Tuesday, May 15, 2012

They dont have to hate you to not want to date you!

It is important to understand and recognize how other act towards you because you will need this knowledge to be able to formulate a good plan and strategy for going forward socially.

Black men and leaning on resources of black women
When black men start out in life, they lean heavily on the resources and the good-will of black women. When black men arrive at some form of social stability they begin to protest this 'confinement' to black women as lovers and for relationships. This is one of the main dynamics draining wealth from black circles and represents the 'outward pouring' dynamic (resources traveling always out and away from black women, who create more only to have it move outwards again and again as they use it to build black men up) that leaves many black women poor and depletes their resources whether physical, emotional or mental.

Am I saying all black men do this? No, but it is done in significant numbers to be an issue for black women and an issue in terms of the drain on the meager resources black women can hardly spare. In addition many black men looking at the state of affairs also begin to aspire to the same dynamic if and when they can (once they don’t need black women to sponsor or support them). Indeed because this dynamic seems to go hand in hand with notions of prestige (i.e. rich and well to do black men picking lighter and even white skinned women and so acquiring these women is correlated with being successful etc), the trend continues upwards.

What accounts for the singleness rates among even well turned out black women
One key factor is black women focusing their romantic attention on black men exclusively. Not only does it create a culture where the idea is sold abroad that no other men need apply, it keeps black males confident that they can always get a black women and thus don’t need to be in a hurry to commit to any (and from observation this gamble is paying off as black women willingly take on, support and subsidize men who are pass their prime or who have become financially depleted). The value of black women is lowered, since no one else appears to be asking them out.

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I want to emphasize the point I made in the title: Black men don’t need to hate black women to not date them.

I think many folk might have gleaned the impression unwittingly from as BWE bloggers, that only black man who have contempt for black women (and show this in their actions, manner etc) exclude black women from their dating options. Many of us have come across these men, there is no denying it, however I want to illuminate the fact that not every black man excludes black women because of hate. There are black men who smile at black women, commend them on their efforts for community, say, 'Hey sis you look good', stop the bus to let you on, pull up a chair for you or move along for you to sit down....they still wont date you though!

I repeat, many black men dont actually hate black women or bear them ill-will but they just will not date them or marry them, many even feel attracted to black women but will end up with white and other women for all sorts of social and personal reasons. To the black women, no matter the 'good times' and 'laughs' if you are looking to be romantically attached, these men are of ZERO value to you!

Many black women spend years thinking, “Well he laughs at my jokes, compliments me on my natural hair, says kind words to me, spoke positively about me to management ...something is going to happen between us soon.” A black woman could quite easily spend years and years thinking that the black men around who show drips and drops of this social affection are just one step away of asking them out on a date. Whether it is church or work these black women hang around on hope until they loose the bloom of youth. Its a heartbreaking thing to see happen, yet in that state, you can hardly reach these women with reason.

The black woman of today must grow socially intelligent and must be able to read and interpret the running scripts of society in its response to her, especially when it is a repeating theme! A black woman cannot be helped if she wants to ignore the themes or pretend they aren’t there. Every other group on earth moves forward by being savvy to their situation. As I recently told a black woman, 'Black men are not marrying black women to any significant extent in today’s western society. It is for black women to figure this out quickly and get over the shock and paralysis to change course and rescue their own romantic and relationship ambitions.'


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"Supposing I wanted to Date a White Guy...?" is also available on Kindle


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Do Black Women in Afros Date White Guys?
 

22 comments:

samadhi101 said...

Hi,Ms.Halima!
Long time lurker here lol I've read all your blog post and your insights have changed my life for the better, so first off THANK YOU :)
I'm in college and I've always noticed this trend since I hang around nerdy people (anime fans, fantasy nerds,Trekies,Dr.Who fans,etc.). There are a couple of black guys who run in my circles who I have a lot in common with in terms of sense of humor and interests. They compliment my looks and are always eager to hear my inputs in conversations. HOWEVER, I stopped expecting these guys to ask me out ages ago. Why? Well I couldn't explain it fully then, but I now see that these black guys eagerly wanted emulate White and Asian men in our hangout groups from their interests to their romantic choices. It was so obvious.
I still have to remind myself sometimes that BW and BM have EXTREMELY different point of views. BM truly believe lighter/whiter skinned people have strong successful groups, not because they had male leaders who protected women and children and cultivated innovative minds, but because white skin gave them magical powers. Despite all the posturing, too many BM believe they're inherently inferior to non-BM be they friendly BM or DBR BM. This mindset is so deeply ingrained and has been spread by BM to BM for decades. BW need to view these men as zombies: they’ve been bitten, so be on your guard. I’m beginning to think it’s prudent to view ALL BM as potential zombies.
I’ve noticed these friendly BM can easily morph into “Good Black Men” and begin to display their DBR attitudes more boldly. It’s never because BW did anything to them, it’s because they get frustrated with their feeling of inferiority. They tend to create entire narratives for their lives ,where they star as anti-heroes. Most BM know that their group acts abnormally when compared to other groups of men, so they’ve begun to see themselves as rebels/”individuals” in order to cultivate some pride ( while continuing to ape other men *eyeroll*). “Friendly” BM who don’t date BW also view themselves rebels/”individuals” just a more benign one lol. They are also deeply insecure about their identity and relationships with non-BW. I was reading the blog of this atheist BM horror writer who is married to a WW. He never denigrates BW but I remember a few bog posts that stood out to me. He was talking about how a BW asked why he chose a WW when a BW would “understand him more”. He then went on about how he was a “complex, individual” and that most BW are religious and so they wouldn’t have much in common. Now, mind you, his WW wife is a Christian, but we all know why her beliefs didn’t stop him from pursuing her LOL! In another post he talked about how he favored bigger women. He said that his wife had gained a few pounds and that he was afraid to be seen in public with her because, get this: he was afraid they would run into a beautiful BW and she would look upon him in disgust! He then goes on to give a long winded speech, basically about the importance of fat acceptance, hahaha. “Friendly BM/ DBR BM/Good BM are two sides of the same coin: They all lack objective self awareness. “Friendly” BM still want us to “like” them because they think we’ll come in handy at some point in their lives. They’ll take, take, take and give nothing back BW. Just from observing these relationships in my personal life, it seems most BW will do anything for a BM who is merely nice to her. These BM believe that simply being kind to us is enough, hell they see themselves as Gandhi even! lol

Faith said...

I get the point you're trying to make (and will question whether you're referencing LEGIT BWE messaging that provides critical analysis), but what else do you call the MASS indifference, silence, outright defamation, apathy present for the abandonment and oppression?

Hate is not always aggressive or shown plainly.

It certainly isn't ARBITRARY! And why haven't these 'friendly' males addressed the behavior of the masses? They benefit from the weakened condition of BW that's why.

Superficial pleasantries does not negate self-hate, indoctrination, racio-misogyny and hunting for "exceptions".

Any BW who slacks off and fails to think critically is making a mistake following this line of thinking.

Since most BW still don't use discernment where BM are concerned and miss the nuances between being used, ignored, undermined or discarded they can not afford to get lax when it comes to improving their lives.

That doesn't mean BW should hate them back but they MUST separate because we ALL know BW are too loyal to people, places and practices that do NOT benefit them.

ACCURATE ANALYSIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE.

BlackWomenDeserveBetter.Com said...

“Well he laughs at my jokes, compliments me on my natural hair, says kind words to me, spoke positively about me to management ...something is going to happen between us soon.” A black woman could quite easily spend years and years thinking that the black men around who show drips and drops of this social affection are just one step away of asking them out on a date.


THIS^^^^

This is where I've been tricked by 'TheBigConMan' so many as a young adult. But then again, this is how MARKS are made. Get the dupe beliving he/she is close to obtaining a prize...And just when it's with their grasp, move the target. We then tell the mark that missing her reward was due to some shortcoming...If only she were more (or perhaps less) educated, beautiful, slimmer, lighter, accomodating, etc...

arthur said...

BM truly believe lighter/whiter skinned people have strong successful groups, ... because white skin gave them magical powers.

'How could anyone believe this is true? was my first reaction to reading it. My next reaction was 'Of course, it explains so much.'

Halima said...

Faith I agree. For many bm the hate is possibly something they arent even aware they are acting in, but many are aware of their bile towards bw and all this niceness is all part of the deception or adds towards setting her up for misuse. Also maybe it is necessary to lump this kind of 'I like you but wont date you' as part and parcel of the overall bm contempt for bw.

I think however I am pointing out that it is bw that see these men as 'freindly' or think these men like them. And so i am tellinbg bw that these me who they think 'like' them or act like they like them in any number of ways will still shun them so essentially and ultimately this whole liking business is a hill of beans...

Patricia Kayden said...

I hope some day BW figure things out and stop being chumps to DBR BM.

Is it possible that some BW simply like being used because they'll do anything to support the "Black community", which really means rallying around BM's needs?

themoxiesophic said...

There is so much truth in this post I don't even know where to start. I have to cosign with samadhi101 because as someone who was a comic book collector and huge anime fan, I often ran into these types of black guys. Quite frankly I don't think black women are missing out since these BM types were socially awkward and had tons of issues outside of race. Nevertheless I do think black women need to exercise healthy boundaries when dealing with men of any race. As someone who dates men from all races, it's pretty easy to discern whether a guy has romantic interest in a woman. I do not believe in spending an exorbitant amount of time with a man who has not expressed romantic interest in a woman or proven himself through actions. If a woman is marriage-minded then she needs to limit the time she spends with platonic male friends. In the past I've fallen into the trick bag of the home girl who is there to support the guy friend emotionally, talk to him, go out, and basically act as a companion without any of the benefit of having a loving relationship. These guys were masquerading as good men but in reality I was being used emotionally even though they picked up I was catching feelings. In the back of my head I hoped that my status would get elevated to that of a girlfriend if I just stuck around and supported him. Thinking back I was auditioning for the role of the girlfriend! Silly me but thankfully I picked up on game rather quickly. I do not invest emotionally or spend significant amounts of time hanging out with guys who do not have a romantic interest in me. While I still have guy friends they have a very limited amount of my time. If they want my time, my standard is that they have to take me out, pay for dinner and treat me. Otherwise my time and energy is spent on men who are pursuing me for romantic interest...and not to brag I have a roster at this moment of eligible bachelors who want to pursue a romantic interest in me. I want to encourage black women to believe they are worthy of love, affection, and marriage. Wasting time is why so many black women are single. While I still think there are marriage-minded black men who want to love and marry black women, many of them are playing the field and taking advantage of desperate black women who are willing to settle for scraps. Black women still need to expand their dating pool to other men for two reasons; Exposure to other people and cultures is a very enriching process and secondly having your options open by getting different types of men courting you will increase your confidence. Having different men court you will make all these debate and noise about the state of Black women’s love life completely irrelevant. Good luck and God speed.

4BlackWomenONLY said...

BRILLIANT POST!!
I would love to share this on our Facebook group page. Black women need to hear this!!!!

4BlackWomenONLY said...

BRILLIANT POST!!!
I want to share with with our Facebook page members. Black women need to hear this. You speak the truth always!! Bravo.

Halima said...

4BlackWomenOnly yes do share and keep up the good work. i will include the links to the reposted video!

Dee Dee Russell said...

Hi Halima!
Thank you for all of your good works.

Yes I run into these types of BM all the time, they crave a sisterly cheerleader. However, I can always tell that they just want a listening ear...I don't listen to what they say, I watch what they do.

One BM I knew spent most of an evening whining about how his ex, an Asian "trapped" him into fatherhood, smashing his dreams of moving to NYC an forcing him to pay child support.

I knew the game. But I'm a satirical artist and listened, as I admit to using my life as art. At the end of the night, did that man ask me how was I getting home, would I be safe, etc. etc.? NOPE. But if I was a WW or AW I'm sure he would have.

The majority of those type have never married a BW. TSo it's easy for me to slot them into to 'associate' territory.

BM aren't the only ones who wish to use BW as a cheerleader, mascot and emotional mammy.

WW love to do that as well then grow bitter when you get the 'white girl' treatment from surrounding men. I do give everyone the benefit of the doubt but when I see who and what they are, they get slotted into the appropriate catagory with the quickness.

Faith said...

I felt the need to address the portion where you mentioned BWE bloggers may have overemphasized hatred of BM for BW, which I'm not aware of.

The argument about distinguishing variances was solid on its own. I think correctly addressing these situations are necessary, but nuance and comprehension is always subjective.

I've written that BW must not assume automatic loyalty http://actsoffaithblog.com/dbr-alert-every-black-male-is-%E2%80%9Cguilty%E2%80%9D-before-being-proven-innocent

I also recall this convo about so-called 'good bm' http://sojournerspassport.com/for-all-practical-purposes-most-self-proclaimed-good-black-men%E2%84%A2-pookie-and-ray-ray/

Was there some other content you were referencing?

Halima said...

Faith nothing in particular just the simple reading that could be made from what could be seen as an emphasis on out and out DBR and their antics in our writings.

i dont think this is any kind of condemnation of our work though, just reiterating the point that this thing goes beyond obvious and open haters and misusers of bw.

Halima said...

Hi Dee Dee good to see you around :)

My Brother, Freeway Mike McCarter said...

Thanks, Halima and please excuse the typos I was totally tired and forgot to spell check!

Evia said...

Halima, I agree!! I think that a big part or actually the key part of why so many bw focus on bm exclusively is because many bw still really, really want to preserve the black ethnic group and have a "black" family, whereas that's not a priority at all to typical AA and similar bm. Indeed, we know that many bm absolutely do NOT want a "black" family. That critical difference in the priorities right there is often overlooked by the typical bw and leads to ruination of many lives.

I repeat: To the typical AA or similar bm, the survival of their "black" ethnic family or group is not important and we can see that by the general behavior of typical bm of this type. Many bw think in an opposite way and cannot wrap their brains around a bm not thinking similarly.

So, if a bm of this type gets a smile or sees an inroad into a non-bw's life, he quickly takes it since preserving his ethnic group is not a priority--AT ALL. Therefore, his children's survival is just not important to him--in most cases. The desire for a non-bw has also always been a barely-contained desire passed down through the generations of bm. So, when those two factors are combined, the bm doesn't have to hate a bw in order not to date her--as you so aptly said. A bw is nothing special to him and if she has standards, she is simply not worth the effort to a typical bm to win her or keep her. Thus she is easily used if possible and then pushed to the back of the bus.

However, if you ask a typical bw why she thinks a bm should want to choose her over a non-bw, she will almost always start talking about some version of history or "preserving the black family," which, as I said, is not even on his priority radar.

Many AA and similar black men, however, cannot or will not articulate this, but when you talk to bm of certain other ethnicities (like Africans), you hear right away that they place a high priority on preserving their ethnic group.

The striking difference in the attitudes of these groups of bm has to do with the lack of a CULTURE on the part of AA and similar bm. This is a DEEP problem with numerous implications that many bw cannot grasp. Being with a bm of this type is like being with a HOLLOW man. Yet, many bw are willing to lay down the lives to get this type of man.

samadhi101 said...

Evia said: "Being with a bm of this type is like being with a HOLLOW man. "

Big "a hah!" moment for me when I realized this along time ago, I just could never name the vibe I got from them. They truly don't get it (probably never will). I always thought I was being too judgmental but since middle school I always sensed a blankness beneath any personality they would convey. This is why I don't get BW who try to talk them. Don't they get their speaking AT them? The can't be talked TO. When I hear them try to make a point about anything, they simply repeat what the last BM said, while putting on an air intelligence (arrogance really). They lack the courage too go deeper.

Dee Dee Russell said...

Sharing this for all the young BW..."They don't want you but they don't want anyone else to hav you"

Recently went to an event with a BM associate. He's been married *3* times...all to nonBlack women!

Told him -no cock blocking. See, he'd cock blocked me before at an event and I'd banned him from events (for about a year) for his fake-jealous routine - every time a nonBlack man approached he behaved in a possessive fashion.

Well...he did it again! We were sitting at a table, a WM sat down next to me and started to talk to me. The BM leaned over with a mean mug-like, WTF!

I turned to him and said in a firm voice NO COCKBLOCKING. IF YOU LIKED IT YOU SHOULD HAVE PUT A RING ON IT. He looked shocked and immediately apologized.

The WM asked me to dance...then when I went to freshen up. Afterwards the BM happily told me that WW hit on him when I left, asking "where is your wife" he said, "oh no she's my cousin" with a cheshire-cat grin. He seemed very happy that those women approached him.

I conclude many BM are nuts.

They don't want us but they don't want anyone else to have us.

Monique said...

Aloha, very glad to have found your website as I am expecting and a bit stressed. I am a BW now married to a WM, this is my second marriage. My first marriage lasted 16 years to a BM who was military. Very stressful. We have four children together whom he has not contacted in several years racking up 40k in back support. All this from an educated BM who more than had the resources to pay the little ordered and then some. He now has two more children with an Italian/Black woman whom he has not married. I of course am remarried to a WM who has resumed the responsibility of raising my four and our one we will soon have. I don't know if I'm feeling this way because of pregnancy but I'm experiencing feelings of bitterness towards my ex for not sticking around and raising his children especially his only son. I tried to make it easy for him and he just was not interested. I came to the conclusion that while making the babies was fun when it finally came to the very real responsibility of raising his children when he was placed on shore duty it was some he wanted nothing to do with. He of course used most of his time to cheat with non BW and ignore his family. This is a different experience from my now husband who spent most of his time actively looking for a partner to marry and start a family with but failing. Big contrast a lot of bitterness. I'm raising a BM I don't want his behaviour to echo his bio dads. I kinda feel like most BM are not wanting to be family types but WM after an appropriate time see it as a much wanted milestone. Am I crazy?!

ak said...

What Dee Dee Russell is describing is EXACTLY like The Supremes' song from the '60s called 'Keep Me Hanging On' ( a Supremes song which Kim Wilde covered back in the '80s).

Good old Diana Ross. Listen to the lyrics of that song it's all about a guy who doesn't love or want the lady singing the song, but he wants to have her at his beck and call and have her wasting her time on him basically.

No wonder Diana's love life mostly hasn't been BM because for some artists, some of the time at least, these songs can be very autobiographical! LOL

Michaelalovemw said...

Black men do seem to hate us. And they make it no secret that they do. They will bash Black women to our faces. They always talk about how Black women have too much attitude and all that other bs. Maybe we wouldn't if they didn't put White women on a pedestal. And before the dogs come out, I'm not talking about all Black men, I'm just speaking from experience.

Sadonia9 said...

Ladies run for your lives and I'm teaching my daughter the same thing, I wasted 7 years of my life on someone that never intended on marrying me. He strung me along for a while then I caught on and moved on. I am lucky that I left when I did because I still look youthful/ 36 passing for 24 fit and shapely.
Look out world here I come!