Monday, November 14, 2011

Mid November: Some more thoughts

I had spare moments within all the mayhem that is now my life last week and so I listened to some videos with RR Banks talking about his book, 'Is marriage for white people'. If you have a chance do listen to the four videos that are in this series (there is introductory part before this segment below )

What I gathered from the video about black women
  • A section of bw are having a hard time dealing with the truth
  • A good portion of black women in academia are painfully out of touch with the reality of black women on the ground, many are still touting the idea that a black male partner allows a black woman to be free and be herself and a black man is supportive of what a black woman goes through in society. Ha! It is very sad that RR Banks is having to clue black women about the real deal that they have missed-being stuck in their ivory towers and all-including the fact that black men are more likely to enforce oppressive codes of blackness (around hair and skin tone) on black women than white men.
  • Some black women would rather suggest that black women contort themselves in demeaning ways and take on all sorts of unwholesome ideologies like polygamy just so they can continue with the dating within the race paradigm
  • Black females in academia (espcially the variety that are in womens studies), are more interested in upholding the sacred analysis and readings of the situation (imposed by white feminsist theorists no doubt). They cling to their endorsed frameworks rather than look at devising new frameworks that serve the needs of black women. In addition a good many are just all about showing how sophisticated and clever they are when desperate issues are on the table 
  • The idea that black women are simply a support system for black men/the race is so strong within the imagination of black people that many cannot break out of this 'framing' to imagine black women as people in their own right not race props, but people with their own needs and desires that they need to take care off. Many in fact get so outraged at any suggestion that black women not 'perform' their 'support' role for BC and black men. It appears that to refuse to be a race prop amounts to bw denying others their righful access and entitlement to black women's time money indeed their very self! Whoever said slavery has ended might need to recheck that fact, at least in the case of bw. This is what I meant when I said that black women exist as 'creatures of the black community' forced to trace their very existence within its confines, that they become 'invalids' if they try to detach from this role. It is very sad that even a book as liberatory as 'Is marriage for white people', we still end up talking about how black women serve their race by their actions or non actions (and none of the 'academic' people even raised the issue of how problematic this general tendency to always talk about bw's options in terms of how this adds or takes away from her race!).  
Minority men using mnority women to win their battels and then 'Its the rubbish heap for you my dear!'
Today I was reminded again of how minority men moaning about 'le white men', are quick to exclude 'their' women as soon as a little space is granted them. Often they drag their women folk in and use them as battering rams or shields against white men, and as soon as they have used these women's bodies and stories to get a foot in the door, they toss these women away and become all 'diverse' and all liberated in their romantic choices! If minority women are too silly to see this 'game' being played again and again to let these men fight their own battles, then more fool them..................
Come together over racism
Many black women however want to connect with black men over the issue of racism, over 'what white men have and are doing.' I think the reason is because black women have seen that it appears to be the only thing that gets a response/interest from black men i.e. talking about how white men are holding them down etc etc. This situtation right here means black women will continue to want to ruminate about racism and race and get upset and mobilised over and carrying on about race because it represents the only way they can elicit some reaction (bond) with black men. This is one reason why black women will find it hard to put away their festering resentment against white men in particular, I think on some level they know it is probably the only thing that they can connect with black men over.

Speaking of black men and racism, I caught a glimpse of a young black man loudly talking about, 'The man' and 'They dont want us to progress etc etc', to another black man stall owner at a fruit market the other day. I dont know what made me smile more; the big, bold talk about whites and their racism or the white woman by his side with their mixed race baby in the buggy!

Imran Khan (google him)
The ability of men to combine almost extreme nationalistic politics and yet a love of women or a woman not of their 'nation', is a hypocritical attribute that most women dont seem to have, indeed nothing says it is a man's world more than the fact that men dont feel a need to explain or defend themselves when their politics is diametrically opposed to their romantic attractions. I watch my African male get all tribal and almost forment trouble with another tribe, all the while with a woman from this very same tribe at their side. I asked a freind the other day how his wife feels when he goes on about breaking away and forming their own 'nation' when his wife is from the tribe he wants to 'depart' from. His response was, 'She has come to see it my way!' Arrogant to boot.
Women will give up a good man because he doesnt 'rhymn' with what their politics says.  I suggest that black women seriously prospect this curious attribute that men have. Dont say 'he wont date black women' because he is conservative/rightwing etc. Apart from the fact that labels no longer describe accurately how people stand on a variety of issues and their values (the left for instance has taken to labelling people who challenge the model of 'big government' and endless government programs as rightwing even neocons when they could simply be challeneging a canard of the left which has failed to deliver in many areas), right and left leaning couples can have a blast of a relationship, the trick is to be convinced of your position and why you hold it (a strong conviction), and not take your partner differing on an issue, personally and as a slight against you!   

Anyway a vacation calls, my next entry will be in December ciao!

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Meena said...

Ms. Halima, I commend you on this post. Black women of higher education are also "out of touch." I saw this first hand when I attended undergrad and expressed my concerns to the few black women faculty members. They couldn't compute what I was saying, it's as if I was speaking a dead language. Either way, I am elated about the work of Professor Banks, and hope that more women like those whose beliefs are firmly in line with BWE, sound off on their views.

Brenda55 said...

I watched the opening statement videos. Very ivory tower and silly IMO.
Most of the questions they asked had no relation to the real world situations of most BW.

I had to laugh at the fist woman who wondered about the children. Now she is the product of a BWIR and is herself married to a WM and has a son. She is also a college educated and living a middle to upper middle class life. Seems to me her situation did not turn out bad now did it. The kids will be fine.

I also had to laugh at the second presenter who worried that woman who engage in BW/non-BM relationships risk marginalization. Say what??? I doubt the BC,which I assume she is talking about, could marginalize any one.

When you marry IR you have expanded your world not limited it. So that whole marginalization issue is bunk.

This last women was just anti-marriage so no need to even comment on her presentation. The gentleman.....yeah OK. Had nothing to do with me and was really just a discussion of marriage in the abstract.

Most of these academics were just picking around the edges of Rick Bank's book. They could not dispute the numbers and that really is what has people up in arms. The stats and the studies to back them up are there. The facts are not good for BW no matter how you slice it and it is up to BW to chart there own course and improve their options.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

I must say that when it comes to my academic friends, it depends on where they come from within the academy.

Some fields and perspectives come with their own far-lefty-out-of-this world perspectives that have no basis in reality. And when they come from women's studies or black studies, ideology trumps reality--everything must fit the ideology as compared to accurately describing reality in light of the ideology.

I'm so glad I was not "brought up" in the former school, but I remain a dedicated follower of the latter.

PioneerValleyWoman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jenny said...

Interesting post. I've noticed that black men in academia fully expect their black and mixed female students to tout the race line. And it annoys them so much if the students comfortably talk to white men.

Melissa Q said...

I think i understand what you mean when the "personal is not the political" only for men. The BM in the "Who's zooming who" post, Imran Khan, and also Thomas Jefferson (stateside) is a perfect example of this.

Welcome said...

Evia talked about that very same thing. Men teaching the women of their community to dress/act a certain way etc. but then will find a woman that is a clear opposite.

joyful said...

I got sucked into a far-left academe mindset during my undergrad years... but I never got duped into being a race-mule... thanks be to god.

It's really embarrassing that there need to be panels and discussions etc to decide if grown black women are free to do as they see fit and tend to their own needs. The very fact that this is up for debate shows just how enslaved most BW are, mentally, to this dead construct.

I briefly entertained the idea of studying African-American studies in grad school... but I took one look at the dept and I knew what I was in for. Picture after picture of smug-looking BM and WW who rubbed me the wrong way too. I can only imagine the stress of trying to bring a BWE perspective into a dept like that, and getting a committee of those indoctrinated "educated fools" (nod to Evia!) to approve a dissertation that I would write! No thank you.

This is getting long... sorry. Basically I think most black women would be well served to stay away from any hair splitting and ideological round table events... and do only what will directly uplift, enrich and protect themselves and their children. If enough of us do that, our collective lot will improve tremendously.

ak said...

'Speaking of black men and racism, I caught a glimpse of a young black man loudly talking about, 'The man' and 'They dont want us to progress etc etc', to another black man stall owner at a fruit market the other day. I dont know what made me smile more; the big, bold talk about whites and their racism or the white woman by his side with their mixed race baby in the buggy!


LOL Isn't that always the way?! LOL XD Who's gonna take a guy seriously after seeing and hearing that feces?

Anonymous said...

I was totally apalled at the statements made by these women and
I am not quite sure about the motivations of the biracial woman. It is kinda like these biracial women who are married to white men are used to being the only blacks (or half blacks) at the party and now more black women will be at the party and they dont like it. They feel threatened because they wont be the novelties to white men anymore. It scares people...the thought of white men with black women. White men hold a lot of importance to a lot minority women because they are the head of the food chain.

Out of Darkness said...

Hope your're getting lots of rest Halima!!!

Jenny said...

Anonymous- I'm not quite sure what problem you have with my comment. At any rate, I grew up more "white" than "black." My father's white, and my mother's black. (And black men seem to be the only people who have ever been disgusted by it.) And I'm not married. So it doesn't look like anything you said about biracial women really applies to me. I'm just honestly throwing in my observations about black male professors I had in the past.

Jenny said...

Repost since I think I misunderstood Anonymous' comment:

Anonymous- As a biracial woman, I'm in no way appalled by my black mother having married my white father. Sure, mixed and black women are in competition, but so are mixed and mixed, black and black, black and white, black and Asian, etc. If I were trying to prevent black women from "stealing" white men, why would I agree that these negative comments about black men are generally accurate?

The fact is that many black men - especially those in academia - think that they're entitled to black women's support while not caring a bit about black women's issues. As for mixed and white women, they feel entitled to have whomever they want as sex partners as reparations for whatever they think they've suffered at the hands of ligh-skinned blacks and whites.

What's my motive? I want black men to change. I want mixed, black, and white women to know that they don't have to put up with such terrible treatment by black men. That's all.

ValeriesWorld said...

Very interesting video, thanks very much. I find that it is very sad, that we are having this discussion, about what is the best from grown hard back women and it is such a tragedy of the countless years, a lot of women have wasted.

Black women have to listen to the Holy Spirit, not pastor, listen to what is good for them, not their mothers, brothers or Auntie Mimie.

From too long, we have been drones or worker bees and what have we got out of supporting the black community. We cannot wait for for anyones approval, we have to do what is best for us!

Anyone who says, what about the black man, tell them to seek Jesus. Blessings Ladies!

Anonymous said...

hmm, well I see these gate keeper-panelists have decided to close the gate, lock it and stand on guard keeping black women ‘inside’ by questioning the validity of even wanting a male legally committed partner…Well damn…I mean I don’t even know how I would have responded to these panelist had I of been there. I will say this to you ladies, there may be closed and locked gates-but there is NO FENCE! So walk right on around and keep skipping in that desired direction. I kept wondering what their motivation for their positions were other than to present themselves as having ‘intellectual thought’ or addressing questions they feel unheard AAwomen may have (are these sincere questions), and then towards the end I heard it loud and clear. ‘But if black women date out, then black men will be doomed for sure’! I’m not happy that they would try to trap black women ‘in’ in this way, however in reality there isn’t a bc (there is nothing supporting and protecting bw) so there is nothing to stay in.

Anonymous said...

As for mixed and white women, they feel entitled to have whomever they want as sex partners as reparations for whatever they think they've suffered at the hands of ligh-skinned blacks and whites.

What a bizarre comment. So now mixed raced women speak for white women? Exactly why I am nervous about having a mixed raced child. Secretly hates blacks and wanna be white but fully neither.

Anonymous said...

however in reality there isn’t a bc (there is nothing supporting and protecting bw) so there is nothing to stay in.

Amen to the other Anonymous. I think that it was when I watched this video that I realized how much I dont care what the "so called" black community thinks. Another thing, there is a controversy going on between some black women and Tyler Perry over Kim Kardashian. I am so tired of hearing about it. A segment of black women are upset about Kim being a part of his new movie. Who cares? It is his movie and he can put anyone in it that he chooses to. Well these complaining dummies actually made fools of themselves and Tyler Perry wrote a public letter to them. Why is it that black women dont realize that black men dont care about us and that complaining about Kim Kardashian is useless. All it did was peak interest and he is going to make even more money than he would have otherwise. I am so glad that I have detached myself from these issues and that I really dont care.

Amen to other Anonymous

Out of Darkness said...

I agree that some people can be very out of touch with the reality of black women. I was watching a video the other day of a black couple on the news, addressing RR Banks book. All they had to say was that marriage was for black people because they are married and how they felt IR dating was bad for the community. Still don't realize that when they are done from the interview they go home to cuddle next to each other and their poopooing of interracial options does nothing for black women who have no one.

@ Annonymous( not sqalymade)

Seriously........let it go. I found nothing wrong with that young lady's comment. I believe you are deeply suspicious and threatened by biracial people and its now beginning to manifest itself as hate and envy. Many of us on here come and give opinions as to what we believe other races of women do and why. its an interracial blog, its expected. if i say i believe asian women do such and such for such and such a reason doesn't mean i want to be an asian woman. esspecially if the comment did'nt even pose asian women in a positive am i possibly backing them up and hating black people.

Because you noticed the youngladies profile picture you instantly went on the defensive without even analyzing what she was saying. i'm sure if a pure black woman had said that you wouldn't have cared. i suggest you work out you issues before you have a biracial child, because being insecure and lashing out at others is not going to help.

ps. i have two black parents if your're wondering.

Anonymous said...


I have travelled extensively in Europe and have found that my dating pool just opened up. It happens in the cafes, the auditoriums and in school ( I went to teach). And found that I was able to freely date and marry (yes now married) without incident. Not all BW are interested in dating out. Because of that, the pool of available non-black men is sufficient. Good job Halima on the blog. BW have no right being held hostage.

Donna Morrone
Alsace, FR

joyful said...

When it comes to those BW who are themselves married out, but are trying to dissuade other BW from doing so, I think there are several factors at play.

1. They are trying to keep their Black Card. By attacking the use of IR marriage as a strategy for uplifting BW and black children, they can still be "down" and yet have the comfy upper middle class life in a safe suburb with their white/Asian/etc hubby.

2. They are trying to keep some of the less evolved BW out of the fold because these new to IRR women can cause some problems.

Frankly, I'm personally really embarrassed at the spate of interviews with BW who are just floored that a grown man might pay for their sandwich on a date! This eye popping wonderment and crowing about how a WM will treat them with the same BASIC, automatic, non-negotiable courtesy that other women get... it's NOT a good look. It's drawing a lot of bottom feeders to BW. It's like throwing a bucket of chum into shark infested waters, attracting the users and abusers of other races to come and prey on BW.

For those of us who have been dating out for a long time, we are accustomed to being treated much better than a BW who has been dating Deebo et al. To have to sort through a bunch of raggedy non-black men defeats the whole purpose of dating out.

Just being real.

Musicalle said...

....I listned to some of the Q&A sessions and the anti-marriage female panelist on the far right actually suggested that women get there emotional needs met form female friendships and basically have a series of hook-ups for sexual needs.
The lack of emotional intelligence and connection with reality inherent in that suggestion is stunning.
Even the other female( the biracial woman) had to disagree with this. lol

Musicalle said...

Goodness, apologies for the typos above- too anxious to reply, I guess.

Cassie said...

This post was hilarious. Yes indeed. The "man" is the enemy, but you're all up under his daughter.

And you're telling BW to stick with the Brothers. And sadly, too many BW are buying into the crap.