Monday, March 08, 2010

What, 'I have a preference for black men', really means

When black women say they have a preference for black men, I take it all with a whole big pinch of salt, because, you really cannot say you have a ‘preference’ unless you have dated different types (e.g. white men, asian men, arab men etc etc), over a period of time and have come to the conclusion that your favourite is one of these groups.


Black women make me laugh when they trot out the ol’ ‘I have a preference for black men’. How come then black men don’t share indeed show any evidence of this same strong, vocalized preference for black women and you can quite easily observe they don’t. Indeed if your ‘preference’ is something real and hardwired and innate, as some of you like to protest it is (this whole black just want to be with black etc etc) then everyone/every group would share similar patterns of ‘preferring’ those who prefer them, or else one group would risk becoming extinct, if it’s strong preference is not returned.

All in all, the term preference suggests a comparison has been made. If I prefer potatoes to any other ‘root’ food, then it suggests that I have had occasions to taste a variety of these other foods e.g. yams, swedes, sweet potatoes etc etc and over time realized that really my taste buds favour potatoes.

So all these women who haven’t even shared a cup of coffee with a white man, deciding they have a preference for only black men are just confused about what they are saying really. Remember folks, to have a preference for one thing, you must have had a chance to try/taste other things in its category more than once hopefully before you come out with that definite conclusion.

Something else is really afoot when black women answer with the usual knee-jerk ‘I have a preference for black men’. In my view there is a dynamic at play here that really isn’t about preference. They are not really answering the direct question, ‘who do you prefer’ (which if you note is never really asked they just offer the information about their preference unprompted). What they are actually doing is responding to the ‘subtext’ of the discussion or debate at hand, which they have processed and immediately heard that distinct call to stick up for their race. When black women answer in this manner, they have heard in the debate or conversation something that requires them to come out swinging for their race, they hear a call to show how ‘wonderful’ their race is and how black people are not 'all up into' white skin and all that other stuff that we as black women are always trying to guard against being or doing. This is about hyper vigilance for race.

I call this particular reaction, ‘responding to the subtext discussion’ which is about defending the race/race totems, sometimes resulting in black women making a whole issue out to be something it isn’t about. You see a clear example of how this ‘making an issue about what it is not’, happens on the programme Oprah Winfrey did about the high rates of singleness among black women. If you find a copy of that program on Youtube etc, you will see how that as soon as Oprah said the opening words about 70% singleness, one black woman in the audience immediately got her hand up and started going on about how black men are good and this and that. This was before Oprah even mentioned anything about black men!

The woman came out fighting because she heard the subtext negative suggestion about black men (real or imagined), and immediately a discussion about black women and dating suddenly required a ‘coming to the defence of black men’ .

Other ways black women make a discussion about something it is not

  • Finding personal love and happiness becomes an issue about saving black community
  • Protecting our young black girls from DBR predators side tracks into an issue of how not to send a brother to jail
  • Finding a good man to love becomes an issue of never giving up on ‘brotas’
Indeed the script of ‘good black women who says lovely things about her people,’ is kicking in. Remember that ‘community honor at stake’ overrides any other concerns and considerations for black women, who are to be found intently scrutinizing any conversation and situation to eliminate the remotest possibility that black ‘honor’ is tarnished.

When black women hear any discussion, they start scanning it for any underling implication that their black race is being demeaned, and quite often as is the case when one is hyper vigilant the alarm gets set off and they hear, ‘this is that situation you were warned to be prepared to say something in favour of your people.’ They come out swinging hard for the race.

Outsiders hear ‘protestations’ of undying love for black men and claims of strong preference and read it as proof of how black women have this amazing ‘attachment’ to black men rather than see this as black women responding to a call to ‘defend’ their race.

‘I have a preference for black men’ then can be translated ‘I have to show you/the world that we are sooooo enamoured with our race and we love it so much as to not be really interested in others’. It is showing the world that 'we are not self haters', 'we love our race' (symbolically through being totally enamoured with black man), 'we are not looking to run away from our blackness', 'are not looking to be white' etc etc.

Any wonder then that the more black men ‘display’ a non-preference for black women the louder the protestations of ‘black male preference’ grows. It all makes sense in the context of black women trying hard to counter the suggestions that their race is not good enough etc as being reinforced by black men’s actions.



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46 comments:

Lovebug said...

I'm glad that you addressed the issue of the subtext that black people, particularly black women, feel this responsibility to constantly defend the black race. I have noticed this often because whenever I point out some issue or problem in the so-called black community, I'm accused of being a self-hater and given a million excuses, usually racism is involved. (Unfortunately, I never graduated from the School of How to be a Proud and Authentic Black Woman). It sometimes seems that black pride means blindly supporting and never criticising anything or anyone black. (ex. OJ, R. Kelly, Chris Brown) However, black women seem to the most ardent defenders of all things black.

I personally never picked up this behavior or felt a need to because I don't see black people as any less than or weaker than any other group. Every group has its own unique strengths, rich heritage as well as the God-given potential for greatness. I therefore do not feel a moral duty to defend. I personally never see white women
exhibiting this desire to publicly defend white men and/or the white race. Yet, they seem to get along quite well. (Maybe all this defending is useless and a waste of energy? HMMM)

I have no problem with black pride, I just believe that talk is cheap. Instead of talk, let's lower the rate of violence against black women, lower the rate of black children born out of wedlock and growing up in single-parent homes, lower the rate of black on black crime, etc.

Thank you for your post, Halima.
Hopefully, I stayed mostly on topic.

Sky said...

This needed to be said. I know exactly the Oprah vid your talking about. All in all Oprah was talking about numbers, not about "good bm" of if they even exist, even I wondered where that came from. But now that you put it like this I totally get it.

I've seen this done on the Essence board as well, whenever the subject of IR dating comes up. Not one mention of whether there are good bm or not in the article, just simply the numbers aren't there. Instead of the discussion going in the direction of whether to IR date/not, it turns into why bm date out, what does it take to get or keep a bm, or my uncle,my daddy, my brothers are good bm. I'm thinkin if you plan on marryin your relatives good for you, but we don't want to. We simply want a quality man.

But I think this is starting to slow down, a lot w/ the talk of "I only want bm". Essence did a poll on its reader whether they would or wouldn't date outside their race, the last I checked the #'s for yes were 10x's higher than those who said no.

As one blogger put it the "The Nothing but a Brother brigade might be losing members."

http://rentec.wordpress.com/

Coffey's Daughter said...

The amount of apologists that black men have on their side in the "black community" is just amazing.

But even more amazing is the fact that most of them seem to be women, the very group that has suffered the most from the BM constantly failing.

These are the women who are sexually abused, physically abused, emotionally abused, stolen from, abandoned by the fathers of their children to raise those children alone, publicly denigrated in books, song and film, etc., etc.

And this is what you hear from the mothers, sisters and friends of these BM:

You gotta be patient with a black man, he's been beaten down by white society. That why he hits you. You have to be the strong one and just take it. You should treat him like yor "Black King". The bible says that a man is the master of his house. The odds are stacked against black men in the world.

Or, some version of above.

The black woman is supposed to do everything a woman is supposed to do, and, do everything a man is supposed to do, because the black man is such a mess?

And, then when we do all that, and the BM still just has a meltdown and disappears, well, then, we as BW are supposed to go pick out another wreck from the salvage yard of the black community, and try to rebuild that black man.

And we're just supposed to keep doing this, over and over, until we find a man that can stay together and get down the road safely. Because we (BW) owe this to the black community. This is our job, plain and simple. We're supposed to suffer; that's our lot in life.

Don't complain, just take it. Don't think about your happiness, because we're all in this together.

I got tired of taking on BM fix-it projects years ago, and just stopped. I feel so much better.

The black community "support" and "solidarity" that these apologists for the BM frequently refer to while lambasting you for not "givin' a brother a chance"?

It's myth, it's fantasy.

This place where black men are wonderful and the best men in the world, according to these ardent defenders of "black culture"?

That is some alternate reality that no one can quite locate.

Oshun said...

This is another great analysis.

You are right in that this seems to be an issue of saving face, displaying racial/ethnic pride, respect, preservation etc.

But as the other posters commented it is so twisted in that it is not reciprocated, i.e. BM protectionism, role reversal- women doing all the heavy lifting...

So I guess for these women the connection that that Black identity is tied to BM needs to be broken.

Melissa said...

Hey! I'm not trying to start any trouble. But when someone says they have a preference, why can't you just respect that? Some Black women are just only attracted to Black men and that is what they want. And you know what thats fine! I know you ladies are just trying to encourage and empower Black women and foster self-esteem. But some of the things you talk about: i.e. DBRBM or what ever is not every Black womans reality/experience. And this urging Black women to seek men of other races is not going work because there are Black women who are just not attractive to men of other races. If they want a Black man, so be it. Thats not your concern. And this is coming from someone is mostly attracted to Latin men. Please don't bash me. I come in peace. One question though: Most you ladies are not attracted to Black men and want men of other races, right? So what would you call that? Is that a preference?

ak said...

lovebug:

I'm glad that you addressed the issue of the subtext that black people, particularly black women, feel this responsibility to constantly defend the black race. I have noticed this often because whenever I point out some issue or problem in the so-called black community, I'm accused of being a self-hater and given a million excuses, usually racism is involved. (Unfortunately, I never graduated from the School of How to be a Proud and Authentic Black Woman).


You see lovebug your example is exactly what I'm talking about. These people, black men and black women to especially the latter, sit down privately or in a public forum and ask what sounds like really earnest questions like 'What can we DO for the black race?', 'What can we do for ourselves to improve things for the black community?', 'What should WE be doing more of?', 'How can we improve things for black men?', 'How can we black men/women improve our own situations?' etc., etc.

And then when you go and open your mouth and say something that you've seen from observing either your own ways, or other black peoples' ways, or both, the people are just ready to jump down your throat will all this ever-ready defensiveness and ready to blame whites for every single thing yet again or ready to make sure what black women do or don't do takes a great share of the blame. Then it becomes 'things are NOT that bad', 'Well things would be better if _____ let black men do____' or 'Things would be better if black women did/didn't do___'

If things are that great with black men or black women and the way things stand for them now, then why the great list of complaints, especially the same ol' complaints year after year now turning into decades nowadays literally? I mean still with the skin tone and hair grades?

So then these 'earnest speakers or spokespersons for blacks' aren't earnest at all not if you agree with and actually advise introspection for themselves like you would for yourself. Everybody else is to blame ALL the time as if everybody else is gonna take care of it for you. You must be mad.

If black love, pride and unity or black 'whatever' was as intact as it 'should be' then a lot of complaints would never even be here, sorry. But since people claim to want to talk about things 'earnestly' but they're ready to get defensive because nobody, certainly not black women but not even Bill Cosby or Obama can open their mouths to say ANYTHING about black people and their issues these days, then.....what? What can I do??

truth p said...

Thank you for another excellent post on the pathologies of some black women.They are truly a mess and they have indeed been brainwashed into thinking that it is their job to fight to hold up the image of the "community" b.k.a black men.

It's sad to see so many young women who could be focusing on school,working to get a better job so they can leave a bad community,or getting physically fit, spending their mental, emotional, physical, and even spiritual energies fighting battles that are not theirs.I just don't think it's a good idea for most black women and girls to be focusing on the uplift or protection of anything or anybody except themselves and their underaged children at this point.

BW have proven already to themselves that they canNOT do and be all things to all people.That's normal.Black women are literally committing image suicide and an actually physical suicide by trying to hold it all together without the support of the other portion of the "bc".I just hate to see so many black women forsake themselves and what's in their own best interest for the sake of others.

Even if a bw doesn't choose to date or marry outside her race she should'nt be extremely vocal about a dislike of white men.Some of these women actually go that far to prove loyalty to bm and the bc.Even black men have the sense to try and get along with white males for the sake of having a job or career.Alot of them even kiss up to wm.They would'nt sabotage themselves and their opportunity out of hatred for white men.In fact I don't even hear blak men publicly speaking out about some white men and their bad issues anymore.For the most part bm try to make nice with white men and then if they do talk about white men negatively they do it behind closed doors or on the internet where noone can see them.

I am pleading with black women to stop shooting themselves in the foot.Stop taking on too much.Stop trying to be all things to everybody.Learning to get along well with other good people and leaving ghetto's and some other majority black constructs will very likely help do two things for you.
1.it'll help you have a happier countenance.when you're not in a bad environment you don't feel you have to be on guard so noone will mess with you,invade your personal space, or ask you for money or other services. you feel it's okay to smile and be pleasant.
2.leaving a depressing environment and depressed people will give you a more positive outlook on life.People who are happier tend to be more inclined to practice better eating habits and excersize more.

Start living for you.That's what i'm doing and learning to do more and more each and everyday.I know that I can change my life for the better WITHOUT the participation of the many people that I thought was necessary for me to move forward and have a prosperous life.I know that I can do it WITHOUT them.Just like these people can go on and have a good life without me.You all can do this too.

truth p. said...

@Melissa how could you not comprehend what she said.She was QUESTIONING how do these women even know that they don't like men of other races or that they actually prefer black men if they've never been with anything but.Attraction is NOT based on physical looks.I think we have all met men that looked good that were just NOT attractive because of bad attitude, wrong priorities,lack of eduaction and welath.I also think attraction is a MUTUAL thing.I watched a show with a lady on it that loved a man that didn't love her.Do you wanna know what the show's resident psych told her?She told her to MOVE ON and that it is NOT healthy to continuously love and desire somebody that obviously doesn't love you or that canNOT be obtained by you.Black women who are already in STABLE relationships with LOVING black men are not the topic of conversations here.They have a few websites I believe for bm/bw.This is about the thousands and maybe even millions of aaw holding out for an aam that they won't be able to obtain due to sheer numbers.Yes anybody can like what they like but if you like anything,other than your God, so much that you'd stick by it even if it meant you'd be cast into oblivion somethings wrong with you.And for a person to be that adamant about their love for something that they'd rather be cast into oblivion before they tried something else there defitnetly HAD TO BE some kind of conditioning done.This is America. It's the land of options.Options and choices and our right to practice them are preached everyday.For somebody to be that stuck up on bm, in America of AAALLLLL places, somebody had to be brainwashed and manipulated.

Oshun said...

@ Melissa,

Because all things are not equal when it comes to BW and their preferences. I understand that not all BW are having the same experience, but there is an 80% OOW rate, large numbers of unmarried and unprotected BW (and their children), and high rates of BW/BG victimization at the hands of BM.
Large numbers of BW and children are not living well - even within many Black marriages.

Marrying high caliber men of any race is a way for these BW to live well.

When those BW close the door to any possibility of living well by insisting they have a preference, especially one that is clearly not reciprocated by the men they desire,that should be examined.

I think a woman can potentially become attracted to any man. Including BW.

I am not sure of the science or psychology behind it, but in my unscientific observation; if a man is around a heterosexual woman long enough - stuff happens.

I have heard enough women say they initially weren't attracted to so and so, but over time they eventually became attracted to him. I have even heard married women (of all races) say this about their husbands. I have experienced this in my own life when dating.

On some level predatory and no value men are aware of this. This is why elders, mothers, aunts, and grandmothers used to pass out warnings about avoiding certain types of men and rejecting them outright. This is whats behind having game, having rap, and the culture of the pickup artist. This is what BWE/IR bloggers warn against, encouraging women to keep their thinking caps on at all times, but still get letters from BW who say that they are madly in love with a guy who didn't graduate hs, doesn't have a GED, hasn't had a job since 1960, but he massages her feet so well that now she is confused as to whether or not she should marry him.

They all know if a man is presented with the opportunity to get you to bond to him emotionally - regardless of whether he is a good guy or not- its over. He is in there and it takes a considerable amount of willpower and discipline to sever the emotional attachment.

Now those were negative examples, but this can also work in a positive context on behalf of BW.

Many of the BW who state they have preferences for BM are not allowing themselves the opportunity to be exposed to, courted by, and bond with men from other groups. As Halima stated, preference means you have sampled a variety and decided you like this one the best of all. That is not what is happening when BW make this kind of statement.

I don't think there is any disrespect intended when Halima questions these kinds of statements from BW. If anything I think it is a loving and caring thing to do considering the quality of life most BW have. If the arguments of these BW are sound then they will be able to stand up to scrutiny and examination.

As far as my personal preference I can't say I have one. Initially I preferred Mexicans and Indians. Then I preferred dark White ethnics and Jews until I met a local blonde.

I have learned through dating and a whole lot of awful embarrassing mistakes that I am a typical textbook woman. I can use my brain, but I am hard wired to seek relationships and relate to those in my intimate circle on a primarily emotional level.

So my preference is for those who prefer me and consistently show me that by treating me well.

Oshun said...

@ Truth P

"I watched a show with a lady on it that loved a man that didn't love her.Do you wanna know what the show's resident psych told her?She told her to MOVE ON and that it is NOT healthy to continuously love and desire somebody that obviously doesn't love you or that canNOT be obtained by you."


Cosign. I think women who do this are abusing themselves emotionally.

Melissa said...

Hello Truth P. I uderstood what she was saying. How can I make the final decision on something when I haven't considered/ tried my other options? I got that part. I also know that physical attraction is not the deciding factor in picking a mate. The numbers don't work in Black womens favor. But when a BW tells me her preference is for BM only and she is happy with her decision I believe her and I don't argue with her. I respect her choice because its hers. And I know I wouldn't want someone urging, convincing, beating in head that Latin men are not for me, not good for me, or that I should broaden my options. Because it aint gonna happen and people should just respect that. I know that a relationship is more than just attraction. There are attractive men in all races. But I don't want them!

Halima said...

Melissa

Can you explain to me/us how this little blog article somewhere on the corner of the World Wide Web constitutes beating black women on the head.

Do you not see yours as a ridiculous assertion.

I simply wrote an article saying that I am not too convinced about this whole 'preference' thing black women go on about, simply because to really have a preference you must have tried all the options going.

The botom line of the post is that i thnk something else is going on with this announcing of having a preference. Simple!

At no point did I say bw should not have their preferences in who ever if they so wished. Indeed I am really wondering if we are reading the same article, here.

Would you be able to highlight for me where I insist that bw cannot have their preferennces?

Anonymous said...

Melissa said...
Hello Truth P. I uderstood what she was saying. How can I make the final decision on something when I haven't considered/ tried my other options? I got that part. I also know that physical attraction is not the deciding factor in picking a mate. The numbers don't work in Black womens favor. But when a BW tells me her preference is for BM only and she is happy with her decision I believe her and I don't argue with her. I respect her choice because its hers. And I know I wouldn't want someone urging, convincing, beating in head that Latin men are not for me, not good for me, or that I should broaden my options. Because it aint gonna happen and people should just respect that. I know that a relationship is more than just attraction. There are attractive men in all races. But I don't want them!

---

Yep! I get what you're saying -- you're mind has snapped closed like a bear trap and it's going to stay that way! Good luck with that!

Anonymous said...

And this urging Black women to seek men of other races is not going work because there are Black women who are just not attractive to men of other races. If they want a Black man, so be it.
----
If it's not going to work then it's not going to work. People are either going to take Halima's advice into consideration or not. Why are YOU having a coniption over it -- essentially urging Halima to shut up so that others who may simply need to have their eyes opened to options that are ALREADY there will stay blind. The ones who are close-minded, like you, are going to stay that way regardless, correct?! They are unreachable anyway and this blog is not for them (and apparently not for you either).

Instead of trying to censor Halima message, why not start your own where you can freely manipulate BW into staying closed off to something/someone different more out of fear than preference.

Melissa said...

Anonymous I'm not trying to shut Halima up. I'm just saying it is a waste of time to try to convince people to consider their preferences. Thats all I'm saying. Actually I thought I was on you guys' side. Maybe I am close-minded because I'm only attracted to a certain guy but that just who I am. And Halima you are not convinced about the whole "I have a preference" thing. All I was saying regardless of the reason a person has a so called "preference" If its what they want, why do you care? :shrugs: Anyway thank you for letting me speak my opinion ladies.

Halima said...


Melissa

All I was saying regardless of the reason a person has a so called "preference" If its what they want, why do you care?


Melissa why would I not care that bw are doing things that harm their interests. The basic aim of this blog is to get the scales to fall from bw's eyes particularly where they are doing things that are harming them!

The problem with the 'dont talk to them, let them be' approach is that it pressumes that people have fixed and set in stone 'positions'.

some people 'go along' with popular/trendy ideas unless you give them a reason to take a second look at what they really believe.

Many women are parroting the 'i have a preference' line because it seems like a thing bw should be saying etc etc etc, confronting an article like this might get them to work out really if they do have a prefernce or not!

Anonymous said...

"Instead of trying to censor Halima message, why not start your own where you can freely manipulate BW into staying closed off to something/someone different more out of fear than preference."


Because Melissa is too lazy to do that. That's why. It's easier to intrude into a conversation about BW being honest with themselves about their true motivations in this 'I have a preference for BM' shtick.

MOST BW (and specifically African-American women) have been successfully programed from BIRTH to parrot whatever nonsensical statement is necessary - like a ventriloquist dummy - to boost BM's self-esteem.

Heterosexual men and women are attracted to each other. Period. It is hard wired in the species DNA.

It's CULTURE that shapes attitudes and behavior.

These BW who are shooting themselves in the foot (and trying to drag down ALL BW's image with them) are simply victims of various so called "black communities" (constructs) that deify BM, and non BW, and demonize WM and BW.

They've been played totally and don't realize it.

These BW are parroting these statements because they've been carefully taught (miseducated) "good black women" (race first BW) are "supposed to" prop up BM and "stick it to whitey". (As if WM who are on the top of the food chain care lol) "Good BW" are "supposed to" deny any attraction they feel towards WM and other non black men, because the feeling itself would be a "betrayal" to the po, misunderstood, confused, etc... bm.

The same BM who doesn't give a damn about her, the children he has by her, or the black race.

These BW making these pronouncements (often out of the clear blue sky) place themselves in the odd, and masochistic category.

Because everyone, including Melissa knows darn well that most African-American BM (and other BM) don't, and NEVER had a preference for BW - at least those who look black - because of irreversible and intractable damage. And never will.

Therefor when these BW claim to have a "preference for BM", if anything, they are actually stating that they have a preference for being used, abused, and turned into a laughing stock.

The joke is truly on them and them alone. Thanks Halima for placing a mirror up to BW. They're not fooling anyone with these pronouncements.

When folks have "preferences" for those who do not have preferences for them in return, and instead hold them in contempt any many instances, that's a sickness. Not a preference.

Anyone who's honest can see that you hit the nail on the head with your analysis Halima.

Good job.

Lovebug said...

@ak:

"If black love, pride and unity or black 'whatever' was as intact as it 'should be' then a lot of complaints would never even be here, sorry."

I'm glad you wrote this because it is something that needs to be said.
Actions speak louder than words. Outsiders will have difficulty believing black people truly have pride in themselves when they see how we treat each other.

Placing white women on a pedestal is one of the ways the white race shows their racial pride. This is why they will rush to the defense of a Taylor Swift if anyone upsets her. They see their women as a reflection of themselves.

In other words, we can't honestly say we feel good about ourselves as a group/race when we neglect, mistreat, and/or disrespect people who look just like us, particularly the most vulnerable among us, our women and children.

Oshun said...

"All I was saying regardless of the reason a person has a so called "preference" If its what they want, why do you care? :shrugs:"

Why wouldn't BW be concerned about millions of BW who are needlessly suffering and needlessly compromised lives?

Traci said...

@Melissa

The whole idea behind these IR blogs is to get BW to get the courage (if that's how they feel) to say (and think, and maybe hopefully act upon), "Hey it's okay that I feel attraction to another type of man than I usually would - and that's okay. That's my right as a quality woman to be attracted to a quality man REGARDLESS of his color."

We aren't challenging ourselves to think outside the box! THAT'S the problem and that's why so many IR bloggers are blogging about the situation! That's the whole point! To show BW that there is a DIFFERENT WAY of thinking if they so choose. And there is SUPPORT if they choose to think that way.

Some women NEED to be able to come to a forum and read the posts, comments, which may shine a spotlight or give them an "AH HA" moment on how they are thinking or as I believe have been CONDITIONED to think.

...and then be able to have the courage to move forth with their lives and to live well. In the end, that's what we want. That's what this is all about!

Sonja said...

Most you ladies are not attracted to Black men and want men of other races, right? So what would you call that? Is that a preference?

Melissa
You don't even know these women to make a statement like that. You're really reaching.

Anonymous said...

Most you ladies are not attracted to Black men and want men of other races, right? So what would you call that? Is that a preference?


I can't speak for the other ladies here, but for myself, I'm attracted to men regardless of race who posses positive qualities. It's what's on the inside that counts for me.

I'm attracted to quality men period. That's my preference.

ak said...

Exactly lovebug.

rainebeaux said...

Ah, Halima, quite an interesting read. I knew there was a hole in this argument, but couldn't quite put it in words. I have nothing else to add except:

Melissa, you've completely missed the point.

cool_splash1 said...

I'm starting to think Melissa might be a troll.

"Most you ladies are not attracted to Black men and want men of other races, right? So what would you call that? Is that a preference?"

What kind of question is that? I think someone might be trying to start something. I mean why come and bitch and yes I'm going to say bitch about a post or someones observation? And frankly telling someone what they should and should not say, or feel or not feel on their own blog is just disrespectful. Who are you to tell someone how they should observe or write about what they observe?

Mary said...

of course Melissa is a troll!! now instead of focusing on discussing the issue at hand, everyone is replying to "melissa" which is probably exactly what "she" wanted. get a grip yall, is it that hard to recognize and ignore a troll.

shimmy said...

I think the reason why some black women say they have a preference for black men is because they think that black men might be the only men that find them attractive. Some might feel they are undesirable to non black men, so they think they only have a choice to stick to black men.

I think it's sad because many times black men don't reciprocate that preference for them. It's ironic because some black men are the first and will shout the loudest that they prefer non black women. They are not ashamed of their interracial preference. They will in many cases, degrade black women in favor of that preference.


If you are a black woman that finds non black men more attractive, many black men and some black women will gve you a look to make you feel ashamed or guilty of that preference. I think that if you prefer non black men, then you shouldn't feel bad about it. It doesn't mean that you are self hating. Many black women that prefer only black men are still single. They also have to deal with the fact that many black men are rejecting them for non black women.

Sandra77 said...

Halima, thank you for pointing out how the so-called BM preference is more often than not just a Pavlovian response to certain undercurrent stimuli. Pavlovian responses may be fine for dogs, but have not proved to work so well for human beings. That is why we have been given a brain - to analyze situations and thereby improve our lives and ourselves. That is why it is important to question these "cultural" declarations that are not (and may never even have been) in BW's best interests.

tlynn said...

All I have to say is that MY preference is for a QUALITY MAN, regardless of his color! That's it and I think that's what BW should focus on.

Bellydancer said...

These quotes were taken from an article called Love and Race which was published in a college newspaper see link.
http://media.www.thescsucollegian.com/media/storage/paper1317/news/2010/03/01/News/Love-And.Race-3881791.shtml

"I believe all races are beautiful," said Freshman Mechanical major, David Heirs. "Although white girls are so much easier to talk to at STATE! Most African American females are hard to talk to, they seem more stuck up. It's hard to have an intellectual conversation with most and dealing with them in a relationship is a HUGE challenge. White females are more laid back and easier to date. They seem more appreciative when it comes to a relationship."

I wouldn't date a white guy because I feel like a black guy would know me better," said Sophomore Alicia Heyward. "A black man would know my needs and wants in contrast to a white man."

You can see from these quotes the bw has been conditioned to utter this type of response even though her counter part the bm has no intention of knowing her like she claims he does. This what her preference has gotten her a limited dating pool on which she has been labled difficult, dumb and deranged by her supposed intended who does not care about what she wants or needs.

GoldenAh said...

Wow. That article was stunning.

Do these BG/BW ever listen to and watch these BB/BM? They are talking about a fantasy.

BG/BW talk as if "brothas" understand them best. BB/BM regard BG/BW as "difficult", and I bet that is the tip of the insult iceberg.

Obviously shared pain has no gain. BB/BM are out for themselves. BG/BW need to take a page out of the bb/bm workbook.

What are these mothers teaching their girls? Leave the black militancy for the boys. They're the only beneficiaries of it.

Where do some BG/BW get their masochism from? Even a cat or dog or will run away if it isn't treated right.

Whenever I hear "I have a preference for black men" that's like saying, "I brush my teeth once a year." Really?

Try flossing daily (swirling), it may prove a better option.

BWF said...

Where do some BG/BW get their masochism from? Even a cat or dog will run away if it isn't treated right.

====

LOL!! Im going to put this quote on my blog.

Im glad black males are showing their true colors. Hopefully one more bw will wake up and realize that she's been lied to and begin to look out for herself-- instead of those "brothas" and that "black community".

Steph said...

@Melissa,
Yes, it's all fine and dandy to have a preference for Hispanic men but do you have a specific type of Hispanic man that catches your eye? Will you date a Cuban man but reject a Puerto Rican?

What I find disturbing with the "I have a preference for black men" camp is that they mostly focus on dark-skinned black men. Listen to any black woman who prefers black men and you will hear is her waxing poetic on about the sexiness of "dark chocolate" skin. I remember one time in a hair board that I frequent the women randomly started cooing over dark men and how sexy they are. None of the women speaking appreciated a light-skinned black man. If the women who say they prefer black men truly do so without political reasons, why are they so narrow-minded in their views of black male sex appeal?

But, aha. Reading through this article makes it very clear. Black women have the notion imprinted in their mind that they must "be down" for the race and part of that means proclaiming from the mountaintops that black males with darker skin are more appealing than their lighter counterparts. Without the politics, it would be easier for black women to publically appreciate light-skinned black males.

Anonymous said...

Many BW unfortunately feel they need to kiss dark-skinned black male behinds specifically because these are the only males they feel they have a conceivable chance with. They feel that light-skinned BM, biracial men, and other light and white skinned non black men aren't interested in them in the least. So, to eliminate the rejection they feel is inevitable anyway, they cling to lowering themselves in everyone's eyes by kissing dark-skinned BM's behinds. And telling him (dark-skinned BM) the complete opposite of what he actually is in the real world.

Anywhere you go on this planet - proportionately speaking - white and light-skinned men are in higher positions then black and dark-skinned me.

White and other light-skinned men have the power on this earth. BM - and especially dark-skinned BM don't.

Although it's rarely outright stated, this is an obvious and easily observable state of affairs.

Therefore, in order to try to build up the self-esteem of BM (being in the dependent and feminine role that BM are in as a group does effect their self-esteem negatively) silly and misguided BW who are actually shooting themselves in the foot try to ease the po BM's pain by trying to build him up by associating darkness with "strength".LOL When ACTUAL strong men (like WM and others) BUILD working and sustainable healthy cultures. They build up and marry their women instead of tearing them down. And they raise their children instead of abandoning them.

Dark-skinned BM as a group (exceptions are not the majority) the world over have proven themselves to be the LEAST masculine of all men on this planet.

Especially compared to WM.

NO ONE should be fooled by these silly AND ridiculous pronouncements that confused and bamboozled BW make.

They know themselves they're lying. They're simply playing out the part they feel they have to like trained seals following their masters.

Plus, these BW hope that by kissing a** these dark-skinned BM will uplift them and appreciate their beauty like ALL other non BM naturally appreciate the appearance of their women.

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN and these foolish BW really need to stop denigrating themselves.

It's a bad look.

Oshun said...

@ Steph

"What I find disturbing with the "I have a preference for black men" camp is that they mostly focus on dark-skinned black men. Listen to any black woman who prefers black men and you will hear is her waxing poetic on about the sexiness of "dark chocolate" skin."

Perhaps in their minds this = symbol of racial pride i.e. choosing the most West African looking male...

@ Bellydancer

Those quotes are amazing. It is as if the BG quoted is living in an alternate universe. Totally disconnected from reality.

Halima said...

Steph said

"What I find disturbing with the "I have a preference for black men" camp is that they mostly focus on dark-skinned black men. Listen to any black woman who prefers black men and you will hear is her waxing poetic on about the sexiness of "dark chocolate" skin."


More proof then that this is all political and about bigging up their community not about a pure and unadultrated preference for black men.


Annonymous

Plus, these BW hope that by kissing a** these dark-skinned BM will uplift them and appreciate their beauty like ALL other non BM naturally appreciate the appearance of their women.


I too detect this 'if we lift them up they cant but respond in kind' sentiment going on with hyping black males, this women are desperate to kick start reciprocity in this regard!

Joyce said...

I think that we are misinterpreting the word "preference" in this context. If I prefer lean built men to obese men, you could easily ask me how I know that I prefer lean built men unless I have dated obese men. But this is remedied by my correctly stating that I am far more "attracted" to lean built men. It's the attraction that forms the preference and attraction is formed through observation.

So I believe that when black women say that they prefer black men, they are actually saying that they generally find black men more attractive.

Take another example. If a woman was to decide which man she would prefer being sexually active with, that woman (if she is normal) would most likely not decide this by having sex with a bunch of men and then choosing. She would decide this based on who she finds most attractive, beginning with observation and then leading to non-sexual interaction.

cool_splash1 said...

@Steph

I sometimes wonder if the black is beautiful/black power movement had some part in this but over time. My father was light skinned my mother has a preference for light skinned men while when I had a preference for Darker (black, Indian, whatever) my preferences have changed over the years. She told me that many people are attracted to what is opposite of their own look. Hell my own father was light skinned.

I thought about something as I read your post. It seems like before the black is beautiful/black power movement (which when I think about it seemed more about dark skinned black men)might have also had some part in this. In the 80's many black women were dating and marrying light skinned black men. Dark skinned black men (many who are older often joke/complained about this. Even before the BIB movement this was going on.

One black man that I used to talk to stated that the worst thing black women did was stop dating light skinned and only dated dark skinned etc. He is dark skinned himself, but he said even then that it would hurt us in the long run and not to date/marry these men as to so called keep the race going. (this was in the early 2000s)

Anyways then the 90's came and the whole 60's/70's movement seemed to come back right along with it. Then we got crap like gansta rap etc.

After reading the posts by Evia about black women marrying out in the 50's I wonder if that is one of the many reasons for many of our black movements especially the bib and black power movements.

Halima said...

Joyce

There is a slight difference in meaning between I have a preference and I prefer to be with. Most bw say they have a preference when what they mean is I prefer to be with bm (which is there right btw).

When you have a ‘preference’ it denotes having a natural strong attraction to that particular thing as opposed to others in its category. A preference means 'naturally drawn to' as opposed to deciding to be drawn to because of history of racism, what daddy says, uplift of race etc etc which is what black women are essentially doing.

When bw consciously make a choice to be with bm, it is because of political reasons or coaching or abiding by what they deem available and ‘allowed’ to black women who want to do the bidding of their race, or wanting to put in a good word for their race, it’s a different thing to claiming that they suddenly become ‘asexual’ at the sight of white men. It’s a decided ‘control’ and 'setting limits' thing rather than a ‘biology’. They have choosen or decided that they will only 'delight themselves' in bm.

Like I said to Melissa, you can decide to prefer to just be with bm, but please don’t tell us that its somehow naturally occuring to the majority of black women (there are always the exceptions), especially when you haven’t tried any other option on offer.

And while you are at it, please note that black men do not share this same ‘preference’ for only black women, therefore it is not a ‘hard wired’ trait as bw want to claim.

To be lean/normal weight is natural as opposed to being obese so I don’t think that is a good analogy.

Anonymous said...

"And while you are at it, please note that black men do not share this same ‘preference’ for only black women, therefore it is not a ‘hard wired’ trait as bw want to claim."

Thank you for breaking it down to "Joyce" Halima. These BW are simply parroting what some BM told them to say.

Why they would even listen to what BM (the majority of whom absolutely do not prefer phenotypically BW and especially dark-skinned phenotypically BW) say about anything is a mystery.

ak said...

GoldenAh:

Where do some BG/BW get their masochism from? Even a cat or dog or will run away if it isn't treated right.

GoldenAh as my people would say 'Mi nah know!'

Anonymous said...

Our men should be 'protecting' us and not the other way around; i've said it once and i'll say it again: only MEN can make boys mature,and not women

Anonymous said...

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but every single one of my, "I only loves the black MENZ!", friends have been among the most jealous of white male attention that I receive. And they have tended to get the craziest (note: remember down to the color of shirt) if those men were blond and conventionally attractive. I certainly see a pattern (and so have my mutual friends of other races who date interracially and know some of these same women). Only a black man seems to fall by the wayside when a friend is dating Bailey.

I think that this, "Only black MENZ fa meeeee" stance is bourne out of believing that men of other races would not find them attractive, so claiming black men as a preference is a defensive response. For many black women, I think that seeing someone that they KNOW get attention from white/latino/asian (but keeping it real, white men in the situations I've seen) has been a game changer for them. Suddenly, it is realized that they too can be an object of affection, and that's when the jealousy came out. I looked like them, I wasn't restricting myself, I wasn't pretending to not be black, and I was still seen as datable.

For so many black women, who have been told that no one else would ever want you, I've seen a few realize just how much they had been lied too.

Kitten_Moon said...

I have to say that I've never met a black woman who would only date a black man. My best friend who is Caribbean always tells me that she wants an Ethiopian husbands, but has dated only Hispanics so far.

Most black women I know fantasize from time to time of non black men. Or how they are willing to date IR if the right guy came around. It's usually on the internet that read that some black women wont even suggest the idea of dating out.

It's OK if they like black men, but how are they so sure that they wont like other race of men if they don't try? How many black men do we know who ONLY PREFER black women? Those "only black queen" men are long gone and will NEVER come back. Modern black men like to read the WHOLE menu.

Black women, especially educated black women, need to open up unless they want to be single and childless for the rest of their lives.

I've dated around, and currently involved in a 3 year relationship with a Jewish man. I've never been happier.

Beloved said...

Anonymous: "I think that this, "Only black MENZ fa meeeee" stance is bourne out of believing that men of other races would not find them attractive, so claiming black men as a preference is a defensive response."

Me: I agree with you 100%. I'm also of the belief that many black women who do that do so because deep down they know how many black men really feel and think about them, and they don't want to deal with the fact that all of the unreciprocated (if that's a word)love, support, respect, giving away of resources has all been for naught. It's too painful for many black women to think about.

Black women don't want to accept the fact that we're literaly own our own, and that black men had decided DECADES ago that we weren't their only option. I'm a single mom of a soon to be 12-year old son and at this point, I'm wide open to an honest, spiritual, emotionally and financially stable man.

ak said...

Beloved:

I'm also of the belief that many black women who do that do so because deep down they know how many black men really feel and think about them, and they don't want to deal with the fact that all of the unreciprocated (if that's a word)love, support, respect, giving away of resources has all been for naught. It's too painful for many black women to think about.


Yeah well I'm tired of the 'fantasy land' of black women though. Someone needs to step on those rose-tinted glasses! LOL They need to wake up today! And the most annoying thing is when black women get indignant and crazy when you disagree with this view because you have your own opinion and your carving your own path away from the current black constructs, just as the Anonymous person said.

If these BW don't smell the coffee today then the vicious cycle will always have them. *shrugs shoulders*