Tuesday, April 26, 2011

When parents set their offspring up for great things

Apparently Kate (in line to be the next Queen of England) has Pig Farmers as forebears 

Like Evia always says, the female card is the strongest card in the deck. The fact that this is a mans world means that 'any' woman has the potential to get into a lineage or inheritance, that would be deemed 'out of her league', simply because she is a woman and no one can stop it or do anything about it even if they wanted to!

Folks are setting their children up for great things.

I have among my cuttings an example of a couple who got their unborn daughter a place in a prestigeous school in London. Yes a place was secured before the girl was even born! Thats how serious some people are about their childrens future and indeed their futures.  When you ask many bw to 'plan their families' with a little care, they become outraged and insist that it is their right to have offsrping in the most 'insecure' circumstances as they choose. Yep they insist that they have a right to prefer to have families were government intervention is critically needed. Families where they will just 'get by' on a wing and a prayer, where they dont even plan beyond the birth, and from then on simply live for the day!

Yet we live in a time and age where some parents plot the trajectory of their offspring with such precision that they enter such rarefied worlds, and circles from where 'things' are controlled.

Everything about Kate Middleton points to the fact that her parents were preparing her, not for a 'mean marriage', but for a marriage into riches, prestige and status. Everything from her upbringing, choice of schools, decorum etc etc shows that some people are awake not asleep when it comes to positioning their children to move into that 'higher level' of living!

Congrats to Kate and William

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Anonymous said...

You are correct. Let us make more positive decissions when it comes to our families.


Chrisandra said...

This is exactly what I thought after listening to her story. Though her family was not the poorest of the poor, what monies they made went to their daughter attending the best schools they could afford. It paid off and I believe had she she not caught the eye of the Prince, she most definitely would have walked away with solid connections (the college she attended was tight knit) and perhaps more than a few marriageable partners (that was a part of the school's character as I recall they said the school was traditional in that most men and women who attend often end up marrying who they attended the school with). I will say that I am interested to know how a young black woman would fair at that university if given the proper guidance? Something to really think about.

Halima said...

Chrisandra you are dead on right. I have only just listened to a program where the 'head' of the school himself was being interviewed and he admitted that he tells the students 'you may well meet your spouse here'.

so this is coming from the horses mouth not second hand!

Jamila said...

Kate Middleton is definitely a beautiful woman and you can tell her parents groomed her well.

She took a gap year off after graduating from high school before attending college--I think she and some friends went to Italy. I think Prince William took a gap year too. Clearly she and her parents understood the value of traveling and seeing a bit of the world in order to gain perspective and maturity before college.

I hope black women who are raising girls will be able to look at Kate and get some lessons on how to groom their future women for life.

IslandGirl said...

I really believe that many black women are so messed up that they don't want their daughters to have a better life than they. Since they suffered, then their children should suffer too. My mother was such a woman. She tried to discourage me from finishing high school and encouraged me to become sexually active at a very young age. I did not engage in sexual activity because I had plans for my life, even though she did not.

When I went away to college, she disowned me for several years. She claimed that I looked down on her because I wanted an education and I did not want to be a serial baby momma by different men as she was. Now that she is older and not doing well financially, she regrets not helping me to realize my full potential when I was younger and my female card was worth a lot more than it is now.

She says that she wishes she had done everything to help me get into the right social circles and find a rich white man because I was so pretty. I actually feel sorry for her now because she realizes that she did not do right by me and, as a result, she is not at peace with herself.

KimP said...

This was the major take away for me as well when hearing more about Kate's background. It's not where you're born, it's where you're going that matters. Her parents really did their due diligence by using whatever means they had to ensure their children had the best life possible.

It may seem a bit selfish, but I also consider that when I get old, more than likely it will be my children who are taking care of me.

If I don't do my due diligence by raising them up well and ensuring they have the best life possible, how can they take care of me in my old age if they don't have a pot to "tinkle" in themselves?

Shermy said...

Brilliant! I always had the feeling that if I'd had parents who set me up I'd be in a COMPLETELY different place. Affluent families make sure they do, I plan on following that lead, even though I'm single!

Betty Boo said...

You become whom you surround yourself with and I am not mad at Kate's parents for wanting to see their daughter up to succeed and marry well. That is why I have a big issue with how the black woman who lied to get her child in a better school is being treated, they want to give her 20 years, that is a little excessive, she did not rob a bank. Some will argue "well she should not have lied" I agree, but maybe she felt she had no other resource but was desparate to get her child a better chance. i wonder if she had been a white mother would she been thrown in jail. No defending it just saying. The probelm in the black community is that many parents who want to put their children in better schools are accused of "selling out" and so to "keep it real" they keep their children in dire conditions or they simply don't care, I just don't know why many (NOT ALL) of them are so indifferent to their children doing well. I hate to say it but it is true for alot of black parents. I have a colleague who is over a program to help black students to go to college and she said the hardest people to get on board are the PARENTS! So I find it very annoying when they do try to help their kids, they catch hell sometimes from the DBR black community.

RenKiss said...

Yes, I don't understand why so many bw these days don't think about their decisions to have children. It's treated like going to the bathroom.

I especially agree with you about how a lot of bw have children under the worst circumstances. I'm not even thinking about getting pregnant until I know for SURE that my both my husband and I can provide for them financially and be emotionally stable.

When I was in high school I used to see black girls getting pregnant, and they have no type of job and end up having to drop out, or go to an alternative school. What makes that so bad is with a child, you're forced to put off pursuing an education. On top of that, when they were able to get some type of work. It's usually minimum wage work. I know that I wasn't going to allow myself to end up like that. That's the main reason why I went to college and I'm getting ready to go enter graduate school.

*apologies if I come off as elitist.*

If I ever have children, especially for my daughters. I'm going to try my best to make sure they have every advantage that I didn't have. Being a woman and a minority, things are already stacked against them.

I'm also glad you brought up the black woman who lied to get her child into a better school Betty Boo. That's why I made the point of the system is set up in a way where some people are at a disadvantage.

I'm also not defending what the woman did either, but to me it shows how far she was willing to go to make sure her child would have a decent education.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

This is an important point, and it represents a multi-generational strategy that began with her maternal grandmother, ie.:

"Middleton's paternal family came from Leeds, West Yorkshire, and her great-grandmother Olivia was a member of the Lupton family, who were active for generations in Leeds in commercial and municipal work. Her ancestors include The Rev. Thomas Davis, a Church of England hymn-writer. Carole Middleton's maternal family, the Harrisons, were working class labourers and miners from Sunderland and County Durham."

From my understanding of it, the strategy began with her maternal grandmother, who began married life in public housing, but who was determined to move up. She obviously passed that on to her Ms. Middleton's mother, who became a stewardess and married and more middle class man. Ms. Middleton's mother was the one behind the business they began which gave them the wealth to advance even further, into upper middle class status and now into the elite royalty and aristocracy.

Anonymous said...

This was a great post and totally true.Structure is definitely what is needed for black girls to go further sooner.Many of us are having to teach ourselves things that we should have learned at home or are having to put ourselves through school and develop the vision for our own futures.As a kid, this is can be so hard when you just don't know what to do or what you want to do.

@Bettyboo prevention is key.We cannot go back and stop that woman from making the wrong choice that SHE made,but we can raise our daughters right and let them know that when they choose to have children by uninvolved unloving selfish dbr males they will be on their own.
We can make them realize that certain privileges will be unavailable to them and their children despite how hard they work depending on the bum they have the children with.

I happen to know a couple of women who plan families with what the government will give them in mind.They want to have kids,the man won't commit or get a job(even though they have one),and they choose to have kids anyway because they have already decided in their minds to seek assistance from the government, and EVERYONE EXCEPT THE FATHER, BEFORE the kids are ever even born.

I sympathize with some never married single women with children I really do, but you get to an age where you have to start doing grown up things.Maybe the chick was young and dumb and completely misled when she was impregnated and left to fend for herself and children.I don't know, but as a grown woman she stole and now she has to pay.I also wonder if the father was paying child support?
I wonder if he is doing anything to keep the mother of his children out of jail?I bet he isn't.Chances are the lady won't do twenty years,she might but I don't think she will.She will get in trouble in some way though which she should.She took a gamble and she loss that's life.

Someone said women rise and fall everyday according to the man they are attached to.They couldn't have been more "righter".


Gardenia said...

"Structure is definitely what is needed for black girls to go further sooner.Many of us are having to teach ourselves things that we should have learned at home or are having to put ourselves through school and develop the vision for our own futures.As a kid, this is can be so hard when you just don't know what to do or what you want to do."

So true.

There seems to be little understanding among BW that we are to train and prepare our offspring for the best. I meet lots of BW around their 50's who are pining for their daughters to give them grandchildren. When I ask whether their daughters are married they look puzzled. Truly, these women look like I slapped them on the side of the head when I mention marriage. Now, these women are not lower-class BW who were brought up in single-parent homes on government assistance. These are women who went to Sunday school and had mum and dad and close knit community when they were growing up. Yet, they don't mind their unmarried daughters becoming a mother before a wife.

Now, if BW like these have such low expectation for their beautiful 20 something daughters what chance do these young women have, let alone positioning them for greatness.

There is much we can do. Take our daughters to the ballet, opera, fine restaurants, art galleries etc. Get them used to speaking to all walks of people so they don't clam up and become defensive when in an alien social setting. And whether we like it or not it is women who are responsible for preparing daughters. It simply wont do relying on teachers to prepare our daughters.

Icon (blackfemininity.com) wrote a valuable piece on BW not othering ourselves with the clothes we wear. This has helped me enormously. Her arguments can be extended to other areas of our self-presentation. We need to insert ourselves in unfamiliar environments to grow in confidence. We need to take the steps to do what will work for us and our children. Getting them out of toxic environments is only the first step. Getting them into productive, dominant environments is the next.

Our girls need parents who think, plan and guide. Our girls need to know how to be women who get what they need and want. I suggest two resources: Fascinating Womanhood and wwnh.wordpress.com

Faith said...

All good points Halima. This is how enterprising women position themselves and their offspring to live much better than they. Some people never plan or plan ahead so they have no expectations. Or their plans are built on more superficial ventures, not to position their family to dominate.

Anonymous said...

Black women have GOT to learn to think ahead BEFORE they sleep with a guy--the BABY WONT STAY A BABY FOREVER, and you have to find mentors for them especially when they hit the TEEN YEARS; college, the right 'people' to be around for that child---I don't understand why women are sooo stoopid with this; they need to get a puppy instead because it will become a dog;, and wait until marriage for children....

PioneerValleyWoman said...

I watched the entire ceremony, up at 3:00 am EST! I enjoyed watching it. I found it interesting that they don't want wedding gifts, but instead, money can be given to charities, one that she likes that combats bullying, since she was bullied in school. I wonder whether that took place in part because she was not upper class but her parents sent her to upper class schools? In any event, look who has the last laugh! Thinking of that "doors to manual joke" about her mom having been a stewardess. None of those aristocratic girls who might have looked down at her and her family got him! Tee hee...

Sheila said...

I liked the fact that Duke William did the 4ps
1. Provide
2. Protect
3. Problem solved
4. Produced

This is the guide to use when we vet our future King (smile).
Way to go Duchess Kate

Love in all colors said...

Let's pray that the obama's girl's are the next Kate Middleton.

IslandGirl said...

PionerVAlleyWoman: "...since she was bullied in school. I wonder whether that took place in part because she was not upper class but her parents sent her to upper class schools?"

I did not know that about her. Now I admire her even more. I am so glad that she did not let those bullies destroy her self-esteem. She clearly felt that she deserved to have Prince William, otherwise she would not have hung in there for so long.

I am very bothered by the tone of some of the BWE blogs (not this one), admonishing BW that we are in no position to be choosy and are obligated to consider any white man who wants us. Black women need to be the choosiest of all women, because we are at the bottom of the food chain and we will benefit the most from marrying the best man that we can attract.

Kate is 29 years old and she got her marriage proposal from William maybe 5 months ago. What if she had decided to settle for less than what she wanted 5 or 6 years ago, when there were probably people telling her that William would never marry her?

Princess Angela of Lichtenstein was over forty when she married her Prince. There were probably people telling her to hurry up and settle for a man she didn't want or else she would be old and lonely.

Anonymous said...

It also does not hurt that the Middleton women are attractive. Of course, looks are the icing on the cake. We all should have relatives who put into action a plan to move us up the economic ladder.


Anonymous said...

I noticed that Kate does not look like a typical british woman. LOL, one can tell she does not drink alot of tea because she has beautiful teeth, good dentist. I noticed that she and her brother has a tan, which is appealing. Her family prepared her well. Kate was cool as a cucumber.


Halima said...

Island girl you have to play that one very carefully. put plainly kate had everything to gain and a lot less to loose by waiting for Prince William, therefore I can see the sense in waiting for such a man (BTW Kate is actually older than prince william by a few months!).

The bullying I beolieve was becuase she was seen to be 'perfect' (well turned out and well behaved), i hear it was very vicious with nasty things done and I am very glad she kept her self together.

Indeed there are a lot of people who will try to make you behave 'your station', unfortunately many bw succumb in these kinds of scenerios. I have seen people 'compel' bw to act the sterotypical 'black woman' and many bw give in just to get the pressure off their backs.

Anonymous said...

Those are four great Ps.
No offense, the Obama girls are going to do well in life. So far so good. It's the rest of us everyday bw that need to be concern about our futures.


Anonymous said...

Tan? Probably fake. Teeth? Well many young women look after their teeth today - if they can afford to. My sense is Catherine made the most of herself and stuck with what suited her. Rather than opt for fashion forward apparel she chooses clothing which are considered timeless. I noted the many comparisons between her wedding dress and Grace Kelly's. Long hair, slim figure and a winning smile will open doors.

I do think it was a risky strategy waiting for William. Who knows what went on between them but I get the feeling she was very much in command. She steered the relationship to marriage.

I too have noticed how BW are 'encouraged' overtly and covertly to act the stereotypical BW. It is no joke. Sadly we often make the mistake of assuming the role without the nudge. I think it goes back to the same old argument of wishing to appear authentically black. Which hasn't served us well. We end up constricting ourselves to such a degree that we only feel comfortable when wearing black style clothing, going to black social events, reading black literature and so on. Until we break out of these boxes all the talk about marrying a prince is academic.

Anonymous said...

Funny, but I'm not aware of any BWE blogs that tell black women to settle for just anything that comes their way as long as he's white.

ALL of them do say to put certain qualities ahead of others... and that if you're still single well into your 30s and 40s and expecting to find a perfect 10 looks-wise (instead of considering a 7 or 8 who is a great provider and treats you like a queen... as many white and Asian women do), then maybe you're contributing to your own unmarried status by not understanding the point people are trying to make about vetting WM.

Anonymous said...

And I know that I am certainly not at the bottom of anyone's food chain!

I really wish BW would stop saying that. Go ahead and be at the bottom of the food chain if you want to be, but I've never accepted that for MY life, nor should any BW.

Halima said...

anon thanks for picking up on the issue of bw seeing themselves at the bottom of the food chain(i tend to gloss over comments and often miss out details).

Honestly folks, if you believe that then you are already defeated from inside. many people deem bw less but that is their construction, because all too often and easily we prove that we are not at the bottom of any food chain.

bw have to be careful how they use or adopt phrases and terms, explaining how the society might position bw does not mean BWE are accepting we are at the bottom of a food chain.

can i get bw to retire that phrase or statement. maybe we would start feeling and acing better if we didnt have such phrases in our vocabulary!

Anonymous said...

Certainly Halima! :)

I'm not one who tries to dismiss certain internal and external struggles that BW might be having because of our upbringings and current circumstances, in some cases, but I believe it's incredibly counterproductive and self-defeating to continue to have a defeatist thought process.

I appreciate the last three posts you've had to try to challenge us to be more proactive about dating IR and helping our children (or future children if we don't have any now) along a path that ensures their overall success -- and that includes romantic success!

But I fear they fall on deaf ears if the constant refrain is how "BW are at the bottom of the food chain/totem pole," "WM in this location don't date BW," "Matchmaking/dating services are too expensive," etc.

I just hope people are using the wisdom shared on these boards to improve their lives and not just using them to have venting sessions while they remain stagnant both mentally and physically.

We BW deserve all the success we can get... and the world is OUR oyster, so we need to get out there and start claiming what's ours instead of crying about what we don't have right now.

IslandGirl said...

Anonymous: "and that if you're still single well into your 30s and 40s and expecting to find a perfect 10 looks-wise (instead of considering a 7 or 8 who is a great provider and treats you like a queen... as many white and Asian women do),"

What makes you so certain that BW who are still single are in that position because they are waiting for a perfect 10? I have yet to meet a man that I considered a perfect 10 and I don't believe that there is such a thing; everyone has flaws.

Many people like to claim that BW want Brad Pitt, but guess what. I don't think that Brad Pitt is a "10". I think he is nice looking, but I don't dream about him. I have been attracted to guys much less attractive than Brad Pitt.

I also don't believe that less attractive men are necessarily more loving and kinder than men who are considered more attractive. I once dated a guy who was quite plain and he was so possessive and jealous it drove me crazy. He felt that I was too pretty for him and that one day I would cheat on him with a nicer looking guy. He was also very bothered by other men looking at me and wanted me to dress to downplay my attractiveness in order for him to feel more secure. I did not feel like a Queen with him; I felt like a prisoner.

On the other hand, 10 years ago, I did not take seriously the interest of a VERY handsome man because certain people whose opinion I trusted at the time said that he was too pretty and would never settle down. Well, that pretty boy is now married to an average looking woman several years older than he, owns his own home, has a PHd and is well respected in his field.

Black women would not need to settle for less than what they wanted if they started looking for a mate much earlier. Kate Middleton did not meet William 2 years ago. They dated off and on for eight years. So that means she started looking for a companion in her early 20s. Even if she did not get William, I am sure there were other great guys whom she met along the way who would have wanted her.

So I would advice young BW to do as Kate did. Start early. An education and employment is important, but it is possible to do those things concurrent with finding a mate.

You are right. The food chain expression was not the right one. What I meant to convey is that since BW as a group are lower down on the socioeconomic ladder, they will benefit more by getting the best guy and that often means dating a lot and waiting to see how things will turn out. They should not of course, wait forever, but that would not be necessary if they started early.

Anonymous said...

To IslandGirl,

In reference to that Ph.D. pretty boy...Ouch, when he married.

Brad Pitt is on a scale of 8.

To anony:

Of course, the tan is fake and she is wearing veneers on her original teeth.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

From the interview I saw of them upon their engagement, I have a sense that his waiting had less to do with what typically happens in instances where women "wait and wait and wait" for a man who can marry them in six months, but was really about them maturing into being able to handle together the stresses of his life.

He has been in the public eye since he was a baby. Any woman in his life would have to be able to handle that and all the demands that goes with being a future queen.

Something else interesting, I find, is that they apparently were friends first, especially since he has had to be so careful about who he lets into his life, with all kinds of people who are of the type who are looking to get something from him because of his position. He obviously needed to find a woman he could trust.

Wasn't there this story about their breakup and people looking to buy her "story," but she refused? It probably cemented their relationship.

She obviously proved herself to be the kind of woman he needs as a life partner--someone who seems discreet, loyal, mature, poised, quiet, feminine all around. As she apparently once said, "he's lucky to have her, not necessarily that she is lucky to be with him!"

I say all this because he could have his pick of women of all types whom he dated before, all sorts of attractive women. But the physical attraction is just one aspect...

I must say I liked the entire thing, the warmth I could see between them in the ceremony, their connection, affection, the support they give each other. I think I melted when I saw him check her out upon reaching the altar and he told her she looked beautiful. I think I swooned again when he bowed to his grandmother after the ceremony...

Quite delightful, the ceremony, the formality...

I liked seeing how my Anglican "cousins" do church over there...not as high a service as I would have expected for an Anglican service at Westminster, but I can see why--it was religious, but not as religious as a full mass....

Anonymous said...

I agree with Island Girl that there are many Black mothers who do not want their daughters to do better than they. You'd think that any parent would long for that, but many Black moms are jealous of their daughters.

My mom was such a mom. While I had many advantages growing up (I went to the ballet and plays growing up and took dance and piano classes and went to good, private, Catholic schools from K-12), she was more and more against me dating, well, anyone as I grew older. I think a huge part of it was she had a mental illness, but a huge part of that was she was born in the 1920s and I was born right after the Civil Rights movement. Here was a daughter who'd grow up with opportunities she could have only dreamed of in her youth. It created not a generation gap but a generation chasm between us.

I think a large part of her was jealous of that. Even as she insisted upon it, why should I have a better education at integrated schools? Why should I have all these opportunities that she didn't have including the option to date and wed a non-Black man? She was stuck in the "it's not fair" space of comparing her life to my potential one.

In many ways, she tried to sabotage me. And I must admit in some ways, she succeeded. I'm married to a wonderful man, a REAL man. I know my mother would not be happy for me even though he treats me like gold because of the bitterness she wears like a shroud.

I also believe that Black women, especially Black women in America, can learn a LOT from the lessons of now PRINCESS Kate's upbringing. if nothing else, the idea that marrying a good, decent, loving, successful (or at least an earnest provider) man is NOT outside the realm of possibility for us. I remember a time when folks thought, no-KNEW that William would treat Kate like Charles treated Camilla way back in the day (pre-Diana), basically have his fun with her and move on and settle down with a titled young lady because anything else was just preposterous. Oops, that didn't happen, now did it?

There is Princess Angela as someone mentioned and an African (West African with the features and hair and all) woman who married a French count. And remember the Real Housewives of NYC? Well, the FORMER Countess Luann got thrown over for an Ethiopian woman. Black women, ESPECIALLY AA women, need to quit putting limits and breaks on our own dreams. You get a lot more when your reach exceeds your grasp than if you're only going to reach for what's closeby. Will you get yourself a titled man? Maybe not, but you'll get a better one if you extend your reach than if you kept your arms at your sides.

Now there's speculation about Kate's sister, Pippa, but she's already dating a successful financier who used to be a professional cricket player. So it seems that BOTH daughters got the "marry well" message.

mochachoc said...

PioneerValleyWoman I agree with all your sentiments. I am not a Christian nor do I believe in a god but I was moved by the ceremony. The words and music were apt and important. As I mature I see more value in tradition, belief in something greater than ourselves and self-discipline. In the past I would have seen it as stuffy and boring. Now I have great respect for it all.

I used to be anti The Royal Family; I just couldn't see the sense in spending our tax money on them (lets face it; they haven't behaved royally a lot of the time). However, I see now that the institution is greater than the individuals.

I hope Catherine will be an example for all British women. There is a lot we could learn from her. Not least a return to modesty. I just don't know how I missed the value and power of femininity.

As an aside; pending parents please think carefully about the name you give your child.

Lisa99 said...


I think your take on Kate waiting for William is the correct one.

While I do believe that Kate's upbringing and behavior can provide a lot of lessons for women (and black women in our particular case), I don't think her "waiting for a man" decision should be one of them. I even saw a dating blog geared toward a mainstream audience (so mostly white women) using Kate and William's long courtship and living together as an example for people to follow for their own future marriages.

I don't think so.

Obviously, I'm not privy to the innermost details of William and Kate's courtship, but we know that William well understood the pressures that a princess would face from the outside world and how difficult it would be if she was unprepared. He watched his father, Charles, initially miss out on being with the love of his life (Camilla) because a man of his background was expected to marry a blushing virginal bride with some royal ties (Diana).

Charles was 32 when he married 19-year-old Diana. The wedding might have been a fairytale, but the marriage certainly was not, and Diana met an untimely death just as she was coming into full bloom as a woman in her 30s. The two barely knew each other, and it was clear that it was a forced match.

William, I'm sure, knew that whenever he was going to marry, he would want a wife whom he truly knew, loved and trusted, and a wife who would not suffer under the pressure of being a queen-in-waiting like his mother did.

Plus, royals usually have children very soon after marriage, so if William and Kate follow tradition, there will be no multi-year period of having fun as a couple before babies come along like most of us get.

Long story short, the waiting that Kate did for marriage to William seemed to have a purpose. And during that time, she was gradually being groomed for her future role. Considering how short their engagement was, I seriously doubt Kate was sitting around for the last 3-4 years having no idea where her relationship was headed.

(And let's not forget that she did break up with William for a brief period... so obviously, she was willing to let him go if she wasn't getting what she wanted.)

All this being said, the average "commoner" (so, all of us) would be foolish to date someone for the majority of our 20s, move in with him and hope we ended up married to him at some point. It doesn't take long for a normal man of quality who doesn't have royal duties hanging over his head to propose marriage to a woman.

That being said... as for Princess Angela, she married Prince Max six months after they began dating. They met two years earlier and were friends, but became a couple in the summer of 1999 and married in winter 2000. While she might have waited a long time to meet Mr. Right, she did NOT wait very long to get a ring!

I wish I knew more about their courtship, but either way, the message was clear (either from him or her) that there would not be a long dating period before they got hitched! I think that's a great lesson for us commoners to learn. :)

PioneerValleyWoman said...


Not least a return to modesty. I just don't know how I missed the value and power of femininity.

My reply:

And of integrity, decency, courage...Or in today's society, we don't even think of it.

I saw a book recently that 100+ years ago, when young women wrote in their diaries about what they hoped to become, they spoke of their interest in being decent women as we are describing here--the hallmark of a different time. What do young women want today? I don't think all young women aspire to the same values as those so long ago.

But haven't many young women miss it because they are told that those types of values are "old fashioned," or "prissy," or "white," as in the case of black women??? Someone spare us!

And who downplays those values, who benefits? Women without those values in a misery-loves-company type of thing, who like to tear down the women who are doing better, or men who don't value decent women, because those are the types of women who are "high maintenance," ie., they are the types of women who expect to be treated well, with courtesy and respect...Those types of women expect to get the ring. They won't be women they go to for sex only...

PioneerValleyWoman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PioneerValleyWoman said...

to Lisa99:

Regarding Kate Middleton and waiting, that is what I was getting at. It seems that is the lesson some have been taking from here, that waiting alone was worth it, just because she won in the end.

That is no different from black women who wait, wait and wait, when marriage could have taken place much earlier, so I was cautioning readers to realize that their situation of waiting was far different.

Readers should take a look at the interview they gave right after their engagement--very informative. Informative as well, William and Harry interviewing with Matt Lauer (?) about what it is like for them to have normal lives with friends and girlfriends.

Anonymous said...

"The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life."

— Muhammad Ali

just a thought.


Christelyn said...

Right again! The aumenting of family status is understood by EVERYONE but us, it seems. We should use Kate's family timeline as a template and a working example of what that looks like, since most of us have not a clue.

Frannie said...

I have to admit something that is very hard for me to admit, and that is, the first time I dated out, I unconsciously sabotaged that relationship because of my own insecurities and my always-present feeling that I didn't deserve a partner to be so good to me.

And so I was always in a perpetual state of waiting for the other shoe to drop, for him to break up with me because:

I was too coarse, too loud, too black, too fat, too bitchy, too demanding, too something. Or, that his mother would convince him to leave me, or he would get the white woman he really wanted, or he was embarrassed to be with me around his friends, or something.

None of these things happened and none of these things was present, but I was so suspicious and so touchy about any/all of these things that eventually I drove him away. And he was a good man and a good-looking man and he really, truly loved me, and his best friend told me two years later he didn't go out on even one date for 14 months after we broke up.

I love my mother but she not only never set me up for great things, she constantly reinforced the point of view that I would be lucky to get married, and then subsequently stay married to some under-achiever, because "men were just no damn good".

Anonymous said...

Just remember ladies, most of us cannot afford to play the waiting game. Kate probably knew William was on the road to matrimony by the way he behaved with her and her family.


mochachoc said...

Frannie I hope you are happily married now.

What you describe is, I think, common. BW just don't believe they are good enough. So they (and others) set about unconsciously or otherwise to prove the point. This is why I believe it is counter-productive to repeat that we are the bottom of the barrel or the bottom of the socio-economic scale. All the BW I know work and own their own homes. Most are educated with first and second degrees. But what do we tend to do with those assets? Gobbled up by family and no good men. We make poor choices on who we align ourselves with.

We really do need to learn how to capitalise on all our economic and social assets. Why wouldn't good men want us? We've proved that we are resilient, committed, warm, fun and hard working - even with all the forces that push against us. The Kate Middleton's of this world really have nothing on us. Yet, I know most of us don't believe it.

Anonymous said...

"BW just don't believe they are good enough. So they (and others) set about unconsciously or otherwise to prove the point."



Anonymous said...

@ anony. 9:36

Today, 5/3 was I speaking with a friend about her two 20something daughters. One has a bf and the other does not. Again, I was trying to get my friend to at least get her daughters thinking about quality other race men. As usual my friend goes silent, she does not like talking about irr. Oh, well that is her daughters. My friend is married but, miserable and that is one good reason my friend should encourage her daughters to spread their wings as far as they can go.


ak said...

I remember looking at a Daily Mail newspaper that my Mom had back in 2001 or 2002 possibly (?) that had all over the cover of it and on the inside cover pics of Naomi Campbell and William sitting together at some do or other,

And William was clearly smitten and couldn't take his eyes off her. He was clearly talking to her in the pics. Naomi kept looking away from him and had a quiet slight smsile or smugness but she looked from the pics to not want to draw him in too much or not to lead him on. Actually in those pics Naomi looked slightly bored or like she wanted to talk to someone else. I can see why she felt that she should act that way though.

But the Daily Mail pages themselves even were quoted saying that William was obviously smitten with Naomi. From those pics, it was like he never her left her side, looked or spoke to anyone for the rest of that evening (I assume it was in the evening LOL)

But this is all true and I wish that I had kept that paper now! LOL

Lisa99 said...

AK, I believe you. I actually read an article that mentioned that in the 1990s, Prince Charles saw her at a fashion show and mentioned how beautiful she was.

Naomi, in my opinion, has done a very poor job of using her beauty and access to elite society to her advantage in terms of her romantic relationships. Men of all races love her, but her engagements never end in marriage. Perhaps that is her choice, but I'm not quite sure. Now she's with a married Russian billionaire who seems to have no intention of leaving his wife, even as he pursues Naomi.

If Naomi had had a better plan, she could have been a shining example of overcoming her circumstances growing up as a poor, fatherless black girl in South London.

ak said...

You know what Lisa99 I think Naomi really is satisfied and accepting of her super jet set lifestyle with her many boyfriends believe it or not. I think she chooses that way of life too. She's been engaged more than once, way more, and I think that she's the one doing the breaking off somehow and it never stops her from getting more men where that came from regarding which phone she throws at whoever's head! LOL

It just sounds from the media at any case as though the rich Russian really 'fell' her as opposed to the men in her past. I cannot see Naomi with any elite, royally or politically connected men at all even if she was little Miss Perfect all the time. Because she has always lived as though she wanted her whole life to be 'no strings attached' with everything.

A friend once told me that this was why Naomi never signed for any restrictive cosmetic contracts or Victoria Secret contracts where they tell you that you can only model for them, Gisele left a contract like that for VS not that long ago for the same reason, and possibly the reason why Naomi appears to have possibly broken so many engagements.

Naomi should be married 100 times over by now! She lives as though she doesn't like ties of any kind. Her life, her choice though.

MayDarling said...

When I read articles like, I thank the creator that my mother took me to plays and to the ballet when I was younger and put me into better schools and encouraged me to go away to college and to travel. So many of my peers from high school are loaded down with children and no prospects. I purposely did not settle or have a bunch of babies out of wedlock because she specifically groomed me for something better. My aunt is doing the same thing with my cousins - she and her husband moved from the city to the suburbs where her children can make good connections that will last them throughout their lives. That should be our real legacy.

Kitty said...

It has been wonderful to read this article and the many informative comments. I have 2 daughters and I am actively raising them to seek the sun, and hopefully reach the heavens. The first thing I am doing is making sure they know at least 2 foreign languages fluently. One of them must be Asian and one European. I just want them to have options I did not have. I married up, and I want them to marry up and out.