When I was growing up, we had occassion to sing the song, ‘Girls are made of sugar and spice and all things nice’. I remember that at some point in the song, I would have a small prick of conscience that it was all too unfair to boys, they being made of slugs and snakes and puppy dog tails.
But the overall feeling I always got from that ditty was that women where precious and to be ‘preserved’ and protected as a way of preserving the good in society.
Years later I read another book that again built another layer on my impression that a double standard favouring women as virtuous and due preservation was in operation in the wider community. The book’s name escapes me but it was about a poor author who makes a deal with the devil to get his book published. Anyway I must have been in my early teens when I read it so as you can imagine, I have little recollection of the whole book, but one particular passage stuck with me all these years. At a point in the book, the devil/satan, reveals himself and takes this author on a trip to hell. I remember that in all the horror that he saw and the people he knew in there, he kept saying that his highest fear was to see the loveliness of his mother there in hell!
Hell is not a place I would wish for my worst enemy, and I for sure wouldn’t want my father, mother, sister and brother to be in there, but this man was struck with terror that he would happen upon his mother there, he wasn’t too bothered about anyone else!
For a society that thinks in binary, it makes sense to anchor goodness with women. Yes there is something to be said for anchoring ‘goodness’ with women (and even though it has apparently become a burden that white women struggle to throw off, think about would have been their lot if there wasn’t this general view operating that women are good and sent down by God to grace the earth).
In Law and Order, the perp is assumed to be male until forensic science confirms otherwise and then there is the whole shock in the faces of the team that a woman 'could do such a thing'!
To protect women and lift them up as paragons of virtue and to be willing to step in to deflect any accusation of wrong doing. To save women and children and let men fend for themselves as in the Titanic, I believe these are the actions and activities of civilisations and cultures that are self-preserving and sensible.
Contrast it with what happens within the black community
Black folks want and demand that black women share blame 50/50 if not 80/20. This is such a standard protocol that in any discussion or discourse focussed on men, there must be the compulsory throwing in of ‘something to blame the women for,’ as if the analysis isn’t quite complete or is ‘off’ if somehow something is not blamed on black women (whatever we can drag in to fulfil that requirement). Every analysis of blame, have you noticed, finds its way back to 'single mothers' and cannot seem to imagine any step beyond that!
Other groups know the necessity of treating their womenfolk with sensitivity, great care and stepping in to deflect criticism from them, so they don’t crush their female psyches, their ability to be nurturing, kind, open and caring. Yes I do believe that this is done to preserve women as the caring, mothering, patient and kind part of humanity a role without which society would disintegrate. Do you think these folks don’t realize that women can be just as brutal and get up to mischief as the men? They do, but they have reasons to give women a benefit of doubt to safeguard them from anything that will harden their disposition and make them less of nurturers of society.
I believe one of the reasons why white society (read: white men) come down hard on men who mistreat women is because they don’t want women to become closed to them and to male advances in egenral. Indeed imagine a society where women are repeatedly and openly brutalized by men without any deterrent? Do you think those women would not become hardened towards and rejecting of men in general. It is only the BC that thinks men can target women with their hostility and harassment and yet women should somehow magically have the ability to shake it all of and suffer no loss of openness towards men, still giving them a benefit of a doubt over and over. It is only the BC that judges women *&&%chs for closing off to the men who victimize them repeatedly.
Most sensible cultures move to protect their women from full blame and full chastisement to prevent them from becoming bitter and developing a hardness to them (note I said sensible cultures). They realize that the emotional health of the community is tied to its women folk and their disposition, even the image of the community is protected when the image of its women is guarded. This, in addition to the fact that women have less agency is why there is a whole lot of rationalization when women get up to no good.
Think about it for a second. Many of us roll our eyes when white female criminals etc are cast as misguided or women who have fallen into the wrong crowd (their evil instincts have come from elsewhere). Conditions like ‘Stockholm’ syndrome are pulled in quickly to account for their activities (imagine black women being the test case for Stockholm syndrome, lol that one would be laughed out of court)
The ‘black community,’ wants black women to have the full barrel of untempered blame and criticism. They want black women to stand side by side black men and take a full barrel of blame and criticism even in clear cases when black women are doing more than their fair share and shouldering more responsbility. They the BC want women to take an equal lash with men. There is absolutely not even the slightest feeling that maybe or somehow black women should be spared the full brunt of it given that they are women...
Continued
Women are not supposed to get a full barage of criticism, they are not men!
Women are supposed to be treated more delicately than men. The fact that some folks are having a hard time with this idea shows the level of the problem in the so called Black community!
Indeed it is even more the case in the black community that black women should get no where near 30% of any criticism and blame since they, unlike other women are pitching in more than their fair share to keep the so called community going.
There used to be times when sense reigned, when people would say, 'Dont put too much on her she is a woman/female', and we all understood this to be the right and proper way to treat a female. These days folks are happy to lay on a disproportionate burden on black women, physical and otherwise and nothing tells them this is perverse.
One of the comments I have just receieved to this post from an anonymous comentor says that the expectation is that black women bear 50% of the blame. the commentor says this as if this is somehow right!
You see it is because the black community is in error state that it seems right to make women take on 50% of blame and responsbility. No other thriving and sensible community has this requirement. Essentially this commenter has proved my point. And she is not alone. The vast majority of black people even those who are in line with 'BWE' thinking actually feel in their emotions that women should share the blame 50 50 when the two parties are involved in the situation.
But you see, other sensible communtities realize that women have less agency than men in shaping the way things are or things turn out, and they take this into consideration when assigning blame and responsbility for any state of affairs.
Listen to any black person speak and you would think black women have more agency than black men in a sexist and partriachial society! Thats black logic for you!
I am here to correct that record and say that it is the perverse thinking in the black community that makes it seem that black women have more control and agency than black men in a racist sexist society to shape the current situation.
One clear example is that it is black men who have shaped the situation for violence in their communtities. Rape, DV, gang banging, Drugs etc are largely the result of the dirrect actions and efforts of black men, with the black woman left to contend with the resulting situation.
Black women are simply working with the hand they are dealt more so than black men in a society where sexism and racism are realities. DO NOT GET IT WRONG.
Many black women have deep down indoctrinated feelings that somehow they are responsbile for the way things turn out in the 'BC'. The BC has coached them well, thats why bw always respond readily to blame and responsibility. They have been bombareded with the message that something they have or have not done has created the situation they see around them. And unless black women shake off this sense of guilt, they will continue to jump to any charge of wrong doing and more responsibility to sort the situation out, despite having less agency in society because of the impact of racism and sexism.
There is also the sentiment that black women can somehow control black men's actions. Many folks are acting like we are still in the situation where black women can ask black men to be accountable and it will be so. But let me point out to you that the conditions under which black women could demand one thing or the other, no longer exists. The situation as it stands is being misintepreted as 'bw failure to demand certain standards and accountability and etc from black men', when the reality is that it has long since moved to being one of black women having no ways of enforcing right action in black men.
This is because black men are acting outside the structures of community and there are therefore no ways to enforce 'good behaviour', so to say.
Black women do not have any holds and leverages over black men, thanks to a community that has progressively destroyed this ability by coddling and spoiling a generation of men who are a law unto themselves, who do as they please and can no longer be appealed to by authority, community obligation, the black church, morality and what have you.
I hear someone say, 'Black women should just stop being with these men' or 'women witholding sex can tame men'. Well first and formost, black women are not allowed to have an alternative to black men to make this an approach that can be enforceable and thus a realistic one, in additon and as Evia has explained in one of her recent posts, black women have never been socialized to reject any black man be they a drug pusher, pimp, ex-con etc despite all that 'talk' about how black women should leave thugs and bad boys alone. You will find abundant black norms and injunctions that instruct tacitly or otherwise, black women to keep dealing with these men despite the contrary talk and cries of 'she should have not been with him', when things go badly wrong. Indeed, the whole ideology of black men being 'our brothers' is one of the strong overarching philosophies existing in the black though system that pushes the notion that black women find a way to keep dealing with these men!
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35 comments:
"Indeed imagine a society where women are repeatedly and openly brutalized by men without any deterrent? Do you think those women would not become hardened towards and rejecting of men in general. It is only the BC that thinks men can target women with their hostility and harassment and yet women should somehow magically have the ability to shake it all of and suffer no loss of openness towards men, still giving them a benefit of a doubt over and over. It is only the BC that judges women *&&%chs for closing off to the men who victimize them repeatedly."
I am guilty of that, for a long time I tried not to speak or communicate with black men unless it was a family member while I lived in a black neighborhood because I got tired of being looked at too hard if I dressed feminine or had men yelling out nasty things to me when I got off the bus or walked through my apt complex. I got a reputation for being aloof and stuck up but I had a strict mother so men didn't bother me too much. As I grew up I have had men throw stuff at me to get my attention, make silly noises instead of speaking, get into my face when I was reading or looking at a magazine, block my way physically cuz they wanted to hollar at me etc...now that I live in a mostly white neighborhood that does not happen at all. It does affect the way you look at black men who expect you to appreciate their being so aggressive. When you don't then something is wrong with you. It pains me to hear young black girls saying they don't like white boys because they don't have flavor like black boys. I just shake my head.
"Indeed imagine a society where women are repeatedly and openly brutalized by men without any deterrent?"
Sounds like the Congo, where women are brutalized on a daily basis.
Good post.
Halima,
Wow! You've been on fire for the past few months! {deep martial arts bow} Whenever I read something like this post that contrasts what NORMAL human cultures do, versus what the so-called bc is doing...it's breathtaking to see how far away from human norms we've gotten.
You said, "Black folks want and demand that black women share blame 50/50 if not 80/20. This is such a standard protocol that in any discussion or discourse focussed on men, there must be the compulsory throwing in of ‘something to blame the women for,’ as if the analysis isn’t quite complete or is ‘off’ if somehow something is not blamed on black women (whatever we can drag in to fulfil that requirement)."
Yes, indeed. This is crazy thinking, and it serves to obscure what is really going on within the now-dead bc. [Which I guess is the point.]
You said, "Every analysis of blame, have you noticed, finds its way back to 'single mothers' and cannot seem to imagine any step beyond that!"
Yes. And whenever anybody goes the extra step to advise BW to exclude from their dating pool the men who are most likely to help place BW in that single mother predicament by only being willing to function as sperm donors/baby daddies (as opposed to husbands and fathers)---
---namely, fatherless, promiscuous, marriage-averse, AA males (and Caribbean-origin BM in the UK)---
---then Black folks scream and howl.
It's all crazy. And crazy-making for those BW who take bc dogma to heart.
Peace, blessings and solidarity.
I often wonder where all this came from. i'm an 80's baby so i don't know if the blaming of bw has been going on since then. But i remember when bm blamed wm for everything! and now they are blaming us! I wonder if anyone outside of the BC notices this tread and now don't give bleep about what bm think or say about anyone.
I live in a black/mixed neighborhood, but it's not as bad as what you ladies are saying. Maybe its becuz i drive a car so don't i have to deal w/ that type of harassment.
However i had a few instances where bm would try to "holla" at me and i would compeletly ignore them. One even phone stalked me (blowing my phone) after 1 date. even after i told him plainly i was no longer interested(you'd think he'd get the hint after a week of not answering his phone calls).
I believe a lot bm lack social skills (duh! i know) or they believe the hype on BET that all you have to do is walk up to a woman.
I also think they have this mentality that we'll accept anything from them....you know since "we're 70% single and only bm find us attractive *eye roll*"
They seriously don't know how to approach a woman, becuz they've been told the holla at ya! is the cool way to do it. Now they realize we're not accepting that anymore (i never have), so they get fustrated and lash out.
In all seriousness they need to grow up and start blaming themselves.
Healthy normal cultures realize that women "civilize" men.
Men who are emotionally unattached and have no responsibility for their families (wives and children), communities or tribes are the most dangerous men on the planet. Normal cultures know this.
Halima, what you have expressed in this post continues to confirm the reality that only weak men will shift blame and responsibility to the women. I did not say "their women", because these types of weak men are not willing to be responsible to their women by making them their wives and being fathers to their children.
Sensible women need to move on...
Excellent post!Here's some visible proof of what you're saying @"Black folks want and demand that black women share blame 50/50 if not 80/20."
There was a scandal that happened a while back between Al Sharpton and his exwife Kathy here's what Sharpton said to the people reporting on the scandal."On the eve of the publication of this story, The Village Voice received an extraordinary letter signed by the two attorneys most closely associated with Reverend Al Sharpton, Michael Hardy and Sanford Rubenstein. Promising "to pursue all legal remedies" if the story appeared, the letter spelled out what it said was "a false allegation" involving Sharpton's wife of 23 years, Kathy Sharpton, noting that the Voice had "been informed" of this allegation by "several individuals." Then it warned that publishing "any story which talks about false allegations of Rev. Sharpton and not false allegations regarding Ms. Sharpton would demonstrate your actionable malice towards Rev. Sharpton"
The article goes on to say,
In an effort to protect himself from the scandal detailed here, Al Sharpton is apparently willing to use his wife as a shield, even if it means making her a target. He has had his highs in this city—his organization of the Diallo protests in Giuliani time, for example—but now, at this moment of his greatest national prominence, he has sunk to a new low.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2004-11-30/news/on-a-new-high-sharpton-hits-a-new-low/
Tp
I have never really noticed black women being made to shoulder the same responsibility as black men. White men, in my opinion don't seem more valiant than black men.
My response really doesn't have much to do with this post but I just need to vent.
I am all for Interracial dating, I am a black women who hopes to fall in love with a good man some day be he black or white or whatever. I just find it odd that lately it seems that the only way we can endorse dating outside of our race or introducing black women to the idea of interracial dating is by beating the hell out of black men.
I am all for honesty, I have no problem with reading or hearing about the stats on the state of the black man today and I understand that it is hard to find a black man nowadays because we so outnumber them etc...but I just feel so insulted for so many good black men, which there are plenty of but with the way the news and the blogosphere talks you wouldn't know it. I would love for just one blog or one news report to say "Just date who you are attracted to. Physically and emotionally at the time. Don't judge any one group, don't beat anyone until they can't stand. just follow your heart and love everyone." Maybe I will start that blog....
I have never really noticed black women being made to shoulder the same responsibility as black men. White men, in my opinion don't seem more valiant than black men.
My response really doesn't have much to do with this post but I just need to vent.
I am all for Interracial dating, I am a black women who hopes to fall in love with a good man some day be he black or white or whatever. I just find it odd that lately it seems that the only way we can endorse dating outside of our race or introducing black women to the idea of interracial dating is by beating the hell out of black men.
I am all for honesty, I have no problem with reading or hearing about the stats on the state of the black man today and I understand that it is hard to find a black man nowadays because we so outnumber them etc...but I just feel so insulted for so many good black men, which there are plenty of but with the way the news and the blogosphere talks you wouldn't know it.
I know so many good black men that stand up for us and fight for us and they deserve their fair due. White men do not hold the exclusive on being valiant. I'm not saying it's this sites job to praise black men (that is clearly not your purpose on this blog) I get it. I guess I just posted it here because this is the blog I was reading when the feeling hit me.
I would love for just one blog or one news report to say "Just date who you are attracted to. Physically and emotionally at the time. Don't judge any one group, don't beat anyone until they can't stand. just follow your heart and love everyone." Maybe I will start that blog....
How is anyone beating up on black men here?
The way I understand it is yelling ouch! or crying foul when someone has done something negative to you does NOT make you the criminal in the situation.
I think this post is very relevant to bw-IR because there are scores of black women who don't see that there are some significant issues with the overwhelming majority of black men,yes even the one's in their and my families, that is going unchecked and is a huge factor why they wont find a quality aa mate.There are 2 million more black women than black men in america you can't marry what isn't there.
As far as this whole argument that black women appear to make white and other men a second choice, as has been said a trillion times it is only because of indoctrination.Most black women want to be in a loving happy and healthy marriage, just that in it self shows that black men are not necessarily their first pick.Especially if you consider the scores of black women who are perpetually single and are NOT willing to marry just any old black man.Some of them are choosing all on their own to die alone rather than be with a squatter.That's not someone who prefers black men that type woman is someone who prefers quality but because of racist indoctrinations her whole life and being told she's not good enough for black men,except to be used,let alone white men has settled for living alone.
I can think of certain muslims,mormons,jews,christians that were raised indoctrinated with some very dysfunctional
anti-them views.These people stuck to their beliefs for years despite the fact that their groups belief was meant to cause them harm or some sort of oppression.Some of these people even went to court to fight for their right to be oppressed and exploited by the members in their group but one day those people WOKE UP!Now they no longer hold beliefs and participate in things meant to cause them harm and keep them down.
Many of these people have been applauded for their courage to change their self destructive
beliefs and get out of dysfunctional anti-them environments and their ability to persuade others to get out also.
WHERE IS OUR APPLAUSE?!
Tp
I don't blog about black men, because frankly, I can't think of anything useful to say about 'em. I don't know any - as friends or acquaintances - outside of my family.
However, coming to someone's blog to complain about what the author freely chooses to discuss is the height of ignorance and arrogance. BW living in mostly black areas, will come across knuckleheads, morons, and jerks who feel free to brutalize, verbally, and physically assault her.
There have been enough testimonies on these blogs going back over the years. Anyone can read the news and check the stats: bw are under assault. It isn't white men or other races of men doing it.
Clucking over a few words that don't praise a couple of "good" negroes - so what? If they are real men, they can handle the truth about "bad" black males.
I may come up with a "Top 20 - Why Black Men Suck" list. That way some folks will understand what real bashing looks like.
{Anon:I am all for Interracial dating, I am a black women who hopes to fall in love with a good man some day be he black or white or whatever. I just find it odd that lately it seems that the only way we can endorse dating outside of our race or introducing black women to the idea of interracial dating is by beating the hell out of black men.)
I guess you have missed the blogs and youtube videos devoted to slamming balck women and explaining why black men do not choose black women for mates or why bm choose to go abroad and engage in risky sex behaviour because bw aren't pampering bm all day like they want. Nobody is telling you to hate bm just that there are not enough of them to go around and the ones not dating ir are usually going to put you through changes because they think bw do not have a choice in dating others.
Anonymous said:
"I am all for honesty"
"I have never really noticed black women being made to shoulder the same responsibility as black men."
"I just feel so insulted for so many good black men, which there are plenty of"
"I know so many good black men that stand up for us and fight for us"
_____________________________________
Really now? Where are you seeing these "many good Black men" who are standing up and fighting for us? Are you truly being honest right now? It sounds like your love for Black men has blinded you to the truth.
Your comments seem harmless enough at first. You are correct that it is unnecessary to bash Black men in order to encourage IR dating in Black women. That is one issue.
However, it is another thing to repeat falsehoods about the true relationship between BM and BW today. Falsehoods such as "there are SO MANY good Black men" and "they are fighting for us" may actually keep BW from waking up and smelling the coffee. It may keep them in that eternal, futile search for their "Black prince" while their chances for marriage and family life grow slimmer each day. It may keep them from seeing how dire their situation really is.
So "bashing" isn't necessary, but truth telling is, to untangle the web of deceit BW are ensnared in.
I love many attributes of Black men, but I also understand the many rifts that exists between Black men and Black women.
I agree with your post btw. Recently, on another African American/black themed blog I visit, there was a discussion surrounding the public attack/physical violation of a black woman, which had been in the news. Many on this blog were stressing the injustice, while some claimed they needed more info on why this women was treated so by the police.
However, there quite a few, who I supposed were black men as they claimed, who laughed and chortled about it. As there was a video of this women being beaten, they agreed that 'she had asked for it', and a few commented, "good, now you Black women can get what we've been getting too". I know that anytime there is a story on a black male meeting an attack by the police, I am always distressed, and seeking to learn what happened, and lend my support in online discussions.
Needless to say, I was very disappointed at these responses, but, realized that these 'men', as you outlined,want black women to share both the 'blame' and the pain equally with them, if not more. As if we already have'nt. Unbelievable.
There is almost no white neighborhood where women of any color get verbally harrassed, day and night while on the sidewalk.
,
There is almost no black neighborhood that is free from this unrelenting, insidious, soul-sapping harrassment aimed at black women (and black teen girls, and yes, even pre-teen black girls).
Show me a white neighborhood, or an Asian neighborhood, or a Hispanic neighborhood, where black women are physically assaulted and/or robbed with regularity.
Show me just one!
Because I can show you plenty of black neighborhoods where this happens...
Thank you for breaking it down like that Necee.
MOST DANGEROUS CITIES 2009
http://www.walletpop.com/insurance/dangerous-cities
Most of these cities listed have black majorities and it's fatherless damaged black males committing the majority of the crimes.
Against each other and innocent black women, children, and the elderly.
There's also a link at this site that shows the safest states in the country.
It's no coincidence that the safest states have a low percentage of DBRBM.
Thank you Halima for bringing the truth to light.
"I have never really noticed black women being made to shoulder the same responsibility as black men."
***********************************
Hmmmmmmmm.......REALLY?
Then you're fortunate in your personal life and so must the women around you.
I personally think you're a man or very bm-identified. Sites like this just don't pop out from a vacuum. It's usually a response to some negative issue going on that needs to be addressed and corrected.
So please, whether you're a man or woman stop kidding yourself about the downward spiral of a good portion of black men as individuals and a group.
Anonymous:
I am all for honesty, I have no problem with reading or hearing about the stats on the state of the black man today and I understand that it is hard to find a black man nowadays because we so outnumber them etc...but I just feel so insulted for so many good black men,
You may as well save your breath Anonymous and stop wasting your time. Because when any black men, be they affluent and eligible or broke and non-eligible, decide to date or marry ww, hw, or aw they don't care who's 'insulting' them or why. They're too busy living their lives and having their fun! They don't look back at black women to apologize, explain, or say that 'they'll be back later'. LOL LOL The black men will do them and I notice that some of them will publicly and openly read off a list of why they don't want black women.
So please spare us your feelings. No one else cares, and I mean no one.
Anonymous:
I have never really noticed black women being made to shoulder the same responsibility as black men. White men, in my opinion don't seem more valiant than black men.
Are you from Japan? How have you not noticed this? Even that book from many decades ago from Zora Neale Hurston called Their Eyes Were Watching God said 'a Black woman is the mule of the world'.
Some wm WILL be valiant, not all and the ones who are seem to be way more visible and less ashamed to be openly valiant than the very visible bm who don't want to act that way.
Anonymous:
I know that anytime there is a story on a black male meeting an attack by the police, I am always distressed, and seeking to learn what happened, and lend my support in online discussions.
Ha. For me, those days are over. The DBR bm who can't protect, care for, and respect the women and children living in their community will not get my support when it comes to standing up for them and their 'fracas' between the cops. Most of the time the DBR was acting like a fool and has a long rap sheet anyway. I can't be distressed over those who have so little respect for me.
Anonymous:
Needless to say, I was very disappointed at these responses, but, realized that these 'men', as you outlined,want black women to share both the 'blame' and the pain equally with them, if not more. As if we already have'nt. Unbelievable.
I understand what you're saying perfectly. BUT then black people on a whole cannot blame bw when they start calling bw 'emasculating' or 'unfeminine'.
Being a mule, or taking over all the men's responsibilities does NOT look womanly nor delicate!
So which is it gonna be? Should bw act like a man and take over all of the men's jobs or should bw act more feminine and delicate and leave most of the accountability and responsibility to somebody else?
Necee:
There is almost no black neighborhood that is free from this unrelenting, insidious, soul-sapping harrassment aimed at black women (and black teen girls, and yes, even pre-teen black girls).
Huh! Yes I remember those days when I was growing up in Florida. As soon as it looked like you were growing some breasts, they just started up! I grww up in the suburbs but when to school in the city but anywhere around any black neighborhoods if my Mom happened to shop around there, the DBRs would just start acting up. They had no shame.
"Listen to any black person speak and you would think black women have more agency than black men in a sexist and partriachial society! Thats black logic for you."
the sad thing is, this statement reflects black philosophy 101. from africa, to the caribean to america, many black people simply believe that bw are troublesome, cunning, selfish and sometimes downright evil. you can see this thought pattern in many black movies from africa to here, the women are always to blame for everything and 'surprisingly' enough, the men are always protrayed as being innocent, especially in African movies.. It’s so weird. we as a people are so warped. I just feel like the easiest way to escape all this nonsense is to marry out.
True, the white man has conquered black people, but I believe this was not without the help of black men and their extreme selfishness and self absorbness. Indian, asian and other men are working so hard to have and maintain prosperity in their countries. Black men other the other hand are destroying whatever country they’re in charge of. Look at Africa, Africa would not be like it is if it was run by whites, or Indians or Asians. It’s sad but true.
Sometimes I wonder if bm are simply inherently inferior to other men cause if it not arab men, then it’s white men or even asian men; they’re always serving other men. As a black woman, you have to decide whether you want to continue being burdened as the women of such lowly men or simply ‘move on up’ and marry more affluent men. It’s that simply. That is our option as women.
{The situation as it stands is being misintepreted as 'bw failure to demand certain standards and accountability and etc from black men', when the reality is that it has long since moved to being one of black women having no ways of enforcing right action in black men.
This is because black men are acting outside the structures of community and there are therefore no ways to enforce 'good behaviour', so to say.
Black women do not have any holds and leverages over black men, thanks to a community that has progressively destroyed this ability by coddling and spoiling a generation of men who are a law unto themselves, who do as they please and can no longer be appealed to by authority, community obligation, the black church, morality and what have you.}
Thank you for pointing this out especially since on all those ignorant videos and blogs the first thing out of bm's mouths are "bw should choose better or not date thugs" these same men however get mad when you do choose better (non bm)or when bw state that they want educated bm they are told to lower their expectations while all along being told to choose better. Bm are not capable of making this decision for us. Bw need to move forward and stop listening to the so called bc that is keeping you sick, bound and gagged.
Notice how quick bm blame bw for having out of wedlock babies then quickly get mad about the rumored high abortion rate for bw. It's okay for bm to date attractive, skinny, light eyed and long haired women but I have to lower my standards and date dark skinned, fat, jheri curl having, gold tooth brothers cuz I as a bw cannot be picky even if he is picking me up in his mama's car with her driving (lol)They can be nerdy and smart hence a good brother but I cannot be too plain, nerdy or bookish. Bm can date unemployed white women because they see them as feminine,cooperative partners and I am seen as a competitive bitch because I was a manager when he met me. On the other hand I am told that white men only want me for sex and will not marry me when I ask about the bm who have dated me and not committed to me i am told the usual excuses I was fat, loud, mean etc...
If I have my own car, house and good job I am looked at with contempt because bm know that I will not put up with all the bs on the other hand if I am struggling and need a hand I am just another gold digger.
"...black women are not allowed to have an alternative to black men to make this an approach that can be enforceable..."
This just SO true. I have seen it over and over. Black women, even highly educated, professionally successful ones are supposed to give Tyrone the burger flipper a chance. Meanwhile, I never EVER see black men of means chase a black woman with a minimum wage type job. Black women need to start questioning who benefits from these paradigms and who gets screwed over again and again. I have been called "snobby" "aloof" and "actin' white"all my life. I know young women who bought into the indoctrination and are now struggling babymamas. Are they hailed in the black community for all they endure? Nope? They are called out of their names again and again, left to struggle daily for basic needs, even though all they did was follow the abc party line, by helpingabrotherout.
"And whenever anybody goes the extra step to advise BW to exclude from their dating pool the men who are most likely to help place BW in that single mother predicament..."
Yes, we need to begin pointing out to young black girls the pattern because everyone outside the bc can see it clear as day.
I would like to recommend a book I just finished "Misogyny" by Jack Holland. It is an interesting analysis of the subject.The whole "protection of womanhood" thing comes at a price. It always has and it always will. It is the intermix to the TWO systems of devaluation (racism and misogyny) that women of color are dealing with that makes this meme of the existence of a true "black community" soo painful. Black men have become white supermacists. That's the problem. Black men have bought into the white supermacist creed to varying degrees but they have bought into it nonetheless. Nowadays they(black men) are far less threatened by it than before ...if at all( access to white women, money, power, all western trappings... etc)......Now THEY depise the most depised...the lowest on the totem pole...black women.
Now before anyone starts romanticizing about Afircans before western influence,
let's be honest. In all African countries misogyny can clearly be seen in various forms today ..genital mutilation..etc.
The sad thing is black women used to take care of each other and each other's children. Now the competition for and eagerness to please black men has disabled that tight knit and formidable alliance.Only black men profited from that.
The sisterhood has dissolved.
We need to reform those alliances.
Trust each other more and be trustworthy.
Train black women to see their worth in another black women eyes..not just in the eyes of men who have other motives.
Train our young women to look in the mirror and love what they see..then the battle will be won.
Notice how quick bm blame bw for having out of wedlock babies then quickly get mad about the rumored high abortion rate for bw. It's okay for bm to date attractive, skinny, light eyed and long haired women but I have to lower my standards and date dark skinned, fat, jheri curl having, gold tooth brothers cuz I as a bw cannot be picky even if he is picking me up in his mama's car with her driving (lol)They can be nerdy and smart hence a good brother but I cannot be too plain, nerdy or bookish.
BellyDancer
You nailed it! I was watching some of the single bw debate online w/ steve harvey and them, and Hill Harper kept harping on "potential". You have no idea how much i wanted to slap him. If you are 35 yr old man still talking about potential, something is terribly wrong with you. Potential (as someone put it) is for high schoolers. The End.
My father refused to get married and have kids until he was READY! not when he had POTENTIAL. That's ridiculous! Once my father had himself straight he then went to look for a wife, that would be my mother. He knew that he needed to be finanically set before he could enter anyone in his life. My father too me is an example of what a man is and what a MARRIAGE MINDED MAN looks like.
Hill Harper had the nerve to use the example of Barack and Michelle as a potential man. Thank goodness Sherri set him straight,because Barack wasn't some dude walking into a law office and met Michelle. he was already doing things that showed Michelle that he was the man she was looking for. Not some potential man-boy.
Skypurple: Velour has a website where she addressed the very same subject in a thread about so called potential "Raising a Husband"
http://interracialblackwomen.blogspot.com/2010/03/raising-husband.html
Why do black men keep using the Obamas like Barack was just some thug off the E train. The man was damn near through law school when they met yes he showed potential and had figured out what he wanted to do with his life unlike some bm who keep making plans but do not know how to follow through on them.
Who has time to wait for a man to decide if he wants to be with you all the while he keeps trying to make you stay by talking about his potential.
Also check out Von's blog Black Conscious Thought and her post:
Black Men: "Black Women You Are Black First & Women Second"
Von breaks it down and makes a lot of folks mad too (lol) when she talks about bm not giving a damn about race when it comes to them wanting what they want, money, political clout, prestige and ass of all colors yeah I said it well Von said it first (lol) but bm will stop at nothing to ensure race loyalty over bw having gender loyalty.
While at first blaming the white man got him sympathy bm now whole heartedly blame the bw because after all she somehow prospered under all the oppression and the bm can't so she should take his abuse at all costs after all it is for the race, well the black one that is because everybody else seems to be doing just fine without all the bull....
Black men fear empowered women plain and simple. Black men have high value because bw keep him on high but yet what is he really doing for you to be on high.
As soon as bw start to place themselves on high then there are problems look at Oprah, bm cannot stand this woman and most black folks stop watching her a long time ago but we know you can't butter your bread with black folks and I am sure O knew this too so she played a different game, a 2billion dollar game (her worth) that has netted her a very luxurious life and I ain't hating on O but some of the foulest things I have heard about her come from black folks mouths. This black woman excelled in the white man's arena and yet none of these negroes can't tip their hat even some bw hate on her going on about "why she ain't married" "is she gay" "why she spend her money in africa" " do she need so many houses""why gale hang with her so much" one dbr bm had the nerve to say she wasn't a role model cuz she was single WTF! Oprah does not need a man at this point cuz he will probably try to spend up her money, move his other babymama kids in, tear up her shit and just generally act out with jealousy which is probably the real reson why her and Stedman did not marry, he felt intimidated by her oh well next->
Hey Bellydancer i read both blogs. Hands down Von hand it down pat. I think she's started to realize what's going on. When you look back at her post they reflect nothing that she's saying today. Believe me more and more bw are waking the hell up! hence why so many are in college and doing well for themselves!
I don't have time for a potential man. Since i started dating outside my race I've met men who already got things going and want to do more. That shows me that he is all man and is preparing himself for the future. So Harper and Harvey can take that potential bulsh*t somewhere else...o and the ladies in the audience was NOT buying it.
Instead of telling women to lower their standards, bm need to start having high standards for themselves. The pity pary ended November 4, 2008.
Skypurple15: If you are 35 yr old man still talking about potential, something is terribly wrong with you. Potential (as someone put it) is for high schoolers. The End.
Amen and just plain WORD. Not in the business of raising (allegedly) grown arsed men! To drive the point home, I gotta spend the next five years recovering from a regressive male I allowed to knock me up! **that** I'll admit and own up to; otherwise, pfft.
I don't know about the Anonymous* commenter who said we're expected to take the blame, but unless I'm an accomplice to a crime some fool committed (not how I roll, but hear me out) I refuse to own that! *where have YOU been?! I witness the "mule plowing" outside my front door daily! You didn't get the memo about this Ghettocalypse(tm) we've been speaking about?
Sky I read some of Von's old post also and every woman has to come to her own truth in this matter and at least she is aware of the hypocrisy that goes on with bm. I was surprised to read that about Shirley Chisholm's presidential run and the nasty little remarks made about such an accomplished woman by her own men. They had the nerve to support her opponent George McGovern.
{At the 1972 Democratic National Convention, as a symbolic gesture, McGovern opponent Hubert H. Humphrey released his black delegates to Chisholm, giving her a total of 152 first-ballot votes for the nomination} Even a racist white man gave her more support then her own.
{Chisholm created controversy when she visited rival and ideological opposite George Wallace in the hospital soon after his shooting in May 1972, during the 1972 presidential primary campaign. Several years later, when Chisholm worked on a bill to give domestic workers the right to a minimum wage, Wallace helped gain votes of enough Southern congressmen to push the legislation through the House.}
Shirley was an actual founding member of the Congressional Black Congress.
This is why black women have to ally themselves with others outside our comfort zones. Bm have convinced us we have no other allies but them and they are not even good allies and use this tactic to lock us down and keep us immobile.
Jacque:
In every country misogyny can be clearly seen today. FGM is not practiced throughout the entire African continent, and it is also practiced outside of Africa in various forms. I don't understand why some of you think in order to be totally open to white men you have to believe in the superiority of European/white culture. The former is quite possible without the latter.
As someone with feminist leanings I have to say I'm conflicted about this post. Not opposed, but conflicted.
Black women are not safe in their own neighborhoods anymore.
Black man uses a pitbull to attack his black ex girlfriend while his new white girlfriend also fights her. SMH
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/23280648/detail.html
Dear Anon,
I do not believe in SUPERIORITY OF ANY CULTURE. I don't remember giving European culture a superiority boost in my post...No need for conflict. There are MANY African cultures and traditions some good some bad....as all the other cultures of the world..FGM is also practised in the middle east and the Asian subcontinent. However EVERY culture on earth has its own manifestation(s) of misogyny. This is true regardless of the positions women hold in their society. That was the point of the post.
When you are doing battle you need to know who and what your REAL enemy is to fight effectively..
The point also is about black women FINALLY waking up and to realize that everyone of color is NOT OUR ALLY regardless of culture or origin.
Actions are what truly counts. Let the brothas and their ilk pay lip service forever...just don't buy it. I'ts hype..falsehood...lacking in action and substance.
All black women who love and value themselves first of all will not bother with anyone who treats them with no dignity or no respect.
I have a 13 year old daughter. I looked her in her beautiful eyes and said....very clearly..
"Never love a man more than you love yourself."
"Always make your own money."
"Think for yourself"
"Make your own mistakes..then learn from them."
" Being pretty/beautiful means nothing if your uneducated, stupid and/or just plain dumb and needy.
I meant all of it with every fiber of my being.
She has seen me live by this and take criticism from family...but I'm happy.
There are too many pitiful men of all walks of life and colors to be bothered with drama.
Black women are rife with drama all for the sake of "community uplift."
Well we need to do what the men have done all along ...uplift ourselves.
Thank you Bellydancer on that info about Shirley C. That was a savvy move on her part - talk about strategy.
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