need to be doing something. Things are bad, and time is running out. I feel like time IS out, for us as a collective, and that the running time is for those people willing to make personal changes. That feeling of only a handful remaining is what's behind my concern.

I completely understand that the bloggers are doing something public, and that's opening them up to a level of inquiry and scrutiny that others don't have to face in their advocacy work. I can accept that some of what I was seeing was as hostility was, as Karen mentioned, "through my own filters."

But fundamentally, I don't think that every person who makes a suggestion is implying that they're not doing anything or that you have to do what's being suggested. You don't even have to listen to what they say. You don't even have to post their comments (all blogs have moderation capabilities.) But it's not necessary to fight them just over the fact they said it to you.

I think it's borderline bad faith, not to mention rude, to accuse someone of being a troll, an ikette, or trying to make you else a mule. Or to engage in any name calling or mockery when someone makes a suggestion.

I want to be clear: I have no problem with someone saying: "I'm saying no because I'm doing a lot and I don't want to be a mule for BW."

I don't like when someone says: "you want to make me a mule". It's assuming intent and punishing them for that assumption.

So my concern is when the bloggers make that assumption that "suggestion=do it so we don't have to."

For example, a lot of people suggested Khadija write a book. I'm sure some of that was because people felt like they couldn't do it (and so, will never try.) I agree with you - that's bad, because we need more people to try.

But a lot of people suggested it because they could see that the free work was excellent, and could be something that gave her income. I don't think that's bad.

If when people made that suggestion, she name-called both groups, treating them all like users and takers, IMO it would not be healthy for the BWE community, even if the book had still been done.

I see, reinforced by Khadija's comments that some people are users, especially in BC issues. But not everyone. The issue for me is when everyone gets treated like a problem, and I still believe there's a way to use discretion with enforcing boundaries.

End part 1

tertiaryanna said...

Part 2
I think that you and I agree on the need for action, but there is a way to say no. Noone here is forcing anyone to do anything, so it's not necessary to fight our way to no.

We talk about the "sister soldier" and "angry Black woman syndrome" a lot. I feel like the habit of shouting "No!" is a manifestation of that. I agree with the need to say no. I don't agree with the indiscriminate use of heat behind it.

I can accept that blogging has a specific set of demands and boundaries, and that it's a lot of work. However, I don't think that just because something is hard means that the normal bounds of human discourse get thrown out.

There is a huge difference between coddling someone, and being polite. Similarly, there is a difference between:

"I've personally got my hands full, and we need all the help we can get. Hopefully this is something you can do, or can find someone willing to take on this suggestion. Good luck."

instead of:

"You're just trying to make me a mule!"
"Nobody's stopping you!"

Because that's not how we'd say it to each others faces. Why introduce it to the ONLY area where we are trying to uplift ourselves and each other?

The attitudes in the BWE blogs are modeled to those readers emulating what is being said there. The young BW (we hope) model their behavior not just on how we tell them to interact with the world, but on how we interact with each other. Treating each other with basic courtesy is part of that.

So I don't think that just because BWE blogging is a lot of work means that we should be less mindful of basic policy and civility.

By all means, don't say yes to everything, or even most things. Do remind others that their input is necessary, not just needed. But minus the antagonism. I think that when people learn HOW to say no, they don't need the extra zing of antagonism. Even a suggestions policy could get that point across (like a comments policy, but for suggestions.)

My concern isn't that people say no (because I do it too.) It's just how.

I just believe that there are so few of us, and that it's a waste of energy if we're creating an environment where we have to defend ourselves against each other from what I see are personal attacks.

One final thing because I don't want to be misread: I'm not talking anything that's been said in the past 30 days on any blog. So this is not a veiled comment over anything recent in the blogosphere. My concerns are as I've said: over the course of reading in the past years.

Faith, I appreciate your comments here. I do agree with you on the need for both urgency and action, and I hope that my point can be seen as something that doesn't take away from those needs.

one more thing:

The flip side of my concern about the bloggers is what Faith mentioned about the readers. That is, there is a heavy responsibility on the readers and commenters side as well, to NOT be a user. And to make suggestions in good faith, not in an effort to pass off work to another BW. Also, to take some clear initiative to advance BW work.

I think I've said my piece and then some, so I'll stop talking about that now. I appreciate everyones comments to me here.

squarlymade said...

I KNOW I’ve given to whomever has touched my life! When I give it needs to be right. I believe in seed time and harvest (spiritually) so when I give-the soil ‘has gots’ to be right! Currently there is someone, a TV evangelist whom (since dollar figures are being mentioned) I’ve given more then a paychecks worth to, more then once, and I make it a habit of given to this ministry because this person has proved time and time again that they are serious about helping others and treating people right. In fact, when the story broke about that really sick ‘minister’ who was having a relationship with those young men, I got out my check book -at that very moment-and sent it to my trusted preacher out of the thankfulness of my heart, because I knew that my TV minister could be trusted and I was so glad that they’d never misused my money. In fact I can count on, and mark absolute miracles taking place from sowing ‘seed’ into this ministry-I can BANK on it! There are many ministries that I give to I can hardly keep up, I’m just referring to MY FAVORIT (and the one the I make a habit of giving to) , because they preach the gospel, which will lead anyone to freedom-and so much more.
But MONEY-is not the only gift that I bring-and it’s not the GREATEST. I have a gifting of bringing things into realization. (In fact I went around to churches doing this for the masses-and totally being selfless- until I realized that I needed to use my gifting for myself, which is what brought me to the bwe message). Did you know that people on this earth have this gifting? I could make your wildest dreams come true (the temperature and attitude have to be right) and I was totally overlooking myself! I’m taking time to build myself up first-which I’ve never focused on. Anyway, yes it’s okay to make suggestions. The flip side of AA taking advantage of people because they are this, that and the other is fear that you’re going to be taking advantage of because maybe you are this, that and the other. I made turkey burgers tonight, and I made the mistake of announcing what it was, and so my daughter announced that she hated turkey burgers(she’s never had them)-I told her to try it and give herself the chance to hate it. Habakkuk 2:2-4 Then the Lord answered me and said: “write the vision and make it plan on tablets, that he may run who reads it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time; But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie. Though it tarries, wait for it; because it will surely come, It will not tarry. “Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; but the just shall live by his faith.”
I know many have they’re own belief system, I believe the word of God makes anyone prosperous- in they’re soul-Christian or not. That’s why I share this. Eat and be satisfied!

Anonymous said...

Ladies,

I have never commented on this blog before. I agree, this is a call to action. I would like to share the following:

1. I am 33, currently live in Southern California and am writing a stage play about the indoctrination of black women from birth to their elderly years. I am looking for people who can help bring it to pass (i.e actors, theatre owners, entertainment lawyers, etc…) preferably in the Southern California area. The play will offer solutions and tools. Although it is still in its infancy, I plan to complete it!

2. I would like to start a BWE Chapter here in Southern California. I say “chapter” but what I mean is a group. The group could include the following events/meetings:

•monthly meet-up sessions (discussions on BWE postings, goal accountability, event planning for future events, etc…)

•hold events about black women and their investments (I attended one of these in Boston years ago and it was a blast)

•mother and daughter image teas

•Volunteering at places where young black girls are in an effort to make them aware of their value, importance and beauty (just to name a few). For example, years ago my friend and I volunteered to talk to black girls ages 7-10 at an Elementary school in Boston about their confidence, self esteem, etc... We also went to the dollar store and CVS and purchased toothpaste, deodorant, and girly stuff to give to them in gift bags. They enjoyed it.

•Offering book scholarships for black female college students

•More suggestions

No, I’ve never had a play produced, but I am willing to do it. I enjoy writing. My main goal is to own my own dinner theater.

These ideas may seem like a lot, but ANYBODY can do one or something similar. It doesn’t matter what state we live in. I would like to see more ideas being added. I know they are out there.

I will be creating an email address and hopefully Halima will allow me to post it here. If so, if you are in Southern California and would like to be a part of this (#1 or #2 above), we can schedule a meet up session. If there is a better way to do this, please let me know.

I really want to be a part of this movement. I will be honest, that Pepsi commercial really did disappoint me. It is time to take OUR IMAGE back. Prior to that commercial I had begun to make changes, hence my move to an affluent area in Southern California. BWE bloggers had a huge part to play in my move. Especially you Evia.

I would like to thank all of the BWE bloggers for their vitamins (words of wisdom). It was due to your postings that I was able to understand and put into words what the heck is going on in the BC and make the necessary changes that would help me to live well.

Thank you all (bloggers,commentors and readers)for your time.

-Mahogany

ak said...

Well a comment or two on here certainly has cleared up a thought I had that has become crystal clear to me now. But it's true that receiprocity should be established a s a given if need be as BWE blogs do take up time and money that I wouldn't be surprised at.

I have a credit card, the only one I'v ever had, to pay off and thankfully it never had a ginormously high limit to begin with, and as I have to balance paying for my studies that I'm actually doing now with working full time. I've had to suffer extreme cuts as soon as the recession happened. I'm not complaining about this at all, but I honestly can't be all 'debit card using' at the moment and I have a credit card to actually tackle. If my particiaption in BWE blogs would have happened five years ago, I'd be in a better position to actually send money with a card.

If any BWE blogger is willing to take money orders/postal orders in order to fund their good work, then I'm more than happy to oblige. But a card can't cut it from me at this point in time *shrugs shoulders*, and that is why it seems that the reciprocal well 'has run dry'.

We're none of us at all mind-readers so the truth is none of us can really tell if an 'Amen' is actually empty and hollow, or not. Nor can we watch each other to see if we're all implementing the good ideas and knowledge gained from these BWE blogs. But trust me, there will be no more 'Amens' from me. I think the message got through pretty clearly enough.

At the risk of coming across as empty, if anyone knows how I could send a money order which of course will be international (with the exception sending it to Halima), then please advise. I hope my information has now finally met with every satisfaction.

ak said...

Khadija:

That's the primary reason why I don't mix any direct exchanges for money with my BWE activism. I know that there are legions of DBRBM, disgruntled colored girls, and other trolls who would looove to have an opening to file false complaints to the Better Business Bureau, etc. about me out of spite. If I accepted money for the BWE premium content, doing so would give bad-faith slaves a lever to use to potentially impact/sabotage what I'm doing with my side business.



Khadija, and I'm not being funny here, but I never thought of it that way before. But you have stressed the sabotaging ways of black/AA consumers before on your blog so this isn't farfetched.

ak said...

Mahogany your idea for a play and an offline chapter of BWE in southern California sound beautiful, but as some BWE bloggers have mentioned in the past it is important for BW who are undertaking this sort of work to protect themselves by any means necessary as they themselves usually sight unseen have been attacked online most vehemently. This is why they patrol their blogs for 'trolls' who derail the blogger's posts and disrespect other commenters. One blogger has already mentioned that somebody tried to get her arrested?! If she was serious, arrested for what?? Hey, Klan members, skinheads, and terrorists who memorize the Anarchist's Cookbook are online too are they getting arrested? Or are they allowed to still freely speak?

This is all just shocking about the things I've been hearing over time Mahogany (wow!), but if you are serious about your plans in CA then I want to advise you to please PLEASE be careful. I want you to keep in mind that women like Fleace Weaver, and one other have advertised and publicly got the word out in the past about get-togethers for BW to get them to explore interracial dating that had a panel of different races of men speaking at these events, and on a couple of occasions these events were crashed badly by people who weren't supposed to be there, or the details of every BW attending were reported by some BM or other to some other unknown people like the event was '1984 - Big Brother is watching you' or something.

I hope you won't think that I'm discouraging you Mahogany but you should think about your own safety publicly out there first, and also how to protect yourself from any lapdogs out there who maybe reporting your business to the wrong kind of people.

Whatever you choose to do Mahogany hopefully no people acting in bad faith ever come your way.

Anonymous said...

This post and the one before has really got me thinking about how I receive and respond to the message and information I get on BWE blogs.

I remember an incident when my friend (she's Indian)and I were impressed by a busker's performance in Covent Garden,so sat for a while to listen to him. When we decided to move on, my friend just walked off without even a thought to paying for the entertainment she just enjoyed. I remember being offended on behalf of the busker and went on to give him something from my purse. I didn't say anything to her though.

Now that this has come up, I realise that this is exactly what I have been doing to the BWE bloggers all these years since I found you ladies.

I will make it a point to always show my appreciation and to give something back as well as forward.

Duchy

Evia said...

@Mahogany re:

BWE bloggers had a huge part to play in my move. Especially you Evia.

Thank you so much Mahogany! I love how you're all fired up. That's so wonderful! Proceed, but please do so in a mindful, methodical, calm, shrewdly realistic manner--so that you don't get burned out. Remember that only a relatively small percent of bw actually GET IT--despite what they may say. When people GET IT that their house is burning down, they don't come up with any excuses, explanations, reasons or rationales about why they can't leave.

TO ALL READERS: I have to say that I think that the so-called "BWE message" is about to spin out or has already spun out of control. From my understanding, this is because it is still being shaped. It is a living, morphing ideology. There is no central body controlling it; everyone therefore puts their own stamp on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if there will be or are bw out there already using their version of BWE to panhandle (like 'moonies'), claiming that they're doing it for the BWE "movement." LOL! There is no central, organized core that can refute that--like NOW (national organization of women) had when disruptive elements tried to tarnish/malign their organization. So before anyone may want to exploit or tarnish the core concepts of BWE that I "thought" we're were all talking about, I am disconnecting my common sense message from the label--that is, IF anyone attempts to pin that label on my common sense message.

I'm ONLY speaking for me with this comment.

Years ago, I, Evia, began blogging about bw having plain ole COMMON SENSE. I didn't invent common sense, but EVERYTHING I've written falls under common sense (or the version of it with which I was shaped). It's the ideology that directs my life. When I've urged bw to totally avoid being mammy-mules or frontline fighters against white hegemony, and to instead be butterflies, that to me is simply common sense.

Evia said...

So due to being raised and grounded in common sense, I've beat the drum steadily about the common sense principles of reciprocity, bw making BEST choices for themselves (no matter who doesn't like it) and choosing Quality men from the global village, AND vetting ALL men, bw putting themselves 'first and foremost,' accountability, bw living well, the critical need for bw to be hypergamous when at all possible, bw watching mostly what people DO versus what they say, and etc., etc. All of that goes back to my grandmother and those old black folks (women and men) who would drop by for a visit with her on her front porch and discuss happenings in the community. THESE were the kind of things THEY talked about EVERY time, though they didn't use these exact terms.

For those who have read my blogs from years back, I've pointed out repeatedly that I didn't come up with any of this on my own. I got this all from those old, mostly illiterate black folks on the porch in Alabama. LOL!

So with that, I, Evia, want to ONLY be associated with Common Sense and its derivative for AA women (who want to marry at this critical point in time), which is BWIR & BWIC. Those old black folks advocated doing whatever was best to enhance surviving and thriving at any given time. They weren't frozen or slow; they advocated moving quickly to enhance their lives. As my grandmom would say, "It's the early bird that gets the worm." So, this is really just common sense wisdom that's been around for a long time. As the saying goes: "There is nothing new under the sun."

So, that's how I've lived my life--according to the teachings of those old folks. In my case, the "apple has never fallen far from the tree" (another of my grandmom's favorite sayings. I never thought I was doing anything out of the ordinary. I've discovered that for some people, what I write about is controversial, but for me, it's always been about Common Sense. I will continue to live my life in that manner.

So, from now on, please associate me only with that--because that's who I am.

Neecy said...

Mohagonay,

I am living in Los Angeles area and I would love to meet up with you to implement those very things you have suggested. I too have been thinking on the same page. So, please email me at neecy101@gmail.com and we can discuss further.

Neecy said...

---------------------------------
I'm excited b/c for the first time (THANKS TO all the BWE forums like this one, Khadijas, Faith, Christelyns, WAOD, and Evia) i have been encourged to finally do something.

I have been having these ideas since 1998. YES! And have done NADA. And for the first time in my life due to interacting on these forums, I have finally made plans and come up with ways to achieve these goals.

in two weeks I will be investing in a film camera and apple computer that would be fit for producing and directing film (something I have always wanted to do and something that I want to do towards BWE). I am so excited b/c for the first time I will actually be putting into play the things I have been wanting to do for BWE for the last deacade.

i have come to realize that I don't care how bad my films may look in the beginning I have to start somewhere. My whole intention is to have a film production company that produces films, TV shows etc regadring BW. A kind of Lifetime Network for BW if you will. I am taking computer courses this spring to learn more about the internet and how to implement online entertainment.

I enjoy reading BWE blogs but I have no desire to start one of my own. First, my writing is just not on that level and its just not what drives me. I prefer to contribute in a different way - like creating media channels through You tube - even the blog radio idea is a great one I'd love to do.

The point is we need BW with their hands in ALL areas - blogging, media, books etc.

Also, I appreciate the mention of you tube. To put it simply - justin beiber is where he is today b/c of YouTube. Its a very powerful internet tool and I feel so STUPID for not using it. I think this is a great place to start. One of the reasons I am buying a new camera is for that prupose as well. To create my own You Tube channel to dicuss the things that matter to me as a BW.

I met a very nice young Black girl this week who happened to have gone to film school and she gave me her card and information on what tools I need to produce quality film etc.


I have to say I am a change the world thinker/doer. I have always been that way. I know once I get started i will conquer and surpass my goals and be very successful.

Be on the lookout ladies!!!!!

Felicia said...

Personally, I feel that after all of these years BWE bloggers (and commenters) have been spent trying to explain basic common sense to those BW in the listening audience who have been lucky/blessed enough to have come across this life saving message of doing what's best for self period regardless of who likes it or not, if anyone out there who's been exposed to the BWE message (for years in some cases) STILL doesn't get it they won't because deep down she doesn't want to for various reasons.

The masses of BW are still either in denial, too lazy to make the necessary changes, or mistakingly believe they have all the time in the world to "weigh their options" when they don't.

Some people would say it's fear that's holding black women back but like Evia and other's have stated, if one is eminent danger, the natural thing to do would be to flee the person/people/environment causing this danger.

And if it were anyone BUT BM that were responsible for this pain/suffering and struggling state that many BW are obviously in, I believe BW would have fled decades ago.

So... it's back to the mammy/save the struggling/damaged "brainwashed" "brothas" mess again I suppose.SMH

Time is RUNNING OUT for BW. PERIOD. End of story. And NO ONE is "coming too the rescue". Most especially no one black and especially no one black and male.

BW can save themselves the SAME way MOST marriage minded non African-American BW do IF given the chance. Buy surrounding oneself with positive QUALITY MARRIAGE minded and family oriented men.

MOST of these men are simply not black. And if BW were honest with themselves they would admit it.

BW need to leave this "black community" NONSENSE alone.

Because you can't and never will have a functioning, thriving, and healthy community if HALF of the equation is missing in action.

So... I would sincerely hope those BW who are in the listening audience who DO honestly believe in the idea of full freedom and self agency minus the guilt and sense of responsibility towards a dead black construct, to start ACTING on that belief.

Start limiting ones online time and get out there and start putting into PRACTICE what they've learned.

If one is a single, attractive, articulate, intelligent, and personable BW interested in eventually marrying well and ESPECIALLY if one is of child bearing age and interested in baring children in wedlock one must GET BUSY ASAP ON THE DOUBLE.

Jump out there in the GLOBAL VILLAGE away from the all black toxic cesspools that have contributed to the 70% single rate and over 70% OOW child rate in the dead black construct.

shan said...

Mahogany,

I am an actress/writer living here in LA also. I have written a few screen plays and just got through wrapping the second short that I produced with me in the lead. I agree that we should take back control of our image. I don't write stereotypical garbage so when my features hit the big screen I am sure many dbrm and dbrm mammy identified bw will not be able to relate. Best wishes in your endeavors.

Khadija,

You are right black people will use you up and forget about you later. I've had experiences with that years ago when I was living on the east coast and was still naive. I find it amazing how black people, particularly black men still use "white men as an excuse as to what they cannot accomplish." I'm sorry, but if I as a bw went around complaining about what ww won't let me do, then that would make me look inferior. Maybe many bm don't realize this but don't care, but anytime a man complains about what another man won't let him accomplish, it makes the man who is complaining look inferior and weak and the man who he is complaining about look superior and strong. That's how I see it.

Sometimes if I am in the company of bm, and they start complaining about the "oppressing wm" I simply stay silent or change the subject or just leave because I know they are expecting me to jump on the "blame whitey bandwagon" with them. No, I don't have that mindset, and men are suppose to compete with men. Why do you need women yelling from the sidelines? I will not be their cheerleader.

Faith said...

@Anna As someone who has been reading these blogs for quite some time (2009 at my forum as I recall) your concern is duly noted, but I don't think we see eye to eye on this.

My suggestion: run a blog forum with at least two posts a week for the next six months discussing core BWE issues and then get back to us. Go through the process of deciding your title, forum content, whether to self-host or use a subdomain, set up a moderation guideline, handle the trolls, handle the requests, using social networking or not, handle the complaints, handle the suggestions WHILE trying to LIVE the BWE message fully in not giving too much and let us know if you still feel the same way.

You hear me....I hear you....and I'm saying at the core of this is an attitude of entitlement. It's a core trait that blacks have towards other blacks and it's rotten to the core!

Had I not had my own forum and not witnessed this behavior for the past 2 years in particular I might be inclined to agree with you.

Had I not met BW in person last year who backbit, obfuscated, ran away and outright sabotaged IN PERSON I might be inclined to THINK such a "tone" change would result in what you're suggesting.

IF a BW cannot take the message as is then she was not likely to adapt any changes anyway.

This is what I'll dub: "the parable of the cookie". Said woman has no intention of changing but wants to see how many hoops you'll jump through for her amusement and distraction. She hates other BW and herself but will pose as a BWE supporter or enthusiast.

She wants a reward for listening, but of course will undermine the BWE message any chance she gets. She thinks she's better than some other "hoodrats" of course but they all share their investment in the dead black community.

She is the Ride&Die chick for life.

So....no I can't speak for anyone else who runs a blog forum but I am NOT interested in offering dessert before veggies.

Since most BW aren't making the changes OR supporting the BWE message anyway that's HER loss. Every person will not respond the life-affirming messages and it's not my responsibility to chase down every potential when there are 5 more in her place who will at least LISTEN.

Faith said...

@Zoopath....THANK YOU!!

Khadija said...

In the spirit of transparency, here's the email that I just sent Evia a few minutes ago:

"Dear Evia,

Thank you so much for your generous gift of $50. I'll be delighted to do some shopping with it!

Even though I deeply appreciate your gift, please, please, PLEASE don't repeat it. I meant what I said at Halima's blog about how it's much better for me to keep the premium blog posts totally separate from direct monetary exchanges.

It's safer for me in terms of the DBR nuts in the audience. In terms of friends and colleagues such as yourself, it's much simpler for me to keep money out of the equation. I view my BWE work as charity that helps support itself through book sales; and something that is totally separate from my business activities---never the twain shall meet is how I prefer things.

Have a great weekend!

Peace and blessings,

Khadija"