Monday, January 18, 2010

90% of Married bm marry bw YET only 30% of us are Married! Who’s fooling who here?

Only about 30 percent of black women are living with a spouse, according to the Census Bureau, compared with about 49 percent of Hispanic women, 55 percent of non-Hispanic white women and more than 60 percent of Asian women."

I think I need to do some work clarifying all the stats that have been flying around lately. BW we cannot afford to be put back to sleep over the idea of opening up to a diversity of men and not packing our eggs in one basket! Those who want to derail us or get us to suspend action are now using a variety of tricks to either get us into believing that things are not as dire around the marriage situation in the black community, or get us to feeling we have been running with the wrong picture.

First of all they deny the authenticity of the statistics compiled around marriage and relationships in our community. They question the method of its collection, they point out this and that issue as meaning the stats are unreliable. But you must keep in mind that the same conditions and standards used to arrive at the picture for us bw, was used across all races of women. Just recently someone in a bid to discredit the stats of 70% singleness among black women, argued that it was ridiculous to include 16 year olds as ‘of marriageable age’ and so this makes the conclusions questionable.

On the face of it, it might seem like they have a point, and it is ridiculous for those doing the study to include a group of women as young as 16 years, because who wants to marry at 16 right? But the truth is that the statisticians did not single out black women. They applied 16 as marriageable age to every race; to Asian, white and Latina. Note that if bw had had a slow uptake and decided that 29 was a better age for marriage, this would still reflect in the study and the surge at any particular age would bump up the overall numbers for bw, but there is no such surge. Bw’s rate of marriage doesn’t suddenly jump to an all time high at some specific age, their marriage rates continue to be the lowest across all ages. So the point is moot.

Another trick the ‘high rate of black female singleness-apologists’ come up with is saying 90% of bm marry bw. Wow wee! Wonderful! And that gives us what, 90% of bw married right? Wrong!

Don’t be fooled, 90% might seem like a promising large number, but when you look at the reality of the 90%, they are just saying 90% of the few black men who think marriage is important. Say a million bm decide that marriage is for them, then that means 900,000 of them are married to bw, but that doesn’t in anyway make bw situation any better, particularly if 4 million bw are desiring to get married!

If I tell you that I give 90% of my spare time to charity, you would say, “That’s wonderful”. But if I qualify that ‘spare time’ by saying that it is actually only 1 hour on Monday mornings, you will realise that I don’t necessarily give that much time to charity after all. This same principle applies with the 90% of bm marry bw they keep quoting. Don’t take your eyes off the bottom line here, and that is that less than 30% of bw end up married as a result of this 90% of bm. Yep I said less than 30 (it keeps dropping doesn’t it?), because as Evia rightly pointed out, we have to account for the fact that in that 30% of married bw, some are married to white men and latinos etc!

As my maths teacher would say, “Always define your boundaries”. Don’t let anyone play on your intelligence and distort your growing understanding of the situation as it stands. It is not a pretty sight in the black community and it is not set to get any better because we have allowed the problem to reach unprecedented levels. At this point all bw can do is save themselves individually by grabbing hold of their wider dating options with two hands! Any in-house salvation (if this will ever be possible) will come long after most of you in child bearing age would have passed it, so do yourself a big favour and seriously prospect your out-of-race options!

Indeed what does this 90% of married bm marry bw statistic suggest to us, is it that bw are no longer interested in marriage, they are too independent maybe? I am unconvinced that bw do not want commitment from men and even those who are put off by disappointing behaviour in men would have a rethink if they found men who didn’t disappoint. The statistics suggests a number of key things. An abysmal number of bm are at present interested in getting married. Marriage-resistant bm are at an all time high in the black community leaving a significant section of bw no choice but to look outwards. Anti-marriage attitudes are also very self-sustaining in the community particularly towards bw due to racio-misogynic reinforcement. The situation is further complicated by the surplus of bw available to bm. Bw cannot hope to change such unfavourable in-house odds facing us as a whole (even a million women's march wouldnt begin to redress the problem) which would require a culture shift and a few generations to begin to change.

In conclussion, it is fascinating to note that white men could potentially marry more bw than bm seem willing to take to the altar!

281 comments:

1 – 200 of 281   Newer›   Newest»
foreverloyal said...

This is a good point. If the stats are true, and we have so far no reason to think that they are not, then there is a huge problem.
A problem that will not be fixed overnight, and one that certainly won't be solved by inaction.

The Princess said...

Are there any stats out there for Black women in cohabitating relationships?

I'd be interested to know how many Black women are without a man, compared to those who live with their mates unmarried.

I agree with the previous poster that this is a problem.

However, I am not surprised. Many young Black people are recreating what they saw growing up.

Dysfunction breeds dysfunction! (With some exceptions)

Marriage doesn't seem to be a frontline priority anymore. It has become acceptable for us to have numerous 'babymamas' and 'babydaddies' instead. Look at the stats of unwed Black mothers.

Sorry if I'm rambling!

Anonymous said...

Marriage is for white people

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/25/AR2006032500029.html

Anonymous said...

I'd be interested to know how many Black women are without a man, compared to those who live with their mates unmarried.

Also, how many of the 70% of black women are divorced? With 40-50% of marriages ending in divorce then this 70% statistic doesn't surprise me.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad you're posting about this, Halima.

The comments others have raised should give us time to stop and think about how these phenomena developed.

Those of us who are in the 40 and under age group, grew up in the midst of great societal upheaval wrought by our elders. Not only had they begun a sexual revolution, where sex became divorced from marriage and parenting, but they were part of the divorce revolution.

They were the ones who began divorcing in greater numbers once no-fault divorce became available. Before, one had to divorce and prove some reason for seeking the divorce.

Once people began divorcing, serial monogamy became a norm. Thus, think of how many of us grew up with divorced parents, where we never knew who mommy or daddy would be with next? It certainly breeded cynicism: daddy's gone, mommy and daddy have moved on to be with new people.

Don't forget too, the rise of the playa who can take advantage of disproportionate numbers of bw to bm: they don't have to marry, or if they are partnered and married, they have women on the side.

On the other hand, those of us who grew up in conservative family environments, ie., like my parents, a bm and bw, married for 41 years, we are part of the group that has not become cynical about marriage. We believe in it as a social institution.

But what I found as I grew up, is that it was impossible to meet bm as I got to be of college age and beyond. Many high-achieving bw go to school and work in environments where there are not many bm.

The issue for me was not why there were not many bm, or whether I should feel guilty for being a high-achiever, but whether in such environments, I could find the sense of community which would make it easier to find a life-long partner.

Living in large urban centers where there are many bm and bw don't seem to help many bw who want to marry, because they are surrounded by men who can take advantage of the women's disproportionate numbers, and that applies to ww and wm, too, even in cities like NY: there was a Newsweek or Time magazine article about this some time ago.

All of these cities on the east coast, where lots of women live, they are in the majority. In the west, it seems, there are more men than women.

I live now in the "Pioneer Valley," in New England, mostly white, small town and rural, and the nearest city with larger numbers of bm and bw is about 20 miles away.

When I moved here, I could count on the fingers of one hand the numbers of bm I saw with bw. Most of the bm I saw were with bw.

I saw no sense in wailing over the smaller numbers of bm and bw, or bm choosing ww over bw, but I focused instead on finding a man who believed in my values as a Christian woman, and who wanted marriage.

So I'm now a bw married to a wm.

Regards,

Pioneer Valley Woman

Anonymous said...

Some interesting articles:

Kay S. Hymowitz, Marriage and Caste:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_1_marriage_gap.html

I posted this one to Evia's blog:

Kay S. Hymowitz, Dads in the Hood:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_dads_hood.html

Pioneer Valley Woman

P.S., if the link doesn't show up well, at least you have the author and title of the pieces.

The Princess said...

Anonymous said...

"Also, how many of the 70% of black women are divorced? With 40-50% of marriages ending in divorce then this 70% statistic doesn't surprise me."

Good point

Aquarianbrass said...

The fact that over 90% of married black men are hitched to black woman makes false the lie that when black men to decide to marry they refuse to marry black women.
The fact is the marriage rate for blacks has always been lower than whites.
There has always been a gap just as their exist one in educational achievement, income, etc.. Even as we progress in areas whe are always one step behind. This gap can't be exactly explained Solely by historical or contemporary racism(Although historical racism most assuredly serves as a root cause.), it is probably a combination many things, including changes in social relations btw the sexes and economics.

One has to look at the problem of marriageless women from an overall perspective and realize that rates are down for all people and as the earlier poster mentioned, we live in a post-sexual revolution society that bares some resemblance to early matriarchal and matrilineal societies where men were often not expected to contribute much to their childs lives, therefore men were less committed to committed relationships.
In patriarchal and patrilineal societies, men are encouraged to marry because than men have more control over their heirs and the women who bear their heirs. Unfortunately, in these patriarchal societies, the man often "owned" the family and had complete control over its affairs. The feminist movement served to resist this phenomenon.
However, We live in a society where women have become more self-sufficient yet the "man provides for the family" meme is still strongly embedded in our society, so men maybe reluctant to enter into long-term relationships if they think their traditional role may be usurped.
With so many independent women about, many men may assume that these women act and think like men, meaning they themselves aren't looking for committed relationships anymore(whynot? Because marriage in the past served to provide security to a women and child. If a women no longer needs this what is the purpose)
I think we maybe seeing the break down of marriage on a global scale. In Europe it is already happening.

Aquarianbrass said...

Addendum,

Some evolutionary psychologist posit an interesting theory. Supposedly men and women developed separate strategies for passing on genes to offspring.
Given a mans long breeding life( he can produce young from puberty all the way to extreme old age) and the fact that he pays a lower price in order to produce children(basically just sex) he was in his best interest to "spread his love" around(so to speak) to as many females as possible. Basically, throw as many darts at the board as possible and hope one hits( a hit would be a viable, fertile offspring who reaches the age to reproduce and successfuly reproduces thus passing on genes)
Women on the other have a much shorter breeding life and incur far more cost in the process of reproduction(9 months of gestation that leaves here very vulnerable and often she is the one who will care and look after the offspring given that she had to carry it for 9 months)
Therefore, women had a much more vested interest in being picky as hell. he resources(eggs) were limited and therefore of high value. Also, given the pain and long term investment of carrying a child, a women had a much stronger interest in making sure that child survives to a age when it can care for itself. They couldn't play the dart game like men, they had to hit a bullseye everytime.
Soooo.....the psychologist(like Sperber) suggest that repeatedly sought out attractive females and attempted to mate. Males came to value variety and superficial qualities like beauty and body shape(The later gave hints to how fertile or suitable for childbearing a women was. Hips, breasts etc.)
Women on the other hand would seek a mate who would protect her and share resources with her thus enhancing her chances of bearing the child and raising them in a rich environment. Thus, they sought out mates were willing to commit to them AND able to protect them.
There is much more to the story but the gist is, men and women act differently in their relations to the opposite sex and it maybe inborn. Thus men seek a variety of mates and this may explain their greater willingness to date out of their in-group and may explain their higher rates of infidelity and resistance to settling down.
And this theory may explain why even women making 100 grand a year and have multiple degrees only seek men at or above their socio-economic level.(Men are much more willing to marry down)
I know its controversial and it is hotly debated in academia but it does shed some light on the plight of black women in this country.
If you combine a lower average incomes of black males(making them less desirable lifetime mates) and take into account the vast surplus of black women(a deincentive for black males to settle down) and combine that with liberal sexual practices, you get the situation we're in know. At least in theory.

One last thing, societies where men married at a high rate were often societies found some incentive for men to marry. One of these incentives is religion. In most religions fornication is a sin thus to have sex and still be good in the eyes of God one must marry. There were comprises of course, such as polygamy.(Satisfying a mans urge for sexual variety and solving the problems for women that results from the shortage of males)
BTW, there will almost certainly always be a shortage of men, even if we eliminate war, because male babies are just so much more fragile and prone to genetic disorders.

Anonymous said...

The fact that over 90% of married black men are hitched to black woman makes false the lie that when black men to decide to marry they refuse to marry black women.

But it doesn't contradict the fact that:

(1) Studies have consistently shown that BM have an increasingly negative attitude towards marriage and long-term relationships with women compared to other men; and

(2) the fact that 90% of BM's EXISTING marriages are with BW does not change the fact that the percentage of BM marrying BW is decreasing, and the percentage of BM marrying non-BW is increasing. Perhaps these trends will reverse, but they currently show no signs of doing so.

Certainly, marriage is decreasing across the board, and marriage rates have always been lower for black people. However, the disproportion has never been this great, and the disproportion does not effect BM and BW equally.

Above all, increasing numbers of BM are not interested in marriage, at least not with BW--while most BW are interested in marriage. Thus, if they want to marry, they will have to seek marriage partners from a larger pool of candidates than our community alone offers them.

Aquarianbrass said...

Well, I was making that point because some circles seem to entertain this idea that black men don't find black women attractive or worthy of marriage. Your right, black men don't value the institution of marriage period just like we have downplayed the importance of education and both attitudes are reasons why we are being left behind.
But, I wonder if this stat does takes into account long-term relationships among unmarried couple or common law marriages? I know many folks, black and white, who participate in this sort of arrangement.
I also wonder if anyone has done any studies in the difference btw young vs older black women when it comes to willingness to marry outside of the race. That would be interestin.g

EmergingPhoenix said...

Nice way of putting it into perspective Halima. The problem is not that bm refuse to marry bw, that is only a minute aspect of it. The racio-misogynistic behavior of bm, only contributes to the daily assault on bw, that renders them (bw) paralyzed and in some cases withdrawn from society. This leaves a portion of bw suffering from the byproducts of an unrecognized mental abuse, and not getting the proper rehabilation to rejoin the community.

The releveance of divorce is not an issue either, b/c as was pointed out earlier, these women are accounted for across all racial groups. And still our numbers are extremely low...to the point of non-existence. I mean when you fall below 50% we are talking about the breakdown of the family structure, which by the way can be seen in other racial groups. But does that make it acceptable? NO! Plus the damage that this breakdown causes is seen across all races, so why would we attempt to argue that this is a new age, that we would not only gladly enter into, but lead the way? Why not argue in favor of protecting the family structure? It seems that some people are just accepting what has been the progression of things, rather than evaluating the damaging effects and seeking to rectify them. This is not how a people progress.

Aquarianbrass said...

Emerging Phoenix,
I'm not sure what your referring to by the racio-misogynistic behavior of black males and what affect it has on black women but is it possible to refer us to any literature that details how black women withdraw from society?
Also, I would like to point out that the family structure is not set in stone. Among humans the family structure comes in many forms. The nuclear family is not the only possible nor necessarily best structure for the family unit.
But of course, one can argue that in our modern, capitalistic society which thrives on mobility, the small nuclear family unit may be the best adapted for our society.

Halima said...

But what I found as I grew up, is that it was impossible to meet bm as I got to be of college age and beyond. Many high-achieving bw go to school and work in environments where there are not many bm.
I saw no sense in wailing over the smaller numbers of bm and bw, or bm choosing ww over bw, but I focused instead on finding a man who believed in my values as a Christian woman, and who wanted marriage.

So I'm now a bw married to a wm.


URs is the right idea because we have only one life to live! some bw act like they have 8 lives waiting for them after this one, the way they are reluctant to do anything to help their situation out in anyway- waiting for all their girlfriends to move before they think its ok to move and cut thmselves some slack!

Even if One has to go behind everyones back and send them a postcard later, just to get a slice outta life, I think a healthy person should be willing to do that!

Halima said...

Aquarianbrass regarding racio-misogyny see this link
Black Women's IR Circle: The Essays: Virulent Racio-Misogyny in the Black Community

Evia said...

After all of the explanations, statistics, excuses, etc., I think that older bw must really get this go-for-marriage message across to younger bf (teenage girls and even very young black girls) and especially if that female even thinks she wants children. Black girls must also be taught how to evaluate males and taught not to be swayed merely by a man's looks or other superficial attributes UNLESS he also has attributes of substance to bring to the table.

These girls MUST be very deliberately taught to internalize the fact that their dating and marriage options MUST include ALL men in the global village.

Sistas, make sure you share these ideas with at least one bf EVERYDAY-whether it's online or offline or send them to an IR blog or site or something. Black females MUST re-condition black females because no one else will do it.

Unlike ww, bw cannot afford to wait until they're 30 before they start actively strategizing how to find a suitable and compatible mate. IMO, bw need to start in their early twenties scouting out marriage minded men of good quality and plan to go to school, live and/or work in the vicinity of these men. I know this may sound radical to some people, but it is a new day out there.

Let's keep in mind that many bw who cohabit with bm WANT to marry, but often it's the man who refuses to marry. As informal research that might prove interesting, if you know cohabiting couples, find out which of them (man or woman) doesn't want to get married. I've known cohabiting bw who desperately wanted to marry, but the man refused. I do realize that some cohabiting well-employed bw, especially, may not want to marry men who might not, for ex., be "pulling their weight."

At the end of the day, a marriage minded bw should NOT spend one minute more than necessary with a non-marriage minded man of any race because there are many other men who are marriage oriented. Black females need to be told this 24-7. These messages need to be taught, preached, drilled in, pounded and cemented into black female's brains.

Also, some divorced bw WANT very much to re-marry. Some people act as if a divorced bw should not be counted in the 70% single. Why should bw only have 1 shot at marriage?

Anonymous said...

I am under the belief that if the man doesn't want to marry it won't happen whether the female wants to or not. The ball is usually in the man's court so to speak it's usually he who ask.

I think this sort of applies to my brother. He's black, although he's not with a BW he's with an AW. They've been together for 8 years and he still hasn't asked her to marry him. I'm not sure does she want marriage (this is an assumption but my guess is yes). I don't know what's going through his mind but it's apparent he's hesitant to pop the question. Funny he wants kids but hasn't ask her to marry him.
Others in the family do sometimes ask why he hasn't asked yet. He really has no answer.

Anonymous said...

Why do people bring up cohabiting whe n we are talking about marriage? Even with cohabiting bw would be at the bottom of the pack. Remember, we all know gentlemen "cohabiting" with several females at once. Many states don't have common law or have stipulations on it, so many people who think they are common law aren't even common law.

I don't understand this persistent digging for one small sliver of feelgood in a pile of sh*t. Why this extreme mission, almost like the search for the HOLY GRAIL, to say oh it's not so bad.

People come to this blog and attack people here as heretics. looneys, and self haters yet come up with all these extra ridiculous excuses about the sorry state of many Black relationships.

As far as the psychobabble, bw are criticized when they are picky choosing mates and spit on when they choose from the piddlings of the race and it blows up on them.

caligirl94117 said...

I have seen a number of anonymous posts examining co-habiting relationships and expressing the opinion that marriage and the nuclear family isn't ideal!

Why are we as black women so willing to accept less than the gold standard? I don't care about the stats on which bw have a man, to me, it's marriage or nothing.

The perfect example of us lowering our standards is Kim Porter who had her "piece of man" by cohabiting with him, but J-Lo left him when she felt he wasn't right. She knew he'd not marry her, and she knew he'd be unfaithful, so she left him. Same man, two women, one black, one hispanic. One left and the other took him back for more punishment. We BW need to expect and demand more from the men in our lives regardles sof race.

Halima said...

Hey can anyone get for me, the link to the stats that 60% of higher paid married bm are in relationships with non-black women, i think its from washington post. thanks

Anonymous said...

Why are we as black women so willing to accept less than the gold standard? I don't care about the stats on which bw have a man, to me, it's marriage or nothing.
----------------------------

What gold standard? Marriage is on a global decline.

How many people do you know have been happily married for 10 years or more (black or white)?

Halima said...

^^
Yes and i guess as marriage is in decline, bw should eliminate themselves even from the line up for the race. i mean being the bottom of the barrel that we are etc, why even hope for anything when other women havent had their fill yet, right? (sarcasm)

Evia said...

What gold standard? Marriage is on a global decline.

How many people do you know have been happily married for 10 years or more (black or white)?


AND????????????

This is like saying to impoverished black people that since the rich are getting richer and poor are getting poorer that poor blacks should just be satisfied to wallow in poverty.

People should aspire to HIGH ideals not LOW ones. Your type of thinking is the main reason why we're in this state--folks like you have worn down the high standards that we blacks used to have for ourselves. We have to have HIGH standards and keep moving towards them--NO MATTER WHAT.

When a woman cohabits with a man or is simply his baby momma, she is not respected or recognized by key segments of society. A commenter on my blog sent me this clip that perfectly illustrates this point. She said:

Today on my local news, a story was on about a woman named Ashanti Green-Peterson, who was the girlfriend and mother of two (one on the way) of Dave Peterson, Jr.(A former football player for championship college team LSU) for seven years. Even though she goes by his last name she was never married to this man. He recently died in a motorcycle accident.

Since she was not his wife she will get no life insurance or spousal benefits. She may be entering in a legal battle with his mother because the benefits will go to his mother since Ashanti wasn't his wife.

This is another example of a story recently on your blog about not being Baby Mommas. Now she will have two young children to raise on her own because she accepted not being married to this man. Her children will not get what is rightfully their's because their Mother didn't have the sense to marry that man or leave. He also was the co-owner of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle dealership that his kids will never see the money from. Black women need to wake up and stop having children out of wedlock.


So if she had been married to him for 1 hour, she and her child would not be in this predicament insofar as his assets are concerned. This is another very important aspect of this issue--Finances.

Black women are scared to mention the money angle to bm because so many bm will start screaming "goldigger" but the fact is that his assets or benefits are going to be shared by SOMEBODY and if the worst happens, his assets will go to somebody else. (smh)

So as far as I'm concerned, if he wants and gets "benefits" from me, then I'm going to put myself AND MY CHILDREN DIRECTLY in line for his assets and benefits--with no questions asked. Children really suffer when they have dumb mamas.

The Princess said...

"caligirl94117 said...
Why are we as black women so willing to accept less than the gold standard? I don't care about the stats on which bw have a man, to me, it's marriage or nothing."

IMO, many Black women in relationships with Black men are afraid to rock the boat and ask for marriage.

Often times the women are accused of being 'needy' or 'demanding'.

I agree with you. Black women need to have higher standards.

We need to stop looking at ourselves as just being mammies and support systems in the community, and demand more.

F. said...

I love the term marriage resistant.
I think too many women, nowadays, simply lack the will to demand marriage. They settle for whatever little bit of a relationship they get.

Anonymous said...

I think it is so easy to forget marriage traditionally was seen as a means of protecting women from men who would prey on them, use them and dump them. It was seen as making a man more responsible; as a family man, he was supposed to have his head on right, to take care of his wife and family.

In the 19th century,the newly emancipated slaves demanded that their family bonds be protected, because it was due to the fact that they were seen as not having any families being worthy of recognizing, much less protecting, that they could be abused, ie., children taken away from their parents, partners separated from each other.

So why are we rejecting the institution of marriage that our ancestors recognized we needed in order to protect and establish our communities?

As Kay Hymowitz noted in marriage and caste, it is now the property of the (primarily white) educated middle class, who always understood the purpose of marriage.

I think we should require all students, from high school, on upwards, to read texts on the history of marriage and the development of family law, because what Evia says is right.

If a woman is unmarried, she gets no share of her partner's estate for her children if he dies without a will.

If a woman is unmarried, the baby daddy's name goes on the birth certificate, only if he chooses to do so. If he's married, it's automatic.

People need to look at the Uniform Parentage Act, which explains just how married parents rights differ from those of the baby mammas and baby daddies.

Pioneer Valley Woman

caligirl94117 said...

"How many people do you know have been happily married for 10 years or more (black or white)?"

This question really gets to the heart of the decline of marriage globally and nationally. Self indulgence and individualism are killing the family.

We're supposed to do what is right, not only what makes us feel good. If we want to be happy after 10 years of marriage, then it behooves us to choose quality husbands based on their character, values, morals, and ethics. Looks and financial standing should come next. If he has the foundation right (including advanced education), then providing responsible men with a family and home usually yields great returns in his financial productivity.Most importantly, hold back on sex until we are certain that we know enough about the man first (if possible until marriage).

Modern societies are unhappy in marriage because we only want to do what feels good, not what is good. We choose based on the wrong criteria: $ in the bank, size of car, size of house, size of penis, etc...

Evia said...

"How many people do you know have been happily married for 10 years or more (black or white)?"

The question could also be: How many people (beyond a certain age and stage of life) are happy NOT married? Even individuals who claim they're happy cohabitators are often happy at their partner's expense. Most "undamaged" unattached people I know or hear or read about are out there looking for somebody or waiting around to meet that special person. These people (women nor men)obviously don't relish a solitary life.

Look at the next 50 years of your life. What are the alternatives to marriage? Cohabitation? Recreational sex? Numerous short term relationships? Life as a hermit? Friends with "benefits?"
F%ck buddies? Hit and runs? Celibacy?

Wow--don't they all sound like tons of fun? LOL!!

Almost all of these involve sex and sooner or later, a fertile, healthy woman who has sex regularly is going to get pregnant--no matter what she does, barring use of a form of contraception that often endangers her health or having a medical procedure to prevent future pregnancies. Or the woman can just have endless abortions. Thrilling stuff--those serial abortions. (smh)

Someone on here a couple of weeks ago posted a whole slew of stats and research results pointing out the numerous emotional and other benefits of marriage for men, women, and children. Yet so many AA's still can't or don't want to accept that marriage (though imperfect) is the best system devised to regulate (sexual)interactions between men and woman and raising children. This is the case in ALL societies. Many people who are not happy after 10 years of marriage would also not be happy even if they were single BECAUSE they have unresolved emotional and other ISSUES. Marriage is not always or even usually the CAUSE of a married person's unhappiness. In other words, it's not the marriage--it's the people in the marriage who are the problem. This is why I've stressed that people should work through their crippling issues BEFORE getting into a relationship with the opposite sex of any race. Period.

Anyway, my advice to black women is not to allow yourself to be used by men who claim they care for you or love you, but won't marry you. Some men will continue to argue forever that it's not the piece of paper (marrigage certificate) that's important, but in that case, he should be willing to just marry the woman and give her that "unimportant" piece of paper. LOL!

Any woman is just dumb if she allows her body, her womb, her youth, etc. to be rented, borrowed, or used over and over and over without the benefit of marriage. If a woman is good enough for a man to "use" over and over, she is good enough for him to marry. So if he's anti-marriage, you should get away from him unless you're ruled out marriage permanently.

For those women who want marriage, this is just why it's also extremely important to find a loving, loveable, suitable and compatible man that will make a solid marriage partner. This is a very strong reason why a bw should broaden her dating and marriage pool.

Remember that your choice of a mate is THE most important decision you will ever make.

jacque said...

Most marriageable black men ( the few out there)....DON'T WANT TO GET MARRIED. THEY DON'T FEEL AN UEGENCY OR A NEED TO. PERIOD
The pickins are NOT slim for them. Most tell me they plan to marry after 45 or when they tired of " the game". Mind you these are the professional well to do types.
I am a professional woman and can VIVIDLY remember well meaning friends telling me to scour the jails for a mate..at least he'll be black.
I just ignored that advice. I have never been in the "mammY" camp.
To be honest, and it's hard for me to admit..but ...I have never considered BM a marriageable option. The ones I knew in high school,and college were crass , rude , immature underacheivers who got the girls anyway. Those who did manage to make something of their lives would only pay attention to a BW IF she was light , bright and damn near white. But mostly white or asian women were the prizes , IF they DID want to marry. Well, I AM NOT INTO leftovers.
White men ask me " WHY do the thugs get the nice, pretty black women"?

Well not much has been asked of them anyway...ever.....especially from black women.
I JUST DON'T get it. A broke , jobless BM can always find SEVERAL women to accomodate him( see the movie Baby Boy). But a professional , well educated BM get less sex than a damn inmate(who can get conjugal visits).LOL...It's not right....and not fair...
Fight back ladies ...fight with your intelligence, beauty,talent confidence on FULL display.
Walk right in front of the playas...and pass them by.

Don't take the leftovers....LOL let'm get cold.

Anonymous said...

Lol at happiness of others determining what you do. If that was the case, every black person should just evacuate to the desert and feed off the young. I know people who are
rich and have everything and are unhappy. Besides single and cohabiting women aren't any happier than married women. There enough of them on talk shows, radio shows, blogs and black websites complaining about their life.

I think the lack of interest in marriage is similar to blacks generally not being as health conscious, money savvy, or business savvy. Every body expects for things to occur by magic forgetting that their are steps and levels. It really pisses me off when women do the baby momma thing then get mad when dude bounces or dies and their left out in the cold buck naked. And yeah it happens to married women but at least there are more methods for married women to get their share and for their children to get their share.

I know many people who are unhappy with their jobs, going to school, or paying taxes yet do them every year without fail. But I'm not supposed to want to get married and live like a family because some lame thinks he's too good for me or his mommma is jealous cuz I have a man and she doesn't. Guess what every time your sons hear you glorying over doing it yourself and you saying his baby mama asks too much. They take it to heart and think their baby mama or wife is too demanding. It's seems to be a never ending cycle.

It's interesting that they all want to get married at 45 or later when average life span for a black male is like 56 -65. So any children they have then more than likely will have a unhealthy old father and his wife will have some old deteriorating old man.

Anonymous said...

Yet so many AA's still can't or don't want to accept that marriage (though imperfect) is the best system devised to regulate (sexual)interactions between men and woman and raising children.


From a women's viewpoint this may be true, but what benefits does the man have from marriage? With the equal rights movement, women have emasculated the man's traditional role. Again, what do I have to gain from being married?

To tell the truth, from a man's perspective it would be better to legalize prostitution then to get married and then go through a divorce which financially binds us.

Anonymous said...

Oh and as far as marriage, bw have the least to lose and the most to gain because even if you get divorced or left, it's not as if it's unnatural to be a single mother or single female over a certain age among black people. Maybe if us family members that did something with our lives stop supporting these freeloaders and encouraged them to marry someone black people would be able to get somewhere. It's not fair to burden your family members with your financial worries and other things your child's father should be taking care of.

classical one said...

Feminism has not emasculated men, it has kept women from becoming chattel as they were previously. Women of my grandmothers generation had practically no rights in a marriage. They had no choice of jobs, limited educational access and almost no freedom of divorce. Is this really what we want to bring back?

whitemenforblackwomen.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Nope, classical one. Besides the average black family didn't even have that system. BW have generally had to work or most of these complainers and haters moms and dads would have starved.

But you know many black people think poverty is noble. So why do the best to as far as you know set your kids up with a foundation when you can lay up with a broke negro and live a life of crime and drama. From what I've witnessed and seen bw can't live an easy life or not have too many problems or people will not consider her a real black woman or one who is down for the struggle. <---There it is again, the struggle.


For all this allegiance to the community, what do bw get. WW, AW, and LW at least get recognition and the ability to find decent men of their race and other races. But all this self sacrifice and self segregation by black women gets them what. If someone can tell me what and something substantial not some shallow rhetoric or good black mama prize from Mammies'r'us crew, I'd be surprised.

nottinghillchick said...

@Evia's comments:
"Sistas, make sure you share these ideas with at least one bf EVERYDAY-whether it's online or offline or send them to an IR blog or site or something. Black females MUST re-condition black females because no one else will do it..."
ooooh, it's a sensitive one but it's do-able

nottinghillchick said...

@Evia's comments:
"Let's keep in mind that many bw who cohabit with bm WANT to marry, but often it's the man who refuses to marry. As informal research that might prove interesting, if you know cohabiting couples, find out which of them (man or woman) doesn't want to get married. I've known cohabiting bw who desperately wanted to marry, but the man refused. I do realize that some cohabiting well-employed bw, especially, may not want to marry men who might not, for ex., be "pulling their weight.".... a marriage minded bw should NOT spend one minute more than necessary with a non-marriage minded man of any race because there are many other men who are marriage oriented...to be taught, preached, drilled in, pounded and cemented into black female's brains."
I've always believed that MANY WOMEN who cohabit want to marry. In fact they want to marry the man they cohabit with and see it as a sort of pre-marriage 'agreement'. Sadly over the years most have had their marriage plans postponed severally or called off entirely...and this after (sometimes) over 5 years of living together 'to know each other habits and bodies' as the reasoning goes. This year along I've heard about 3 cases (all WW btw) where the WM dug his heels in. This I think is because to ANY man cohabiting is a end in itself not a pre-marriage plan. I heard that of these 3 WM, one called it off after 6 years, another one went along with his parents pressure after 16 years and took the girl to the family jewellers to try on engagement rings but didnt propose (how horrible is that?) and third WM ignored the girl's hints at engagement / marriage, bear in mind she's a senior manager at my previous employer (she's good looking, very intellingent and articulate, bright future etc) and guess what - she bought herself an engagement ring - to save face!! *sigh* And I know of many BW too who wear rings on their wedding finger, only it's neither an engagement or a wedding ring!! (SMH) I just don't know what else to say about co-habiting - it seems like a disease- any woman ESPECIALLY BW co-signing to a LTR without marriage being an immediate end is shortchanging herself AND her children. Short term dating, yes, if a man's not interested in marriage AND soon, then move on. It'll hurt at first I think but you have to be ruthless now to kind to yourself later...and time is going fast. Evia I read your blog and it's convinced me all the more about many many issues including marriage as a BW's objective. So has Halima's. Great work, both of you. Truly, reading comments here I agree that marriage (though not perfect) is not itself the problem, but the people in it often are. Some of us need to say 'ouch'

"Also, some divorced bw WANT very much to re-marry. Some people act as if a divorced bw should not be counted in the 70% single. Why should bw only have 1 shot at marriage?"
There's two dimensions to this in my experience:
[a] the same old hat, where everyone thinks that they can tell single people inc divorced people (men and women) how to live, what to do next, what's 'wrong' in their lives. Insensitivity is a core problem. Often the advice is full of how to compromise your standards. I may be wrong but I think this situation would be familiar to those who get widowed too
[b] there's a church-eous background to this, aka legalism, where people (mis)quote those areas of the bible that suits them, whereby people get into mental bondage. Too many lopsided christian beliefs and backgrounds mislead perceptions so that divorced people are seen as (and treated as) indelibly tainted. I know someone, a BW, who said to me that (though she left her husband following mental and physical abuse, and they were now legally separated which is a precursor to divorce), she believed that as a christian she would always be married to him. It was hard for me not to scream at her, but I held it together and told her a few things that I understood about being a christian.
To those who don't understand what's been said about (one of the benefits of marriage) financial cover for any children from divorce as opposed to any children of a babydaddy: the BW I refer to will be entitled to proceed from the sale of the house which could be a few hundred thousand pounds. How about that for offsetting future university fees for her children? One of her girls is already top of the class - imagine if she ended up not being able to get into the uni of her choice?? It's all about planning for the future. Thrive and survive - or be wretched. Your choice. If she was a babymama Lord knows she would be in a multifaceted mess now. Common law means that if there's more than one of you then any assets would be shared among more heads. That's what happens even in polygamy. Think, ladies, think!

Back to Evia, on balance I have heard that most divorced (men and women) do remarry. The key issue for anyone who's divorced as I understand it is to address any (I use your term) "crippling issues" that led to/contributed to the breek up ie deal with baggage - before the next marriage IMO. Without going off topic I'll summarise my response to your question - exactly! why should BW have only one shot at marriage?

nottinghillchick said...

Anon at 9.47 said "How many people do you know have been happily married for 10 years or more (black or white)?"
Evia's reply
"Look at the next 50 years of your life. What are the alternatives to marriage? Cohabitation? Recreational sex? Numerous short term relationships? Life as a hermit? Friends with "benefits?"
F%ck buddies? Hit and runs? Celibacy?...Wow--don't they all sound like tons of fun?....Almost all of these involve sex and sooner or later, a fertile, healthy woman who has sex regularly is going to get pregnant--no matter what she does, barring use of a form of contraception that often endangers her health or having a medical procedure to prevent future pregnancies. Or the woman can just have endless abortions. Thrilling stuff--those serial abortions. (smh)

Someone on here a couple of weeks ago posted a whole slew of stats and research results pointing out the numerous emotional and other benefits of marriage for men, women, and children. Yet so many AA's still can't or don't want to accept that marriage (though imperfect) is the best system devised to regulate (sexual)interactions between men and woman and raising children. This is the case in ALL societies...."


If you still don't get what's being said over and over by Halima and Evia...you prolly never ever will. SMH.

Sadly still, someone else touched the older generation of babymamas 'patting themselves on the back' so much so they reinforce their male children's resistance to marriage. This may also filter to the female offspring. So the next generation then lives out some sort of jaded loyalty to their parent's ideas. SMH. Is this any different from people who stubbornly limit their dating pool?!

Anyway any sensible BW shouldn't wait around with any man if you even sniff that sort of situation from his family. Becos even if you did get married such a mother / family would be working overtime for your divorce to happen.
Flee! Flee now!!

Halima said...

From what I've witnessed and seen bw can't live an easy life or not have too many problems or people will not consider her a real black woman or one who is down for the struggle.

best believe! best belive!

Halima said...

Anon 12:27
From a women's viewpoint this may be true, but what benefits does the man have from marriage? With the equal rights movement, women have emasculated the man's traditional role. Again, what do I have to gain from being married?
To tell the truth, from a man's perspective it would be better to legalize prostitution then to get married and then go through a divorce which financially binds us.


We know u are marriage resistant, the main post is about men like you!

Evia said...

Don't y'all just wish that all of these men who are marriage resistant would also be sex-resistant or at least just go to prostitutes? LOL!! I'm serious!! But sistas, they're not going to prostututes because they would have to PAY, PAY, PAY,etc.

And why should they go to prostitutes when they can come to bw and other women who they can get sex from for free and get y'all to cook for them, keep them company,nurse them when they're sick, have babies (to prove their manhood, of course--LOL),lend/give them money or co-sign their loans, and numerous other favors 'cause a bw is SUPPOSED to understand what a brothaman goes through with de evil white man.' LOL! But STILL, these brothamen won't marry y'all, and will accuse y'all of being 'needy' and 'demanding' whenever y'all bring up the subject of marriage. LOL!

And for some of them who keep saying that de evil wm won't give a bm a job to support his family, the fact is that there are many brothamen who are well-educated and with substantial incomes these days, yet still won't marry their main booty call bw or the ones they cohabit with. These men are playas of the suit and tie variety.

A typical playa out there can sex a sista as long as he wants in all kinds of ways and she'll get up and cook for him, wash his clothes, run errands for him, give him money, and have and support/struggle with the babies all by herself--in the hopes that he will marry her one day.

Let's face it. These men have a lot more respect for prostitutes because I don't ever hear bm calling prostitutes bitches, ho's, sluts, babymammas, chickenheads, hoodrats, etc. BECAUSE prostitutes ALWAYS look out for themselves FIRST and FOREMOST and they do that from the very first minute of their interaction with any man and up to the very last minute of the interaction with him.

Self-preservation is the first law of nature. Black women must re-learn this. Bw must re-teach this law to other bw. I see bw who are sick, in pain, eating themselves to death to suppress the pain, and they're still out there in the community trying to do just one more thing to save it. Yet, when's the last time you heard anyone sing the praises of bw? Instead, we're constantly criticized and MOSTLY by other black people.

The saying goes that "only the strong survive." Strong=smart. Stop giving yourself away for free because there are many men who are willing to commit to you and are willing to give you as much love as you could ever want or need. Don't let anyone convince you that nonblack men don't want you or won't commit to you. This is pure HYPE.

Anonymous said...

Halima said...
Anon 12:27
From a women's viewpoint this may be true, but what benefits does the man have from marriage? With the equal rights movement, women have emasculated the man's traditional role. Again, what do I have to gain from being married?
To tell the truth, from a man's perspective it would be better to legalize prostitution then to get married and then go through a divorce which financially binds us.

We know u are marriage resistant, the main post is about men like you!



This is also about you Halima ... mid-forties and probably will never get a marriage proposal

Anonymous said...

Check out this link ... this is a perfect example of the loveable, marriable non-black man you all need to consider

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288740,00.html

Miriam said...

if I could say something that is not apparently practical i'd say please please ladies don't forget prayer! (for those who believe in the Almighty)

there is an old (jewish) story that could be applied for any:

A princess once asked a sage, "Since creation, what's the Creator doing these days?"

His reply, "making matches!"

The princess thought, oh is that all?! I can do that! And so she took one servant and matched her with another servant, and on and on. About a month later she checked on her "newlyweds" No body was happy! One guy had a broken nose, another lady had a black eye. The matches just weren't working out.

Only then she recognized all that it took in making a match

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

what do I have to gain from being married?

To tell the truth, from a man's perspective it would be better to legalize prostitution then to get married and then go through a divorce which financially binds us.


As an attorney, I can't help laughing whenever I hear your typical DBRBM, who doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, start ranting and raving about "goldiggers" trying to stick him for half his nonexistent "paper" in a divorce.

In most marriages today you have two working people of comparable incomes, and in the immediate aftermath of a divorce, it is the WOMAN who's financial well-being deteriorates--the man's financial well-being usually increases, because the woman is usually the custodial parent of the children.

DBRBM weep over the child support obligations of pro athletes and Diddy--WEALTHY men who've chosen to father multiple OOW children with multiple women. In the meantime, most DBRBM are THEMSELVES dependent on some form of lifelong "child support"--from the new girlfriend, babymama #3, their own mama.

Typical DBRBM mentality, that disregards the objective, overwhelming data documenting the long-term benefits to wealth, longevity, and happiness enjoyed by MEN who marry, and instead cling stubbornly to a fantasy world where their fantasy riches are constantly imperiled by conniving women.

The reality is that "men" like you SHOULDN'T get married. You and your ilk are NOT quality marriage material, and BW with options should be exercising those options by seeking out men who understand the value of family, commitment, and community. Thank you for illustrating that for us once again.

nottinghillchick said...

hi Halima
Troll Alert!
Or Nuisance flash or Pest Parade: see Anonymous post at 2.10pm.

To Anonymous 2.10pm:
Oh, we get it - you posted article on married WM visiting prostitutes versus the current blog discussion of marriage-resistant BM (who serially treat BW worse than prostitutes) with a lifestyle of moving onto the next 'sympathetic' BW, leaving devastation behind...

Yes, we get it! See, they're both one AND the same thing. Except that one party IS married and had dealt with his issues before they became public. Plus he wants admits his wrongdoing. And his wife knows last-last she'll get a tidy alimony to look after her kids. While the other party is unrepentant and sees no need to take responsibility. The (often many) women involved with him are literally left holding nothing but the baby(ies). It's happening right under your nose, even today, there's some 'sympathetic' BW opening her home & womb for another timewaster.
I've heard is said that only among black people would you hear of a person with 8 kids and they've NEVER been married. To you who are marriage-resistant, you think that's a good thing?!

Your post backfired, so thank you for proving nothing, you Anonymous twit.

foreverloyal said...

Men who really value marriage not only understand companionship, commitment, and community, but they understand LEGACY.
They live not only for today but for the future.
Notice not every man or woman who has been married really gets what it's all about.
We need to be sure to only marry compatible people who "get it".

Halima said...

As an attorney, I can't help laughing whenever I hear your typical DBRBM, who doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, start ranting and raving about "goldiggers" trying to stick him for half his nonexistent "paper" in a divorce.

In most marriages today you have two working people of comparable incomes, and in the immediate aftermath of a divorce, it is the WOMAN who's financial well-being deteriorates--the man's financial well-being usually increases, because the woman is usually the custodial parent of the children.

DBRBM weep over the child support obligations of pro athletes and Diddy--WEALTHY men who've chosen to father multiple OOW children with multiple women. In the meantime, most DBRBM are THEMSELVES dependent on some form of lifelong "child support"--from the new girlfriend, babymama #3, their own mama.

Typical DBRBM mentality, that disregards the objective, overwhelming data documenting the long-term benefits to wealth, longevity, and happiness enjoyed by MEN who marry, and instead cling stubbornly to a fantasy world where their fantasy riches are constantly imperiled by conniving women.
anon

The reality is that "men" like you SHOULDN'T get married. You and your ilk are NOT quality marriage material, and BW with options should be exercising those options by seeking out men who understand the value of family, commitment, and community. Thank you for illustrating that for us once again.


PREACH!

Halima said...

This is also about you Halima ... mid-forties and probably will never get a marriage proposal

I MUST HAVE HIT A NERVE lol!. Not to worry i am sure those prostitutes that you are so fond of will be right there 4 U, that is for a few dollars of course lol!

BellaDonna said...

Anonymous said...

This is also about you Halima
___________________________________

You're right--this IS about Halima, Evia, and all of the other smart, attractive, accomplished BW who refuse to waste even one single moment of their lives on DBRBM. We've moved on, and we're happy--and we want to help as many of our equally wonderful sisters as possible also move on and enjoy the peace and happiness that we've achieved.

Clearly, the reason you're here is because YOU can't move on--but that's irrelevant, because we'll never look back, and we'll never stop helping other sisters achieve the joy and security that is their birthright.

Personally, I welcome commentary like your's, because it is Exhibit "A" for all those sisters who are unsure about whether they are "selling out" by "crossing over." You make it clear that sisters are only selling THEMSELVES out by settling for embittered, sociopathic DBRBM, who will only drag them down and bring sorrow to their lives and the lives of their children and families.

Your type doesn't want to be husbands or fathers, or do anything other than "get yours." Well, you're gonna have to "get yours" somewhere else--this gravy train has pulled out of the station.

Anonymous said...

As an attorney, I can't help laughing whenever I hear your typical DBRBM, who doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, start ranting and raving about "goldiggers" trying to stick him for half his nonexistent "paper" in a divorce.

I knew someone would call me a DBR BM lol. I have an MBA and work on Wall St and I will not have what I worked for taken away from me because of a failed marriage.

I come from a two parent home who are still together (39yrs) In fact my father (black man) is a PhD. My mother was mostly a stay at home mom. However, with today's working, liberated women there seems to be more conflict in marriage then when I was growing up in the 70s.

You all state marriage is such the natural thing to do when even the Bible says it's allright to be single.

Still, no one has told me THEIR OPINION on why marriage is good for the man?

Halima said...

We dont care to explain anything to you, its not that important to us! NEXT!

Anonymous said...

Better yet ... you all can't possibly tell me what's best for the man in marriage because you will always see it from a Woman's perspective.

I guess you can keep convincing women that marriage is the best thing for them and I'll keep convincing these younger guys that they are throwing away their wealth.

I have these young analyst that work for me who are bustin' their asses to just afford a place to live in a place like New York. I have seen it happen-- these guys losing their $900,000 condo becuase he couldn't get along with a woman. You all are fools if you think that is "community and legacy" lol

Halima said...

you proly thought tht if you mentioned that you work in wall street we would get all excited and that..Sorry to disappoint. DBR is DBR wether it come with its own condo, trust!

Besides werent you off to visit those prostitutes, whats holding u up!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

I knew someone would call me a DBR BM lol. I have an MBA and work on Wall St and I will not have what I worked for taken away from me because of a failed marriage.

Because you have a degree and a job, you think you can't possibly be a DBRBM? Think again my friend--you fit the mold to a "T": "the fact is that there are many brothamen who are well-educated and with substantial incomes these days, yet still won't marry their main booty call bw or the ones they cohabit with. These men are playas of the suit and tie variety."

Still, no one has told me THEIR OPINION on why marriage is good for the man?

Because we DON'T CARE whether you believe marriage is good for you. The data showing that marriage is good for both individuals and societies is massive and indisputable. Luckily, MOST of the men in the world understand why marriage benefits their health, their wealth, and their communities--they don't need women to explain this to them or convince them of it.

As I said before, since you DON'T get it, the best possible thing for you to do is to stay single. The black community has unfortunately been aflicted with a plague of males like you who don't need a bit of convincing to have sex, to make babies OOW, to juggle multiple women, to put your little two-bit "paper" above any and everything in life--males who are parasites on our community, who exist to take without ever giving. Feel free to ask your mammy/mules to give you THEIR OPINION on why men should marry--the women here no longer care what your ilk chooses to do.

Miriam said...

Whoa! Even the bible encourages being single? Where is that?

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I don't have kids and don't plan on having children OOW

If I did have children I would take great care of them like my father took care of me and my brother.

I guess I'm a DBR BM because I won't marry a black woman or any woman for that matter. lol

I've made my choice and I get chastisement from scorned women such as yourselves.

I don't know why you all have to try and convince the world that marriage is the only way to go.

I'm currently dating a young black lady but she understands upfront what my long-term expectations are.
She has her assets she wants to protect as well.

With regards to prostitutes I was speaking hypothetically. I will never have to pay for sex. In fact a day doesn't go by in which some women black or white doesn't show interest in me.

I know my post is making some of you sick, so I’ll stop before you throw up. However, it is my opinion. It’s America right? lol

Miriam said...

I am so thrilled to see black sistas standing up and caring for one another!

Anonymous said...

Miriam said...
Whoa! Even the bible encourages being single? Where is that?
---------------------
Read all of 1 Corinthians chpt 7:1-39

in particular ...

vs 8 - Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.

vs 27 - Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.

Miriam said...

Stumbling Upon a White Guy

There is not very many people that I can talk about this side of my life with. For what its worth to anyone out there I just wanted to say a small part of my story.

I had been hurt alot and was very turned off with marriage, black men, even sex was intimidating. So I kept to myself. Alot of people accused me or joked that I was lesbian, but it just wasn't true. I knew it. Its just that I could not trust anyone enough.

While at my job, I noticed many non-black men being very friendly towards me. I figured it was because we both knew we couldn't be with each other and so that made things "safe". Granted some of them were sleezy or weird -which was a turn off, but most weren't. As time passed on, only then did I realize that they actually liked me and was trying to establish a relationship. Later on as time passed by, I somehow gained hope in life again and wanted to get married.

When I saw that most of my options were not suitable black males, the previous experience made that leap much easier.

Miriam said...

Anony: oh okay. don't know the new testament.

thanks.

GoldenAh said...

The last time I dated a black guy was over 10 years ago. From what I've been reading on this site (and others) I can tell I haven't missed anything.

I date only non-Black men. Whenever I politely turn down some black males they get angry, bitter, and vitriolic - confirming my thought that a lot of them are mentally disturbed.

If they don't like bw why not just leave us alone? I suspect some feel entitled to special treatment or an easy lay, and a case of misery liking company.

Marriage is extremely important, and bw should do everything to find mentally stable men who desire it.

Miriam said...

Courage sistas!

There is a saying behind every great man is an even greater woman.

One of the greatest men who ever lived, Moses for sure had a black wife. And he's the greatest prophet in the J world.

At any rate, marriage is about responsibility. A guy who thinks they can "get" w/o having a responsible part can't hear why marriage is important, and for that reason should be avoided by any women who takes responsibility seriously.

Being in a relationship w/o marriage is well, selfish, I think. Its about gaining for the self but always leaving a door open for the impending 'escape'.

My parents are still together. 3X years (not sure exactly) but they fought alot and that made me scared initially of marriage.

Then somehow I learned to trust. To love, to care about another.

Anonymous said...

Whenever I politely turn down some black males they get angry, bitter, and vitriolic


I have even heard some of them call BW a bitch if she chooses not to talk to him.

Aphrodite said...

This has all been very interesting.


I haven't mastered the flirting thing - yet, but I have managed to make eye contact and say hello.

I am slowly building up to maintaining longer eye contact.



I also have another question for evaluating men. I recall from some of the posts that this is the most important decision that a woman can make and that she should chose the best guy.



What about running into men who ask for your qualifications career wise?

I am an aspiring artist and I am finishing school and I don't have tons of stuff i.e. money, assests, gadgets etc. I guess I am more granola than anything.


All of the things that I would have to give to someone are inner qualities - how do you evaluate the men who will value those qualities?



For example some men dismiss feelings, intuition, over logic etc.



I can be logical - I have to be to survive and I am responsible - I am putting myself through school and holding my own, but I don't want to be a guy's clone.

Evia said...

If they don't like bw why not just leave us alone?

Yes, this is THE question. If bm don't want to give us what we're asking: COMMITMENT, then why not just leave us alone. Rest assured that MOST bw will find other loving and loveable men who will be willing to commit to us. Some of us have already found these men. Many bw are currently going through the transitional phase of cleansing their system of DBRbm.

To this bm who keeps asking how marriage benefits him, well, he's a perfect case in point. Sistas, when I was single, I wouldn't be bothered for more than a second with a clueless, underdeveloped man like this. As I said, I'm not impressed by degrees, income, I.Q's, because obviously you can have all of these and still be clueless about very important areas of life. I always looked for a man who's a critical thinker--one who had ALREADY connected the dots. This bm is a perfect case of a bm who's asking for a teacher and a mommy. Just like he doesn't know the answer to this question, I know that he doesn't know a lot of other key information about relating to a woman. I know he doesn't know anything about the richness of a committed relationship. He's also scared and is seeking a woman to shush his fears, a mommy-figure. A man (an adult) knows that there are no guarantees in life. He knows that he must commit himself to DEVELOPING a satisfying relationship with a woman.

So, a grown man who is undamaged and on my level ALREADY knows the answer to this question and therefore wouldn't be on the internet asking strange women this critical question. Both my Nigerian husband and my white husband ALREADY knew the importance of marriage to a full-fledged, satisfying relationship and life with a woman and how marriages help to stablilize individuals and communities. They knew that when a man holds back and refuses to commit, the woman involved is NEVER going to trust him to the extent she would if he fully committed. Trust is critical in a man-woman relationship. Without trust, there is no real relationship of worth.

A woman is a mass of interconnecting emotions. If a typical SMART woman is unable to trust a man, she is never going to fully enjoy sex with him. She is always going to hold back because she knows that he's not fully invested in the relationship.
Therefore, many women in such relationships do a LOT of faking when it comes to sex.

Also, whenever a man refuses to marry a woman, it's because he doesn't trust her, and she would indeed be foolish to trust him when he doesn't trust her.

I think it was Michael Baisden who said that when a man is in a multi-year relationship with a woman and refuses to marry her, the man is actually looking around for someone better but naturally doesn't tell the woman this. I definitely know that if I had ever found myself in such a situation, I would have always been looking around for someone better than him--someone who would commit to me. A woman doesn't want to hold back emotionally and sexually. She wants to eventually he able to let down her guard and exhale. LOL!!

Ms CPA said...

I don't think I Corinthians is saying flat out that everyone should remain single. I don't want to turn Halima's blog into a Bible discussion group but will suggest that those who are interested read Corinthians in its entirety to understand the context of the quoted sections.

Aphrodite said...

Hi Evia..


"A woman is a mass of interconnecting emotions. If a typical SMART woman is unable to trust a man, she is never going to fully enjoy sex with him. She is always going to hold back because she knows that he's not fully invested in the relationship.
Therefore, many women in such relationships do a LOT of faking when it comes to sex."



I had no idea. I have been in many situations where I would go there, but I don't think I have been conscious/self aware enough to realize that this was a trust issue.

Anonymous said...

I agree. You need to read the whole page to fully understand what it means. I really don't like when people take a specific verse from the bible and try to interpret it alone without reading the rest of the chapter and or page. It works for some verses but not all.

Anonymous said...

Evia said,

He knows that he must commit himself to DEVELOPING a satisfying relationship with a woman.



Is this some universal truth!! lol ... then I guess gay men are screwed (no pun)

I can't believe you women read this board and cling to this woman's every word like she's God almighty.

What she is saying may be right for her life and maybe many people on this board but it certainly isn't a universal truth. I will call you on that every time because you know I’m right all day. 

Also, please tell me you and your Nigerian husband ended the relationship with what each of you brought into it?

With regards to 1 Corinthians, I admonished everyone to read vs 1-39 in its entirety. Also, I never said the Bible doesn't promote marriage because it does. I made the point that it's all right to choose to be single and the Bible supports that.

Evia, claims you’re damaged if you don't consider marriage which is complete ignorance and is laughable.

One thing the Bible is clearly right about is the enmity between the man and the woman. In particular black men and women it appears will never be on the same page. It was like we were not meant to be.

Anonymous said...

Evia said,

To this bm who keeps asking how marriage benefits him, well, he's a perfect case in point. Sistas, when I was single, I wouldn't be bothered for more than a second with a clueless, underdeveloped man like this.


Since you say I'm underdeveloped let's examine you. If you are such an "evolved" women, why do you despartely need someone (a man) to fulfill yourself? If you're so successful why the need to attach to someone else? This is for all you independent sistas' who first said you don't need a man because you have your MBA or law degree and can take care of yourself (head snap) and now you want a man. Why is that?

caligirl94117 said...

"You all state marriage is such the natural thing to do when even the Bible says it's allright to be single."

You missed an important part, you are o.k. to be single if you have NO SEX or SEXUAL desire. If you have sexual desires, then you are to marry rather than fornicate with women who are not your wife!

"Brotha" please stay single, but only if you can keep it zipped up. If you can't then stop waisting women's time by sleeping with them when you have no honorable intentions toward them. Also, as you quote the Bible, remember Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. you cannot serve both God and Money".

While you avoid marriage and fornicate with women you aren't married to in order to save your precious money, you are not serving God. It's displeasing to his eyes that you violate women who are his creation for your personal satisfaction. He has told you that, now to know the truth and intentionally do otherwise risks your salvation.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

If you are such an "evolved" women, why do you despartely need someone (a man) to fulfill yourself?

This is for all you independent sistas' who first said you don't need a man because you have your MBA or law degree and can take care of yourself (head snap) and now you want a man. Why is that?


Sweetie, most evolved adults understand implicitly that the desire for a stable relationship with a mate and a companion is simply part of a healthy, positively integrated mature personality.

I am sorry that you and other DBRBM don't understand this very basic and nearly universal human characteristic, but it is not our responsibility to make you into a normal human being, and this is not the typical group of BW who will obediently fall into the mammy/nurturer role as soon as another DBRBM and his raft of excuses and complaints shows up and starts demanding attention.

Aphrodite said...

"Sweetie, most evolved adults understand implicitly that the desire for a stable relationship with a mate and a companion is simply part of a healthy, positively integrated mature personality."



I agree anon. You know most of my ww peers are already coupled up.

Evia said...

Anon bm who is clinging to my every word, you apparently are TERRIFIED that these sistas and/or others similar to them won't be interested in you and your ilk. Why? You don't want women like us anyway except for semen receptacles. There are lots of bw and other women who you can get for cheap or free these days to be your receptacle, why are you here reading our every word nitpicking, and pitifully trying to find a hole in what we're saying? It's a lost cause for you. Don't you realize that. These sistas want a commitment.

I'm not with my husband because I need a man to feed me. I want to be with him. However, our children do NEED their dad for emotional and financial involvement in their lives.

And you sound scared sh%tless that some women is going to take your money and leave you po'!! Just keep your pants zipped up and that's go a long way towards keeping that from happening. Or find some kind of woman who gives away freebies like you say your girlfriend does. You should be happy with her. So, why are you here?

Anonymous said...

I date only non-Black men.

And according to Evia, you are a racist, yet she will never call you that because she only directs that ignorant tripe at black men who only date non-black women or light skinned black women.

But you date who you want. I'm married to a black woman who chuckled when I showed her this blog. She and her friends married in their early and mid-20s. So you ladies should speak for yourselves. 53% of black women marry before the age of 30. Those who don't should take a good look at themselves.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe you women read this board and cling to this woman's every word like she's God almighty.

Hey, people followed Jim Jones, didn't they?

Anonymous said...

If you want to hear a common experiene of black men with black women, read this exchage:

http://betboards.bet.com/forums/215367/ShowPost.aspx

Loads of black men have experienced something similar, including Evia's first husband.

Anonymous said...

Here's the rest of the link since it was cut off:

5367/ShowPost.aspx

EmergingPhoenix said...

I'll tell you why he's here. He's here b/c the bulk of women (notice I said bulk, as to acknowledge that some women do not want a committed relationship) who he reports as happily participating in his sexual endeavors, are blithely unaware that they will get no further than a sperm receptacle for his tired butt. These blogs/posts drastically reduce his numbers by waking his chattel up to the fact that he and his kind have no honorable intentions at all. And to make matters worse, they make no apologies for it, and downright despise the chattel that services their loins. Here he is trying to make a point, that he is not damaged, all the while proving that he is.

Ladies who are still confused, take a good look at your prized possession in his finest. He has basically admitted to you that he is a paraniod, damaged, man, that is afraid, you 'tryin'a stiff him for his papers'. LOL!! What's funniest is that he seems to think b/c he came from a nuclear (I hesitate to label it "good", considering the overall product)family, enjoyed and benefited from that family structure, and as a result is able to independently function in society, that somehow exempts him from the DBRbm category. When in fact his kind are the worse. I mean, at least the bm from the broken home, has the excuse that he did not have proper guidance growing up, but what's this fools excuse? Oh wait, I know, it's that "de evil wm", made me do it. LOL!! Your case is the saddest and most pathetic case indeed. I mean you had clear cut examples and directions and you still don't get it. I feel sorry for any child you bring into this world, and any person that child chooses to conduct a relationship with. I have seen the results of your spawn, and it isnt pretty, for either party.

And women take heed, b/c bm like this use their intellect to get over on you, so intelligence is not a gaurantee. KNOW YOUR WORTH! Don't give in to anything less than the ultimate goal. And don't get down on yourself, if you happened to already fall victim to one of these fools. A new day can dawn in your life, when you choose not to accept bs, and open your heart to those willing to fill it with love and devotion.

Oh, and to the earlier person who asked me to provide literature for my assertions, all you have to do is read the testimonies of women who have chosen to courageously share their stories here and on other similar blogs. It doesn't get more apparent than that. You only request specific sources, so you can pick apart the source and discredit them on whatever strawman theory you can come up with. And if you happen to be of the activist variety, then I would have to say it is time to take a break, and get some r&r. B/c apparently the spin you find yourself fighting against, has become your tool against your own people. In your maddening attempt to "save the community", you yourself have become public enemy Number 1, and are doing "de evil wm's" work for him.

EmergingPhoenix said...

"She and her friends married in their early and mid-20s. So you ladies should speak for yourselves. 53% of black women marry before the age of 30. Those who don't should take a good look at themselves."

I have, and I have also taken a look at my friends who have married young (i.e in their early twenties). One friend, married a man while they were both young and immature. He matured into a "man" (boy really) that was easily swayed by his peers. Now my friend is divorced with two kids at the age of 30. What's worse, is this guy was military, and the system that was able to convince him that his black wife wasn't good enough (oddly drugs were good enough for him, though), tried to deny her the spousal benefits she was due. She did however, manage to overcome the decision to deny her benefits, but it did not come without one huge battle, for which he spearheaded...against his own damn children!! *smh* Not to say all young marriages end in disarray, but why enter into such an important union, when you are not mature enough to make the proper sacrifices, or even know what those are? Why subject your potential children to a lifetime of suffering from your mistakes?

Don't let this troll criticize those of us who are/were career minded women who may not even have finished school until our late twenties, early thirties. We focused on making ourselves good, productive women, who could provide for a household in a time when it takes two incomes to live decently, much less raise children. But I guess someone like you wouldn't understand that. In some cultures, namely Indian, a woman accomplishes the highest degree she wants, and only then does she start to be considered for marriage. If she is still in school, traditionally the families will wait for her/him to finish before formally preparing a wedding. But I guess building a strong family the right way, escapes you.

I AM speaking for myself! Directing me to sites, where people talk about their own foibles in relationship, does not speak to my situation. You may want to believe that I am some sort of misguided poor bw, who doesn't know her worth, or who rejects a "good bm" based on stereotype, but that couldn't be further from the truth. If you haven't figured it out yet, most of the women here do not seem easily led, and would therefore not fall victim to "de evil wm's" programming.

Anonymous said...

Don't let this troll criticize those of us who are/were career minded women who may not even have finished school until our late twenties, early thirties.

And don't let this coon criticize those women who married young. Many women continue their education after marriage. You didn't get married early because you either ran off or didn't acknowledge those good men you had half a chance with. LOOK IN THE MIRROR! If you are a 30 year old single black woman still talking about there are no good black men. IT'S YOU!

foreverloyal said...

What happens in a divorce is a separate issue from what we are discussing here.
I totally believe in pre-nups for the protection of all parties.
What I want to know is, if anonymous will never get married and is happy with his path, what is his purpose here? What is he trying to achieve? What does he care who we date and marry?

EmergingPhoenix said...

I meant to add that the site above acually speaks to the perceived mistake of one bw, by her bm ex-lover. Now I ask you, is he really going to paint himself as the villain, if he was or wasn't? I would really like to hear from the woman herself, b/c when I broke up with my last bf, I told people he was a good guy as well (just not for me), when really I felt he was immature, and a host of other things I will not go into. Why? B/c it is worthless, time consuming, mentally draining, and not to mention unsophisticated to go on and on about the shortcomings of your ex. So really her supposed confessions of him being a good guy are a reflection of her character, and say nothing about the man. His actions will speak for themselves as well.

Anonymous said...

What does he care who we date and marry?

Nobody cares who you marry. Just stop trying to justify dating who you date by trashing black men. If makes you seem paranoid about who you date.

Anonymous said...

anon @ 7:56 PM...

I know my post is making some of you sick, so I’ll stop before you throw up. However, it is my opinion. It’s America right? lol


LOL Negro please! The only ones "getting sick" are "brothas" who are damaged beyond repair.

Sick at the thought that growing numbers of BW are getting wise to DBR BM's time wasting shenanigans and moving on to undamaged men who know the value of marriage.

YOU need to get over yourself. I didn't even waste my time reading those links you posted. Because you already showed your true colors.

Growing numbers of BW are wising up and disregarding ANYTHING ya'll have to say. (Or post)

No one has to prove the many well known benefits of marriage to you!LOL

I will say, the fact that you have such a negative view of the institution certainly doesn't say much for your parents marriage.

Obviously you weren't impacted in a positive way, otherwise you wouldn't be so marriage resentment.

My sympathies.

Anonymous said...

Now I ask you, is he really going to paint himself as the villain, if he was or wasn't?

Will the women on this site do the same? Of course not. I would like to hear from the black men that you woman allegedly had such bad experiences with.

Anonymous said...

Pasted From Dictionary.com...

Here is an excerpt:

"A new term has arisen to describe the social phenomenon of the so-called "marriage squeeze" for African American females. The marriage squeeze refers to the belief that the most eligible and desirable African American men are marrying non-African American women, leaving those African American women who wish to marry African American men with fewer partnering options.
According to Newsweek, 43% of black women between the ages of 30-34 have never been married.

Explanation of this phenomenon is threefold. In part it may be due to relatively fewer European American men being willing to marry African American women, as a result of the lingering effects of social ostracism to which past white American men, who have historically pursued relationships with African American women, were heavily subjected. - although today one in five white Americans would seriously consider marrying across the color line nonetheless. It may also be the result of a desire among African American women to marry African American men due to lingering concepts such as racial loyalty, black solidarity, and the internalized stereotypical belief that non-African American men would not find them attractive. In addition, many African American women are socialized to believe that non-African American men are unattractive. Lastly, there is a desire among educated women of all races to "marry up", although rising income for women has lessened this factor. Another confounding factor for African American women may be the disproportionate mortality rate between men and women in the black community: there are only approximately 85 males for every 100 females by the time they reach their child-bearing years"


I hope this helps to strengthen the fact that the need for interracial marriage is real and dire!!

This portion of the dictionary.com piece, I did not have a problem since it seems honest with but some of it. You can read the entire thing on their site but I have to caution about just accepting the entire write up.
I do not agree that we do not find other races attractive blah blah.. but I reckon you can read the whole thing and as a BW decide what makes sense and what is rubbish!

As someone who has been in research for a while...especially to do with social justice etc.. the extent of racism (sometimes subliminal) and the intent of the researcher.. has a lot to do with the findings, figures and conclusions.
Until I participated in some studies, I did not know that the staggering stats released about incaceration of african americans was seriouslyyyy stilted and meant to show that AA's are criminals... Why? because the surveys should have been interpreted alongside education and poverty.. since the poorer a person, the less access they have to good defense.

So the site has some good stuff.. but as always sometimes good ol' jim crow rushes in disguise to the fore. So on dictionary.com read but be cautious with the writers figures and conclusions especially when they are negative.

EmergingPhoenix said...

"And don't let this coon criticize those women who married young. Many women continue their education after marriage. You didn't get married early because you either ran off or didn't acknowledge those good men you had half a chance with. LOOK IN THE MIRROR! If you are a 30 year old single black woman still talking about there are no good black men. IT'S YOU!"

Ha! I can imagine the painted white lips dripping down your chin as I type. LOL!! Please tell me what exactly there is to marriage at a young age? And also, please tell me what type of parents you had that didn't tell you to finish school first before you think about men and marriage. You seem to think I was running around trying to "score me a man", like I am some hard up women with nothing to offer, or nothing else to look forward to. And yes you can continue your education, after marriage, much like you can continue your life after children, or a divorce, etc. Does that make it ideal? Maybe for some, but given a choice, I am sure most people would rather be financially stable before entering into marriage.

@foreverloyal - I used that example as an illustration of some of the downfalls of young marriages, so I am not sure what your problem with it is. I am not trying to introduce a new topic on divorce, I am expanding on the details surrounding that incident, which happen to include divorce.

foreverloyal said...

Nobody cares who you marry. Just stop trying to justify dating who you date by trashing black men. If makes you seem paranoid about who you date.
I don't trash black men and never have. Nah nanny boo boo! LOL.

Phoenix_Sun said...

Ladies do not feed the trolls. They are baiting you for a response and then it becomes a back and forth which leads them to throwing you off.

No matter what you say nothing will satisfy them. I also wonder why are they here. They have already made their arguments, no one agrees with them, so it's time to move on. If some of you men are here to convert or to make these ladies see the "error" of their ways then you'll be waiting forever. You have your own path in life and have made your own personal decisions in it to make you happy. The ladies here are going in a very different direction to make themselves happy.

Leave it alone and go away. You're not going to change anyone's mind here.

Anonymous said...

I had a college degree by the age of 22 and a masters degree by 24. Normal people finish their education in their 20s. Women in their 30s who are not married and still complaining about men are single because of themselves. So if you are single in your 30s, ask yourself what you are doing wrong instead of dancing a jig for white men to justify being single.

foreverloyal said...

@foreverloyal - I used that example as an illustration of some of the downfalls of young marriages, so I am not sure what your problem with it is. I am not trying to introduce a new topic on divorce, I am expanding on the details surrounding that incident, which happen to include divorce.
Emerging Phoenix, I didn't have a problem with anything you wrote. I was addressing anonymous's concerns that marriage is a vehicle for women to rob men of their wealth.

Anonymous said...

Here is an excerp from a study entitled:

The Role of Labor and Marriage Markets, Preference Heterogeneity and the Welfare System in the Life Cycle Decisions of Black, Hispanic and White Women, by Michael P. Keane and Kenneth Wolpin, PIER WP 06-004

"Our estimates reveal that there are important differences among white, black and Hispanic women in their structural parameters. For example, black women value marriage the least and Hispanic women the most, but both of them draw from potential husband’s earnings distributions with lower means than white women."

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/03/the_role_of_lab.html

Anonymous said...

Excuse me Mr. economist quoter. The stats are notoriously fabricated on that site as well as many others.

So whats your point? We are not married cuz we do not want to??
Did you read the anonymous post above about the myraid of reasons that back women do not marry??
Some other stats here say we want to marry but then have to face the odds. Scroll up and be enlightened.

BTW that nonsense about marriage not being important to us is HOGWASH.
Most professional women (of other races)are also waiting later and later to have children.. cuz we CAN and in the cases of those who work in the corp world its even worse cos a woman and a BW at that.. u need to work 10 times as hard.. so most of the time, if you want to get returns on your educational investment, you wait till you are better situated with the benjamins !!

This is why Halima's website is kewl and I hope it motivates women to do something to address this forced singleness and conspiracy to keep us umarried, alone and childless.

At a rate of 85:100 population distribution among AA sexes by child bearing age, not factoring those other dynamics like, who is really available ... and worthwhile. So, we have slim pickin's when it comes to staying with the BM.

The stats say 1 in 5 WM men would like to date outside his rate. AA marry whites more than any other race so that is good.

Also of all the races the most likely to intermarry is the WM-- A hidden fact. Hmm, I wonder why? :)

Ladies, we need to change the numbers to 3 out of five by taking the plunge and being brave. Smile and go for a white man or other race. I am not saying BM are bad but even if your preference is motivated by desire to avoid being ostracized by the community of interrcial haters... its not worth
losing your happiness over. The opinion of bigotted strangers be damned!! Who cares????? You should not.

Go for your dreams, aim for happiness, companionship and all the good stuff.
Try dating white and you will find it is alright! Nice ring huh... :)

Miriam said...

Stuff i've heard:

Usually guys from Holland area LOVE darker toned women

Australians love anybody but other australians (so i've been told)

Then again, Americans are the most accessible.

Anonymous said...

I f he is an analyst on wall street as he claims and has an MBA he and his little buddies more than likely are not with bw so why come to a bf blog and spew negativity. at this point i couldn't see a benefit to a woman married to himso why is he here. as far as his alleged education, we all know educated people deeply in debt and it's interesting to me that the same black men that claim not to want to be sought for their money or education always bring it up as one of their selling points or basis for their opinion yet when women chase them for it their golddiggers.

marriage is about sacrifice and family wanting your kids to grow up toether and under one roof as opposed to in random projetcs or family members house.

Anonymous said...

how is cohabiting being single? did we just go from arguing that cohabiting represented people in relationships to now cohabiting people being single?

doesn't the bible say not to fornicate and to flee lust? how does one explain all the children by multiple mommies and daddies then, biblically since we're all seminary students here? I love the spewing of vitriol accompanied by bible verses. way to win souls.

Evia said...

Sick at the thought that growing numbers of BW are getting wise to DBR BM's time wasting shenanigans and moving on to undamaged men who know the value of marriage.

Yes, these DBRbm are truly shaking in their drawers that bw are waking up. Sometimes, I think I want to stop blogging, but when trolls like this pop up, I get new energy because he shows me how effective that blogs like mine and Halima's have been and are. We need a lot more of us out there writing and spreading the light about this. What if Halima or I were to stop blogging? So many young, unsuspecting bw would be left in the dark for the trolls to devour.

I BEG other bw to start your own blogs encouraging sistas not to be semen receptacles for "men" like this. PLEASE, PLEASE start your blogs and talk about one or more aspects of this issue.

I would bet any amount of money that his girlfriend--if she's typical--is thinking that at some point, he's just going to fall madly in love with her and ask her to marry him. I'm a woman and I KNOW women, so I know this. If she has any smarts, she knows there's nothing in it for her to be a semen receptacle for him for whatever amount of time he wants her. What does she do then? Go on to another DBRbm and become his semen receptacle and another and another? She may as well be a prostitute and make some money at it if this is all that's going to happen. This woman is going to end up as another used, bitter, angry sista at this rate. We know that this is how it usually happens. This is why my 30-year old male cousin says that by the time some bw who have been dating for a while are in their late 20s, they already are bitter and distrusting of bm.

As to the troll's girlfriend not caring about marriage, we all know how so many bw are scared to admit to a bm that she wants to get married because she's afraid he'll run away.

I didn't even waste my time reading those links you posted. Because you already showed your true colors.

I didn't waste my time either.

Growing numbers of BW are wising up and disregarding ANYTHING ya'll have to say. (Or post)

Yeah, one thing for sure they're not saying to bw is: "Will you marry me?"

No one has to prove the many well known benefits of marriage to you!LOL

Yes, these benefits are KNOWN throughout the world and have been known for thousands of years. This is why I said that he's a case of arrested development.

Sistas--STOP being semen receptacles for these creatures!!! Don't fool yourselves. If you're at the age and stage of marriage and ANY man wants sex from you but is not talking to you and SHOWING signs that he wants a long term committed relationship if the relationship works out--KEEP YOUR LEGS CLOSED!!!

Remember that in a courtship with a well-intentioned man, there are other ways to give each other sexual pleasure aside from intercourse. And he will wait. Learn to be sexually creative. This will even enhance the intercourse when you do have it. Intercourse should NOT occur until a certain amount of time has elapsed and after you've gotten to know the man a LOT better in a variety of settings and scenarios. Don't give in to taunts & threats about how bw are too old-fashioned or have too many hangups or how he's going to go find him a white girl! LET HIM GO!

Anonymous said...

lies, damned lies, and statistics.

of all bw 30% are married.

of that number all statistic for marriage flow so even your beloved 53% statistic is out of this relatively small 30%.

regarding your wife, she married you and as we can see your an ass i doubt the friends she chose would be a good sample.

this is another case of because a bm says it he need immediate and utter agreement and obedience to his word. bm need to realize it's not going to work here. you, and not other men, have no use to us.

ladies, ignore them college educated bw have higher rates of sexual and domestic abuse then any other women in this country and 96% are married to or dating bm. let that speak for itself.

or and for the record there are fewer married bm than bw.

Anonymous said...

If there lives are so fulfilling w/out bw why are they here trying to prove stupidity?

this ultimate need for bm to interject themselves in everything to do with bw is disgusting and shows their paranoia at losing control over thier only guaranteed audience and chattel in this country, because you know to them we are not adults so much as wayaward children.

I also wonder why they don't post under their other internet names as opposed to coming here and spewing filth and then going back to their sites and giggling about it. but i guess it's hard to talk empowermetn foor the people and them say this filth about bw.


oh and if you think bw here are calling you to the carpet wait to see what those whites and asians and hispanics do to you when you fukk their daughters over like you do bw. they may have their own problems but letting outsiders run through their neighborhood is not one of them.

Halima said...

The bible told anonymous to be single!

Folks i think i've heared it all now. You cant tell me nothing else! lol!

Aimee said...

I think this thread illustrates one of the biggest stumbling blocks the black community faces: the lack of male leadership. How many times on this blog and others have self-described "good" BM come here to defend their "honor" and to point out that they're not "all" DBR or complain about being "trashed"?

So why is that when a DBRBM openly states that through the blood, sweat, and sacrifice of his ancestors he has enjoyed the opportunity to achieve a certain level of education and employment, and his sole concern in life is making sure that the benefits of that achievement are retained solely by himself, suddenly none of the self-proclaimed "good brothas" are anywhere to be found? Why aren't the "good brothas" confronting this "sellout"? Where are all the mammies who claim to be so committed to "black love"?

As usual, instead of focusing their energies in the ONE area where they could actually do some good--providing guidance and positive role modeling to their many lost brothers--they would rather expiate their rage and frustration with "the man" by attacking and scapegoating BW, yet again.

The bottom line is that most of the BW here either are married or will be, primarily to non-BM. What we ALL have in common is a refusal to make ourselves available as physical and emotional whipping boys for DBRBM. Therefore, why initiate arguments with us about the value of marriage? We understand that value already, and we've either already found men who also understand that value, or WILL.

What the BM who come here seem to want is for us not to address the pink elephant in the room anytime BW have to actively consider IR relationships--WHY are so many BM unsuitable for long-term relationships? "Brothas" consider such discussions to be "trashing" them.

But is it "trashing" BM to point out that they are more marriage-resistant than other men? That they are more likely to be absentee, unsupportive fathers to their children? That they are more likely to be sexually unfaithful, and maintain multiple, simultaneous sexual partners?

Do not many BM view BW as the "enemy" instead of potential partners, and view relationships not as partnerships, but as "warfare," where winning means playing her before she plays you? Would not a rational BW, who has the option to choose a potential mate who is not damaged in this way, choose such a mate?

Real BM leaders would face these realities head on, and address them where they need to be addressed: with DBRBM. They would not be trying to convince US to "come home" and tolerate mistreatment, or travel from Timbuktu to the ends of the earth in search of a BM, any BM. They would not be asking smart, beautiful, accomplished BW to settle for supporting abusive ex-cons or mansharing suit-and-tie "playas."

More and more BW are starting to recognize our OWN interests, and to act in those interests, just like everyone else. BM just need to accept this, instead of fighting a losing battle to convince those of us who have already gotten free to go back to being their unthanked chattel.

foreverloyal said...

Wow Aimee!

Phoenix_Sun said...

More and more BW are starting to recognize our OWN interests, and to act in those interests, just like everyone else. BM just need to accept this, instead of fighting a losing battle to convince those of us who have already gotten free to go back to being their unthanked chattel.

Absolutely! This is why I don't understand them coming on here to drop insults and try to bait us with these pointless debates of who is right and who is wrong. They are not going to change anyone's mind and all the tricks they pull out of their bag that usually silence black women into shame is no longer having the desired effect they have so previously enjoyed.

As so many others have pointed out, this is what's scaring them to death. They're afraid the new programming will spread and reach beyond the confines of Internet blogs. They're merely running scared but hiding behind a lot of smoke and mirrors to cover it up.

Anonymous said...

If you are a 30 year old single black woman still talking about there are no good black men. IT'S YOU!

Really? Then why is it so easy for us to find good Asian, Hispanic and white men? :-)

I would like to hear from the black men that you woman allegedly had such bad experiences with.

From the links you posted it sounds like you already know where to find those men. As a matter of fact, it sounds like you ARE one of those men.

Felicia said...

"They're afraid the new programming will spread and reach beyond the confines of Internet blogs. They're merely running scared but hiding behind a lot of smoke and mirrors to cover it up."

That's it Phoenix_Sun THAT'S IT!

And you know what? This new and GREATLY improved programming (common sense) IS spreading and reaching beyond the confines of Internet blogs.

Spreading like wildire.

And it's LONG overdue.

I'm just happy to see it happening period.

Little by little, one sista at a time...

Anonymous said...

I am amazed at how many bm consider themselves "good" yet have no desire for marriage. What makes them "good" for women?

GoldenAh said...

A lesson from a young black woman on the state of the black family and single motherhood. She's very sharp.

Link is here

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I am amazed at how many bm consider themselves "good" yet have no desire for marriage. What makes them "good" for women?


Where do you get your information that black men don't desire marriage? Research has concluded that the majority of black men desire marriage:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0197-6664%28199504%2944%3A2%3C211%3ABMMSOM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-X&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage

Anonymous said...

I am amazed at how many bm consider themselves "good" yet have no desire for marriage. What makes them "good" for women?

Don't you know? If they haven't murdered anyone, managed to receive their high school diplomas while staying out of jail, ain't drug dealers, and are HIV negative, their considered "catches" in the "community".SMH

Attractive, and accomplished sistas are supposed to feel "lucky" if they can catch one of these "winners".

Everyone knows that the bar for what constitutes a "good black man" is set TOO damn low.

Anonymous said...

Aimee said: "I think this thread illustrates one of the biggest stumbling blocks the black community faces: the lack of male leadership. How many times on this blog and others have self-described "good" BM come here to defend their "honor" and to point out that they're not "all" DBR or complain about being "trashed"?"

The last thing we need are more so-called "black leaders". Black leaders are what got us here in the first place. Their agenda has always been bm first, last and always. The wants, needs, rights of bw hasn't even been an afterthought. Everything about the civil rights movement and everything until the present day has always centered around the plight of the bm. I was semi-watching TVOne this weekend and they showed a commercial for a show they have called "Black Men Revealed" where bm get to unapologetically spew their racio-mysognist garbage over the tv airwaves. Has there been a series entitled "Black Women Revealed"? HELL NO! Again everything centers around bm.

This is why these so called men feel that they have the right to come in here and dictate to us what we should want, need and expect - which 99.999% of the time ain't S&%! This is why they will never confront their brethren who are hateful, cruel, lewd and loud about their hatred of black women. Their brethren will think nothing of spewing their filth to any race, sex, religion or creed of person anytime, anywhere. I guess this amounts to there being honor among thieves and whores. Yet let bw merely be talking among themselves and not necessarily airing dirty filthy laundry to the other races and you would think we were ushering in the apocalypse.

What we need are black female womanists to lead an agenda for, by and about BW. In short, our own damn movement. We need to stop hitching our star to black men's 3 wheeled wagon. Because the truth of the matter is when they get to where they think that american dream is = wealth, money and fame -they throw bw off the wagon, replace the 3 wheeled wagon with a luxury vehicle and put some non-black women in the passenger seat.

And I am absolutely loving the fact that this troll is quoting the bible. Halima, you must have really hit where it hurts with this latest blogs. Usually they come in here with a whole host of stats, now here they come quoting the Good Book. I guess when the stats fail, they have to start quoting scripture. They do so that pray and the bible is the last bastion of hope. These fools must be running out of ammo to be hiding behind the bible. Funny because they must only read the portions that serve their needs because last time I checked the bible did not condone sex outside marriage, baby mamma drama and playerism that runs rampant in the "black community." Because unless he is living a celibate life he better not fix his fingers over a keyboard to type passages of scripture that supports singehood. He betta try that crap with those chicken and dumpling eating mammies at Sunday service at the 1st Abernathy Baptist Tabernacle Church of the Divine Prophets Santified Religious Adventist Church of Later Day Saints of Jesus Christ. Not here.

-Prettyislandgirl

Anonymous said...

Really? Then why is it so easy for us to find good Asian, Hispanic and white men? :-)

The fact that 96% of married African American women are married to black men and black men make up only 12% of the male population in America doesn't support your statement. If every black man in America disappeared, around 1% of black women would be married.

Aimee said...

The last thing we need are more so-called "black leaders". Black leaders are what got us here in the first place. Their agenda has always been bm first, last and always.

I agree with you that the last thing we need are more "so-called" black leaders--that was exactly the point I was making: that the lack of real leadership--in our homes, our schools, our churches and other institutions--is what has lead so many BM to be DBR in the first place, and keeps BM who insist that they aren't DBR from addressing the one's who clearly are.

And I do not in any way, shape or form advocate BW "hitching their wagon" to anyone else's star. Again--I was only pointing out why things have evolved the way that they have, not stating that BW should ride in and save the day. We are saving our own day, as we should. BM need to save their own day, and they can start doing that by confronting all the lost, dysfunctional DBRBM who need guidance. We can't save them, and it isn't our responsibility to do so.

Anonymous said...

"They're afraid the new programming will spread and reach beyond the confines of Internet blogs. They're merely running scared but hiding behind a lot of smoke and mirrors to cover it up."


That is it in a nutshell. We saw hints of that paranoia when that film "Something New" was released. I saw so many bm trolls getting into a tizzy when that movie was released you would have thought that they were releasing a remake version of "Birth of A Nation." They breathed a collective sigh of relief when it apparently didn't do that well at the box office and they were assured that their lives of abundant va-jay-jay would continue uninterrupted and unabated. They thought that they would continue to enjoy their overinflated stock value among non-black women. But that films effects is like a ripple in the water which is leading to a tidal wave of category 5 proportions. BW are just tired of all the BS. Tired of the game playing and the degradation. What is even more pathetic, sad yet incredibly eye-opening for black women is that DBR BM treat their sworn enemy "da evil wm" and his women with more respect and deference then they treat the women who raised them and do battle on their behalf - black women. I used to abhor trolls but now I see that they serve a purpose to enlighten bw who are still in the dark. I love when the question is asked as to where are all these concerned bm trolls when DBR bm are attacking bw. Day after day and post after post, they all seem to not want to respond to that inquiry with a ten foot pole. To this day, I don't believe anyone has even addressed or even tried to answer this question. That just goes to show how full of BS these fools are.

Keep it coming boys, you are just proving our case for us.

Anonymous said...

If every black man in America disappeared, around 1% of black women would be married.

Or perhaps BW would finally wake up realize that they need to be looking elsewhere for potential mates. :-)

Anonymous said...

Regarding marriage rates, we must look take a look at a particular factor, among others. For instance, 50% of black women are obese compared to 30% of white women.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-10-08-weight-usat_x.htm

Also from:

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/April97/marriage.obesity.ssl.html

"Men had less tolerance for overweight partners than did women, consistently reporting less comfort in dating overweight people," the authors wrote."

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p109057_index.html

"Obese people have fewer dating opportunities, marry later and marry less desirable partners."

"The results show that obesity only creates difficult for the obese to enter into marriage thus the obese have lower first marriage rate."

Consider that 50% of black women are obese while 30% of white women are obese.

Now consider that 70% of black women are single while 45% of white women are single.

Very strong correlation.

Lets go further. 77% of black women are simply overweight (including but not limited to obese black women), compared to 57% of white women being overweight.

Also, Asian women, who are less likely to be overweight than both black and white women have higher marriage rates than both. Hispanic women, who fall between black and white women with regards to being overweight, have a marriage rate that falls between black and white women.

So there is evidence of a strong correlation between weight and marriage rates. Of course, it is not the only correlation, but I think that it is strong.

Anonymous said...

Or perhaps BW would finally wake up realize that they need to be looking elsewhere for potential mates. :-)

The disappearance of all black men would naturally force this, but such a need really doesn't exist in the real world despite the proclamations that it does. If African American women overwhelmingly sought black men who were good for them, marriage rates would jump. But the reality is that there is an overwhelming tendency for black women to seek out what is good TO them while ignoring what is good FOR them. Other women do this, yet to a much lesser extent than black women.

Here is a write-up discussing this:

http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/2006/06/why-are-women-attracted-to-thugs.html

Anonymous said...

There should be a "/" after ".com" in the link (I don't know why it doesn't appear).

Anonymous said...

If African American women overwhelmingly sought black men who were good for them, marriage rates would jump. But the reality is that there is an overwhelming tendency for black women to seek out what is good TO them while ignoring what is good FOR them.

Then you should be happy this site exists--to encourage as many BW as possible to seek out what is good FOR them, and to avoid what is bad FOR them: DBRBM. Thank you so much for your support! :-)

Anonymous said...

to encourage as many BW as possible to seek out what is good FOR them, and to avoid what is bad FOR them: DBRBM.

I support this. If black women at least only sought out non-damaged black men, the marriage rate gap between blacks in and whites would AT LEAST close.

Halima said...

So why is that when a DBRBM openly states that through the blood, sweat, and sacrifice of his ancestors he has enjoyed the opportunity to achieve a certain level of education and employment, and his sole concern in life is making sure that the benefits of that achievement are retained solely by himself, suddenly none of the self-proclaimed "good brothas" are anywhere to be found? Why aren't the "good brothas" confronting this "sellout"? Where are all the mammies who claim to be so committed to "black love"?

The truth is that it is the deep selfish and self-centredness of bm that has put the nails in the coffin of the black community.

Nothing but the selfish core of bm, has left the community in ruins. yes the same selfishess displayed by wall-street anonymous who will hopefully be buried with his 'wealth'.

Indeed it is extreme selfishess that is the root of bm abandoning their children , in poverty at 70% oow rate, nothing else. Same selfishness is behind men fighting to deny their baby mamas and thus their own children a livelihood!

Evia said...

But the reality is that there is an overwhelming tendency for black women to seek out what is good TO them while ignoring what is good FOR them. Other women do this, yet to a much lesser extent than black women.

The SAME goes for black men and this is why so many bm make the same mistake over and over of constantly searching for a thin "dime" who might be expensive to maintain and thus gets the label of 'golddigga.'

This is especially true of some of those bm who claim they can't find a good bw despite the SURPLUS OF QUALITY BW.

So make sure you're giving those bm this SAME advice. Maybe this would keep them from bashing bw after they've been cleaned out by a "dime." There are many wholesome sistas that would be good FOR those men--sistas who are good cooks, good mother material, loving wife material,and would maintain a wonderful home life for these men, but many bm pass them by every day and say they have no choice but to get them a ww because bw don't know how to be good mates.LOL!

When I strongly advise sistas to lose weight, I emphasize the physical and emotional health angle. I certainly wouldn't even hint that they'd be able to get a bm if they lost a bunch of weight. A DBRbm has become a penalty in the eyes of many used and abused sistas of all sizes, not a reward.

As a matter of fact, the weight even protects many sistas from some of the predators around them (just like with Oprah) and this is why SOME bw keep that weight on. The black "men" in the community definitely don't protect them from the predators.

The fact also is that many bm would still discriminate against these sistas if they are darkskinned with certain west African features despite the weight loss.

DBRbm have too many self-hate issues that stem from their feelings of powerlessness, therefore they constantly project their stuff onto other people--either de evil wm or now--the "overweight" bw. LOL! DBRbm need to take responsibility for their own crap,and clean it up, but won't do it and this is why I advise sistas to totally block them out and MOVE ON!

Bm need to stop focusing on women, sex, playing ball, and music, and instead figure out how to get along with each other so that they can start businesses and gain control of something. Black women are not a commodity that bm can control--anymore. Bm are not equipping themselves to "pay the cost to be the boss" as that song goes, so they need to leave bw alone.

Halima said...

^^^
And to add
if bw are choosing thugs then it is because the commuity is awash with thugs, it can be nothing else!

i am not trying to be funny here but consider that as many as 1 in 3 bm of a certain age has a jail record. Yet folks want us to believe that there are all these 'good guys' hanging aroud because they are being rejected for thugs! No the thugs are the pool available to bw, they constituet a significant proportion of the bm population.

sorry folks but jail records, school drop out rates, unemploymet stats strongly suggest that any bw choosing from the bm pool has a 1 in 3 chance of picking a thug.

so its only logical
High density of thuggish males in any community=High selection of thuggish males for the females.

It cant be avoided if bw stick to the paradigm of bm only!

woman.for.all.seasons said...

Having laffed out loud at the crassness of Anonymous @ 7.56pm who said...
"Sorry, I don't have kids and don't plan on having children OOW

If I did have children I would take great care of them like my father took care of me and my brother.

I guess I'm a DBR BM because I won't marry a black woman or any woman for that matter. lol

I've made my choice and I get chastisement from scorned women such as yourselves.

I don't know why you all have to try and convince the world that marriage is the only way to go.

I'm currently dating a young black lady but she understands upfront what my long-term expectations are.
She has her assets she wants to protect as well.

With regards to prostitutes I was speaking hypothetically. I will never have to pay for sex. In fact a day doesn't go by in which some women black or white doesn't show interest in me.

I know my post is making some of you sick, so I’ll stop before you throw up. However, it is my opinion. It’s America right? lol"


I just had one thing to say: 2+2 = ? (only one correct obvious answer). so if you don't get it (marriage) then go find the answer elsewhere. We really don't care what you think/believe. Really.

And as for not ever paying for s&x - wait - don't speak to soon, you may have to...when your current girlfriend the 'black lady' wises up when she sees what you posted here, and realises that she'll NEVER get committment from you even though she may well get OOW babies for her time & trouble...you may end up spending cash on s&x, in b/w each of your future girlfriends / babymamas-to-be (as they begin to discover this and Evia's and similar IR blogs for BW) and then they make an educated decision about men/marriage...well hey, "It’s America right?" ROTFL!

Whoops! your worst fear? my bad!!
still ROTFL!

woman.for.all.seasons said...

re Anonymous post @ 4.14AM:
"And don't let this coon criticize those women who married young. Many women continue their education after marriage. You didn't get married early because you either ran off or didn't acknowledge those good men you had half a chance with. LOOK IN THE MIRROR! If you are a 30 year old single black woman still talking about there are no good black men. IT'S YOU!"

oh well..you sure told us BW age 30+ off now...so we better stop educating our emotional bank on the issue of IR dating via this and similar blogs.
Boo-hoo, we better 'blame' ourselves for placing aspirations and achievements over and above early marriage...we should go look in the mirror, after all we're BW so we're sure to find something wrong...early marriage is the solution, yes?

Thanks again you've inadvertently helped convince some of us even more of what we need to be looking out for and what to avoid at all costs

Clarice said...

SMH

"With the equal rights movement, women have emasculated the man's traditional role."

Not sure which makes me SMH more.

Anonymous said...
"With the equal rights movement, women have emasculated the man's traditional role."

The dictionary defines emasculate as "deprive of strength or vigor" no one has deprived men of their strength or vigor men have given up - decided to take the easy way out and shirk their responsibilities - do what works for them rather than what takes work - favored short term gains over long term results. A man is not emasculated by a woman. Healthy people know that strength begets strength and strength supports strength. Men and women have different strengths but they balance each other out. DBR men have failed to maintain themselves and do their part women have shouldered more of the burden - mammies to the point of self destruction - healthy women have shoulder only that which they need to - for their children and themselves and take care to replenish themselves and say NO to unreasonable demands or enabling others. DBR men have just stop trying, challenging themselves to do more or be more than just a drain on the world around them.


Equal rights just ensured women were recognized and compensated (albeit not equitably or fairly .70 cents on the dollar for what men earn) for what they have always done which is to do what needs to be done because no one else was doing it.Equal rights also ensured a woman's right to say no and set limits was legalized - no to doing more than her fair share, no to not being compensated and/or recognized for doing what needs to be done.


Anonymous said...
"Oh and as far as marriage, bw have the least to lose and the most to gain"

the most to gain - yeah right (NOT)

Another mouth to feed and support on her health plan, housework for at least two supposedly able bodied people. A worn out, played out playa who is tired of the game - probably has several baby mammas and drama.

Anonymous said... "It's interesting that they all want to get married at 45 or later when average life span for a black male is like 56 -65. So any children they have then more than likely will have a unhealthy old father and his wife will have some old deteriorating old man."

According to the article "Marriage is for white people - "Moreover, in an era of brothers on the "down low," the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and the decline of the stable blue-collar jobs that black men used to hold, linking one's fate to a man makes marriage a risky business for a black woman. As men mature, and begin to recognize the benefits of having a roost and roots (and to feel the consequences of their risky bachelor behavior), they are more willing to marry and settle down. Moreover "taking care of their husbands feels like having an additional child to raise. Then there's the fact that marriage apparently can be hazardous to the health of black women. A recent study by the Institute for American Values, a nonpartisan think tank in New York City, indicates that married African American women are less healthy than their single sisters."

Marriage is a high risk propositon for women and should be entered with extreme care, deliberation and caution. A woman has to choose wisely and well. A wise single woman, well educated and well employed - can travel, own property, invest and live life on her own terms, has a circle of friends and disposable income that can provide for her in her old age. A man needs to step up and bring character, caring, quality, respect and responsibility to the table or he is not a good - suitable match for a healthy woman.

Quoting the article again "if marriage is to flourish -- in black or white America -- it will have to offer an individual woman something more than a business alliance, a panacea for what ails the community, or an incubator for rearing children. As one woman said, "If it weren't for the intangibles, the allure of the lovey-dovey stuff, I wouldn't have gotten married. The benefits of marriage are his character and his caring."


To Anonymous said...6:50 PM I for one am glad the attorney called you out and even happier that you know that marriage has no benefit for you and is not right for you - hopefully you will then stay away from it and women who want it and save the world at large more baby mammas and unwed children


Thankfully women here have heard the wake up call and are moving on cultivating those skills that allow them to maintain themselves and prosper.Settling for less sends a message that it is okay to disrespect you and your children. It is about respect - respect yourself enough to demand respect and refuse to settle for less.

V/r

Clarice

woman.for.all.seasons said...

re Anonymous posted at 4.56AM:
I had a college degree by the age of 22 and a masters degree by 24. Normal people finish their education in their 20s. Women in their 30s who are not married and still complaining about men are single because of themselves. So if you are single in your 30s, ask yourself what you are doing wrong instead of dancing a jig for white, men to justify being single..."

You didnt tell us what career / business you've built with your excellent qualifications? SMH. Nor did you share how your husband of (I'm guessing) over 10years still shows you how he loves you truly? Nor did you share why you trust him so much? Hmm.

And I hope what you said stridently here is what you say to those abnormal BW (esp darker BW) achievers who are single and over-30 within your circle of family & friends *sarcasm* See what happens when you tell them "Hey it's your fault being single still and you're over 30, you should have been like me..." SMH

Um, BTW why did you seek out this blog? You think you can bully us out of what we're thinking and doing??

caligirl94117 said...

Hey Anon @ 9:52 p.m. If you're going to tell a story, tell the whole story about obesity in the black community. It could be argued that no woman wants a fat man either. You forgot something:

African-American men were more likely to be obese than white men: 44% vs. 33%.

African-American women were more likely to be obese than white women: 37% vs. 27%.

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20041213/fitness-problem-for-african-americans

Anonymous said...

Black women should open up their options. There are plenty of attractive/successful White, Asian, etc men out there. What's the point in trying to look for one good Black one?

Anonymous said...

This is what the power of the blog can do ... click the link to the breaking news from the NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-TV-Hot-Ghetto-Mess.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Phoenix_Sun said...

I received this in my email inbox today from blackweekly.com. This picnic event takes place in Los Angeles dealing with Black Love:

"Each summer Blackweekly.com host a monthly Girlfriends' (and Guyfrineds) picnic/gathering . This Sunday, July 29th, we invite all of our online Girlfriends and conscious brothas to join us for another special indoor "Love & Relationships" picnic and group discussion at Savoy Entertainment Center."

"Topic: "UNBREAKABLE" BET's season premiere of "Meet The Faith".

Is Black America giving marriage the boot? Are sisters scaring men away by being too desperate? Does closing the candy shop really work? Why are we divorcing at such phenomenal rates? Is dating outside the race a realistic option for Black women? Is it more acceptable for a man to cheat? If a married woman cheats, is she a "who_e?". The manager of the Harlem Club tells what he thinks about sistas and marriage. Read More. Also Read comments posted on BET.com's Forum

I immediately unsubscribed to blackweekly email newsletter after reading this garbage. Are black women too desperate? God forbid a black woman wanting the same basic decency and standards for human companionship like everyone else. We are so use to blaming black women for the ills within the black family that is has become an unchallenged knee jerk reaction!

Plus they're bringing that scum bag from the Harlem Club to speak about black women and marriage. Lord knows what this snake will have to say. I doubt they will have anything positive to say about the interracial option since they have only one BM speaking at the event, so far they have not mentioned any BW speakers.

The fact that they're even touching on BW being involved in IRR means the message is starting to seep into black communities of black women's options and now people feel the need to hold summits. LOL! What are the women over at blackweekly thinking?

Anonymous said...

The fact that they're even touching on BW being involved in IRR means the message is starting to seep into black communities of black women's options and now people feel the need to hold summits. LOL! What are the women over at blackweekly thinking?

LOL I'm crying here. It's sick isn't it?!SMH

"Option". Dating and marrying OUT to non damaged, loving, finically secure and family oriented WM and other non BM should be the FIRST (and in most cases only) "option" an attractive, intelligent BW should even be considering these days.

blackweekly is obviously full of sh*t.

Trvlrgrl said...

When I read the comments of some of the "good" black men and the co-dependent black women I just have to laugh.

Most laughable is this notion that any woman over 30 who's still single must blame herself. This is so ludicrous as to defy rationality.

But what really interests me is why do these folks come here and post these comments? Clearly if everything was so yippy skippy in your world-o-happiness you wouldn't be spending time posting your negativity on a blog that has absolutely nothing to do with you. You'd be off being coupled and happy....wouldn't you?

I think what's really going on is either 1) folks are lying or delusional about their own circumstances (e.g. the good black man with the girlfriend who "understands" he'll never marry her or father her children. or 2) folks are trying to justify to themselves why they've made certain life choices (e.g. settled or grabbed the first thing black and male that showed up)

I can't tell you how many of my black female friends, married to bms who have not risen to the occassion, have pulled me aside and said they would NEVER marry their husbands again. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of these women married in their twenties.

I've also found that those married and coupled folks who yelp the loudest about how horrible it is for single women to wait for the right mate are the least happy in their own relationships.

Basically, I think alot of these folks are using this blog to deal with their own psychological issues rather than a counselor's couch. Please do us all a favor and just plunk down some duckets and go see a counselor. We really can't help you.

jacque said...

I have a question. ...again
Why do bm post to this blog when they obviously do not or CAN NOT identify with the discussions?
What is the point?

What do they hope to accomplish...to bring us into the mammy fold?

To absolve the bm collective?

To defend themselves?

Do they want us to apologize for being heretics?
What's the deal?

Anonymous said...

30% of ww is numerically a bigger number than 50% of bw, since there are more ww than bw.

i love the lack on statistics of bm, being overweight or "unattractive" is the least of their problems. if all these number crunchers crunched some other numbers maybe they could rescue their brothers from the pit of nothingness, but it's easier to call bw out for all sorts of real and imaginary flaws than tell raheem and jamal to get a fukking job, take care of their kids, and be adult.

black people could care less about bw. so all this concern now that more bw are starting to flip the script is so transparent as nothing more than a ploy for the dollars and labor. because as we can see even when bm have money, they suddenly become more than their race and remove themselves from black people. if black women leave and take care of themselves first, blacks would be up sh*ts creek without a paddle. it reminds me of how people often become more valuable after their dead.

Anonymous said...

besides, bm need to shut up with the overweight and ugly comments. we've seen your white wives and girlfriends and judging by alot of them to many of you bm, anything white == automatically beautiful. so to harp on bw looks when many of you are walking around with fugs of another kind is hypocritical and simple.

Anonymous said...

How would you women feel if a man lost his job and couldn't find work in his field? What if he proposed to stay at home and watch the kids while you a (professional woman) go out and be the bread winner?

Does the male have to have a better job? If not is there a bottom limit to what he has to earn?

caligirl94117 said...

A man should earn what he needs to live on. If he can't live within his means, borrows, and abuses credit rather than making smart choices with what he's got, then I'm out. I don't care about houses, Escalades, or other material things, but I do care that he owns what he can afford. I want a man who is realistic and smart with what he has. If he can afford his own place to live, and a decent mode of transit, and does not ask me for anything, then we're alright.

If my HUSBAND (not a shack up man) is out of work and must take what he can to make ends meet, then we'll both be working and managing what we have. I'll be honest. We can BOTH work, but I will NEVER become the man in my marriage. Life is too expensive to live on one income with kids. We'll also have to work toward the end of this moment's troubles (meaning he'll keep looking until he finds another decent job).

Anonymous said...

Ok, concerning black men and weight:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/1/1

”When consideration of obesity prevalence is expanded to include men and other ethnic minority populations, a similar finding of excess obesity is noted in men and women in other minority groups, but not in black men (3).”

"This is at least consistent with the findings of a substantial number of studies reporting lower resting energy expenditure in black than in white females of various ages and weights and with the epidemiologic finding that black men are not more obese than white men."


http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2190031

"Weight change was calculated as the difference between weight at the baseline examination and self-reported weight at age 25. White men gained a mean of 9.7 kg; black men, 10.1 kg; white women, 12.0 kg; and black women, 20.8 kg."

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=6478

"For white men, average BMI [body fat mearsurement] was 18.1 in childhood and 27.7 in adulthood. For white women, BMI was 18.2 in childhood and 26.1 in adulthood. Average BMI for black men was 17.7 in childhood and 27.4 in adulthood. For black women, BMI was 18.7 in childhood and 29.8 as adults."

So three scientific studies have concluded that black men and white men are nearly identical with regard to weight gain. Black women clearly exceed white women with regard to weight gain.

caligirl94117 said...

P.S., he should match my earnings.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
besides, bm need to shut up with the overweight and ugly comments.


No one here has called black women ugly.

Anonymous said...

"black people could care less about bw. so all this concern now that more bw are starting to flip the script is so transparent as nothing more than a ploy for the dollars and labor. because as we can see even when bm have money, they suddenly become more than their race and remove themselves from black people. if black women leave and take care of themselves first, blacks would be up sh*ts creek without a paddle. it reminds me of how people often become more valuable after their dead."

Right. RIGHT! And that's why it's SO encouraging to know more and more BW are leaving and taking care of themselves first and foremost. Screwing "race", and instead concentrating on developing healthy, loving, non exploitative relationships with WM and others, and letting these bloodsucking "brothas" AND their mammy supporters DROWN.

A "community" that is incapable of continuance without the sole thankless servitude of it's female members isn't worth "saving".

And CERTAINLY not worth saving by it's victims.

More and more quality sistas are rising to the top like cream leaving the sediments to fall to the bottom.

That's as it should be because in THIS world it's about - and ONLY about - survival of the fittest.

The sooner more BW realize this truth the better. And the sooner that happens, this embarrassingly low number of 30% will rise.

Here's to more script flipping.

foreverloyal said...

lol @ "yippy skippy" and "fugs of another kind".
I once told my brother that he knows I don't care if he wants to bring a white girl around, but that he's an attractive, good guy and shouldn't feel like he needs to settle for an overweight and unattractive one. Lol.

LGR said...

Well, I think the whole weight issue crosses racial lines.. when you are heavier, thanks largely to the media, you are automatically classified as less attractive.
True of false many do believe that about themselves and it negatively impacts self whorth as a whole.

I think that for purposes of our health and well being, it behooves BW to get on the health train.

Honestly, when dating out there, I find that feeling very very good about yourself or that you are at least really trying to feel and look your best gets you the best fed horse. haha JK. Seriously, tho... I mean it gets you larger pickings.

On another note, I am delighted that the "Hot ghetto mess issue" was taken on and brought to its knees by a blogger. Much Rispikt. Yah man!!
It means these bogs are actually chipping away at something. And for the BW and her views and previous positions on interracial intermarriage, it appears, ARE CHANGING!!!! I am a little worried about how we can let the other races know that we now see them.
Whats da plan?

Best wishes H.

LGR

-Avid Reader said...

The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies
Kay S. Hymowitz

( http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_3_black_family.html )

Read through the megazillion words on class, income mobility, and poverty in the recent New York Times series “Class Matters” and you still won’t grasp two of the most basic truths on the subject: 1. entrenched, multigenerational poverty is largely black; and 2. it is intricately intertwined with the collapse of the nuclear family in the inner city.

By now, these facts shouldn’t be hard to grasp. Almost 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers. Those mothers are far more likely than married mothers to be poor, even after a post-welfare-reform decline in child poverty. They are also more likely to pass that poverty on to their children. Sophisticates often try to dodge the implications of this bleak reality by shrugging that single motherhood is an inescapable fact of modern life, affecting everyone from the bobo Murphy Browns to the ghetto “baby mamas.” Not so; it is a largely low-income—and disproportionately black—phenomenon. The vast majority of higher-income women wait to have their children until they are married. The truth is that we are now a two-family nation, separate and unequal—one thriving and intact, and the other struggling, broken, and far too often African-American.

So why does the Times, like so many who rail against inequality, fall silent on the relation between poverty and single-parent families? To answer that question—and to continue the confrontation with facts that Americans still prefer not to mention in polite company—you have to go back exactly 40 years. That was when a resounding cry of outrage echoed throughout Washington and the civil rights movement in reaction to Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s Department of Labor report warning that the ghetto family was in disarray. Entitled “The Negro Family: The Case for National Action,” the prophetic report prompted civil rights leaders, academics, politicians, and pundits to make a momentous—and, as time has shown, tragically wrong—decision about how to frame the national discussion about poverty.

Anonymous said...

"black people could care less about bw. so all this concern now that more bw are starting to flip the script is so transparent as nothing more than a ploy for the dollars and labor. because as we can see even when bm have money, they suddenly become more than their race and remove themselves from black people. if black women leave and take care of themselves first, blacks would be up sh*ts creek without a paddle. it reminds me of how people often become more valuable after their dead."

This is weird post. You act as if there are numerous genders of black people. There are only two and black females make up the larger of the two. So when you say that the black community doesn't care about bw, you are in essence saying that bw don't care about themselves.

You say that if black women take care of themselves first, blacks would be up the creek. Are not black women black? Are not black women the larger of the two genders of black people? How can black women "leave" the black community unless they somehow leave out of their own black skins and have white children? And if black women improve themselves and are the largest of the two genders, wouldn't that amount to improving the black community? I mean, your statement is like me saying that if I improve my circulation, my heart will be up the creek.

If black women improve, black men will improve and vis versa. Black women improving will reduce the number of black children born our of wedlock. Black women choosing only quality men will motivate more black men to be quality. Black women will likewise improve as the result of black men improving. But one gender improving will not be to the detriment of the other. That's a silly notion and clearly a notion based on some weird revenge fantasy.

Evia said...

So why does the Times, like so many who rail against inequality, fall silent on the relation between poverty and single-parent families? To answer that question—and to continue the confrontation with facts that Americans still prefer not to mention in polite company—you have to go back exactly 40 years. That was when a resounding cry of outrage echoed throughout Washington and the civil rights movement in reaction to Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s Department of Labor report warning that the ghetto family was in disarray. Entitled “The Negro Family: The Case for National Action,” the prophetic report prompted civil rights leaders, academics, politicians, and pundits to make a momentous—and, as time has shown, tragically wrong—decision about how to frame the national discussion about poverty.

This is it!!! This needs to be FRAMED,PUT ON CARDS AND HANDED OUT AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO EVERY BLACK WOMAN!!

Daniel Patrick Moynihan was demonized at the time as de evil white man and now some of those black folks who ripped him realize how totally RIGHT he was!!

For bw, this can be reduced to:

Unmarried black mother=POVERTY

We need simple messages like this to re-educate bw and we can stick a website on the card where they can go to get more info re the simple message. We need to start in every black community just handing out cards like this one to black women. I'm going to actually start doing this.

Now I can just hear many black folks trying to point to the exceptions to that message, but the above IS THE RULE. Case closed.

Some of us who can--MUST start doing whatever we can comfortably do to spread this message. Happily, I'm hearing from more and more sistas starting blogs with the message to broaden options to include nonblack men.

This ball is rolling, so let's keep the momentum going!!! If you can't actually do anything due to time or other constaints, then post on every blog or website you can and send folks to Halima's blog or my blog.

Anonymous said...

Regarding "Hot Ghetto Mess", if you want to address this with Reginald Hudlin, who is the President of Entertainment for BET and the man who decides on BET's content, there is a discussion on his message board about this. He has given a couple of responses in the thread:

http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/index.php?topic=2220.0

Anonymous said...

Also, the title of the show has changed to "We Got to Do Better".

Halima said...

This is weird post. You act as if there are numerous genders of black people. There are only two and black females make up the larger of the two. So when you say that the black community doesn't care about bw, you are in essence saying that bw don't care about themselves.

There is nothing weird about her post, it is very clear to me and yes she does recognise that bw are and can be easily turned against their own inteerst, its nothing new and is same dynamic as the phenomenum referred to as false consciousness, by marxs. Bm are prioritised within community rhetoric and practice, this causes bw to strive to advance bm even at their own expense. what is confusing about that?


if bw as a group take care of their own specific needs eg their relationship ambitions irrespective of bm, they can move further along than if they carry bm and every other concern along with them. At least they will force bm to begin to share equally any joint repsonsibility!

wether bm decide they will want to up their numbers in education rather than in jail or take up paid employment etc is indeed something they need to decide for themselves and not something bw need take responsbility for. simple!

and I dont know why folks come here thinking we dont have any depth to our reasoning and that they can throw us off with their one layered argument.

havent you folks clued up by now!

Evia said...

you are in essence saying that bw don't care about themselves.

EXACTLY!! You're finally getting it. LOL!! BW show by their thoughts and actions EVERYDAY that they don't care about themselves FIRST AND FOREMOST! Bw tend to be self-sacrificing mammies. This is exactly what we've been saying!!


Black women choosing only quality men will motivate more black men to be quality.

This is EXACTLY why I encourage bw to broaden their dating and marriage options to include ALL men in the global village because they can then greatly improve the quality of men who they marry and produce children with. Some of us ordinary bw have done this so we've proven it can be done.

Ms CPA said...

I had to laugh when I read about the Black Love and Relationships summit that will take place in LA this weekend. The insulting questions and the fact that the manager of the Harlem Club will give his views on bw and marriage tell me that bw should not bother listening to this garbage. Bw would be better off picketing the event with "Stand Up for Black Women," "Who Needs Black Men?" and "Black Women For White Men" signs.

Halima said...

ms cpa

that would be a very good idea, to let those folks know tht bw have had enough of the taunting and mocking over relationships which is done at their expense. indeed what else but mocking is going on when folks bring in the manager of harlem club to talk about marriage!

Bw are aparently nothing in these folks eyes that they can so insult us! they feel that they can kick us around and do whatever, we will still be the loyal bw chained down by our devotion to the race.

someone needs to send those folks a memo that the drum beat has changed and while they are busy laughing at bw's plight a new breed of bw emerges.

Clarice said...

1:34 PM Anonymous said... If black women improve, black men will improve and vis versa. -

The preceding announcement was brought to you by keep hope alive - doing the same thing and hoping for different results foundation aka Dream on Delusional One aka Mammies R US DBR R We.

Keep drinking the Kool Aid if you want to. DBR people only leech more when those around them improve unless those around them refuse to cooperate and tell the DBR to get behind me - better yet get to stepping and get your own! Show me improved BM improving BW and then talk to me other wise - dream on - keep lying to yourself if it makes you feel better. BW improving means focusing on themselves and their agenda and letting - forcing DBR BM to get it together

How can BW leave? Simple -1) refuse to be disrespected, 2) refuse to do for someone else what they won't and don't do for themselves, 3) by doing what is in her own best interest first, foremost and always, 4) Putting her dollars, intelligence, emotional, spiritual and financial energy and sweat equity into activities that promote her health, wealth, interests and peace of mind to create a quality life for herself and her children (present and future). 5) Not supporting those that do not support her healthy objective - shutting the purse strings, lock the bedroom door, kitchen is closed, skirts down - head up and eyes on the prize, keep her head in the books and the DBR men and women out of her life. 6) Refusing to accept anything less than the best or being disrespected by anyone, anywhere for any reason regardless of situation or circumstance.

A woman starts doing that and see how fast she finds her self on her own because DBR individuals will run like rats, vermin, roaches and other creepy crawling critters when the lights come on! People will either rise to the standard of expectations set or not and if they do not then move on. The color of the person remains unchanged but the standards for quality change and that sets it off.

It would be interesting to see a film or an experiment if all BW for a month stopped doing anything other than taking care of themselves, and handling "their business" w/out exception, no half stepping - how much would not get done. There was a movie in LA about what if all the Mexican/Latin/Hispanics went away and the impact. Dollars left the community, jobs went undone paid and unpaid, it rocked the city. Imagine BW the nation over saying not just no but Hell no the status quo has got to go! Taking back their lives and themselves and never looking back! Talk about a power shift :)

V/r

Clarice

Halima said...

The preceding announcement was brought to you by keep hope alive - doing the same thing and hoping for different results foundation aka Dream on Delusional One aka Mammies R US DBR R We.

lol lol lol!

Anonymous said...

I disagree about black women being "self-sacrificing mammies". I do agree that many black women don't seem to care about themselves, but I can expand and say that black people often don't seem to care about themselves. Just like black men, black women seem to be self-destructive. Being self-sacrificing is not the same as being self-destructive. Loved ones should sacrifice for one another. I place my wife's well being above my own and she responds in kind. The result is a relationship that is positive for both of us and our kids.

What you seem to be doing is trying to attach a movement of black female improvement to your personal interest in white men. There are commenters here who have flat out say that black women should place top priority on finding good non-black men. Why? Are good black men inferior to good white men? I mean, what would be your opinion if I said that black men should place first priority on finding good white women?

One thing I can tell you is that single black men who prioritize being good professional men who are family oriented do commonly get turned down when approaching black women they are interested in. I understand that there are many things that go into attracting a woman and that a woman will not automatically go for you simply because you are of good character. But it does undermine the so-called urgency that is portrayed with regard to black women finding good husbands.

As for myself, I am about 5'9", athletically built, and not overweight. I don't drink, smoke, nor do any drugs. I have no tattoos, I have a low conservative haircut and I shave all facial hair. I wore no jewelry before gaining a wedding band, and I am not a flashy dresser. I dress appropriately for occasions, and when the time is right, I will put on a suit. I listen to a variety of music including oldies, I hold out chairs, stand up for and open doors for ladies. I like to dance, travel, go to the movies, ride horses (I live in Texas), work out, go to the beach, go to jazz clubs, comedy clubs, concerts, etc. I have a graduate degree and I am a school teacher. I never cared for your standard popular nightclubs.

I give this info because I would like to express how often I was considered boring by black women when I was a single man (a couple of honest women actually told me this when I inquired). For every 6 or so black women I would approach, maybe one would really take interest. I approached women I was personally attracted to, yet few or none of them would be viewed by most as beauty queens. I don't consider myself special. I've been told that I was "cute". I just figured during my single days that these women had many men to choose from, since most of the black women I approached didn't show much interest.

The black women interested in me were good women who would be good wives and one of them I married, but the others seemed to want some type of excitement that they felt that I couldn't give. They simply were not impressed with my lack of a wild side. I think that this is the reason that black women tend to not go for white men. White men are less inclined to exhibit that wild and reckless side than black men, but I have also noticed that black women are more accepting of a conservative nature from white men than they do black men. A white man can be a nerd, yet a black nerd is something to jeer at.

I'm sure that you ladies will say that you are not like that, yet you ladies are but a handful of individuals. Black women are going to have to make a choice as to what they want, the thrill or the stability. Making such a choice does not mean choosing non-black men because there are plenty like myself who are confused when black women say there are no good black men, yet they are often turned down by black women they are interested in.

Anonymous said...

"There are commenters here who have flat out say that black women should place top priority on finding good non-black men. Why? Are good black men inferior to good white men?"

No, but it might be easier and take less painful trial and error to find a good white man than a good black man. After all, there are more white men than black men in America. By and large, women have less time to waste in order to find a good man and have children. The black community does not have enough good black men to go around, so many of us will exhaust ourselves and out time trying to find one since there are only 85 black men for ea. 100 black women in the country anyway. Without eliminating those who are unstable, incarcerated, or lifelong playas.

You sound like a reasonable person, but since you're already married, why do you care if a group of black women choose to look outside the race for a partner? In doing so, we reduce the time it takes to find what we want--a family, and we might reach the goal with less emotional baggage and fewer bruised hearts.

Aimee said...

What you seem to be doing is trying to attach a movement of black female improvement to your personal interest in white men.

Actually, what we are doing is pointing out that BW's lives will improve when their intimate relationships improve--and their intimate relationships will improve when they resist the pressure to choose mates based first and foremost on the color of their skin instead of the content of their characters.

There are commenters here who have flat out say that black women should place top priority on finding good non-black men. Why? Are good black men inferior to good white men?

No, good black men are simply in shorter supply than good non-black men. We are a minority in this country, and a minority that is currently beset by a serious disproportion in the numbers of marriageable men and marriageable women. A BW increases her chances of finding viable mate tremendously by expanding her pool of candidates.

Anonymous said...

"a black nerd is something to jeer at."

I'm sure that almost every educated black woman I know can share that black men ridiculed them and ingnored them because they wanted to read books or attend a play, so don't make this only "the black man's burden". Many of us have been labeled "not black enough"!

There are many black man nerds who think they are too good a catch for a black woman nerd because she isn't "fine" enough, so they're down in Brazil right now trying save a prostitute because they sincerely don't think black women fit their beauty bill. Black men trying to date out of their league on the beauty scale is the reason they can't find a black women when the numbers are so disproportionately in their favor! Nerdy black women get overlooked each and every day. Everywhere black men go (except the jailhouse), there are mor black women than black men. On any college campus today, there are at least 3 black women to each black male student. He could find somebody if he really wanted a good woman.

Halima said...

I disagree about black women being "self-sacrificing mammies".
I do agree that many black women don't seem to care about themselves, but I can expand and say that black people often don't seem to care about themselves. Just like black men, black women seem to be self-destructive.


Thats just playing words. you can call it self-destructiveness expressed in self sacrifice if you like, but whatever it is, it is unhealthy for bw to prioritise others to the extent that they loose sight of their own needs.

People react emotionally to the term mammy however we did not just pick the term, its to show that we understand the history link behind bw sacrificing themselves in the past and their their present day actions are as a result of this historical premise.

Anyone who feels hurt by the term mammy, can please offer another which links the past burdens placed on bw and their current behaviour and we will be happy to exchange these terms.

What you seem to be doing is trying to attach a movement of black female improvement to your personal interest in white men. There are commenters here who have flat out say that black women should place top priority on finding good non-black men. Why? Are good black men inferior to good white men?

The most important area where bw need improvement is in the area of relationship and there is no way around the fact that they need to look wider to meet their relationship needs. if you wnat to read this as all my personal ineterst in wm please feel free to do so. Ultimately bw will reject or accept what they want to!

I mean, what would be your opinion if I said that black men should place first priority on finding good white women?

BM are already saying this in more ways than one. So what is YOUR and the black communtities response to such heresy. i dare say nothing just the ususal quickness to attack bw who you project your mindsets unto!

The black women interested in me were good women who would be good wives and one of them I married, but the others seemed to want some type of excitement that they felt that I couldn't give. They simply were not impressed with my lack of a wild side. I think that this is the reason that black women tend to not go for white men. White men are less inclined to exhibit that wild and reckless side than black men, but I have also noticed that black women are more accepting of a conservative nature from white men than they do black men. A white man can be a nerd, yet a black nerd is something to jeer at.

Nerds are not exaclty in everyones good books. Women of all races and creeds over the worlds reject nerds (try counting the number of teenage flicks out there about geeks getting rejected by white school girls and etc). i dont know why, and i think its silly however it is a trait that all women display and so i do not think that bw have a monopoly or do it more than others.

in fact i would bet that bw given the situation they face, are more likely to give nerds and etc a chance, it stands to reason, but if you have some other proof otherwise, besides your particular experince please do share. till then i am not going to berate bw for displaying typical reactions to men shared by all of womankind. Indeed do you know of any reason why bw should pay a higher penalty than other women.

however many bm think that bw should never reject them for any reason even if they dont care to take a bath for a week or are socially awkward etc. some bm even go as far as reaching for so called 'dimes', and get upset when knocked back, calling all bw evil for their experince with dimes. you probably wont admit this but it is possible that you overlooked your equivaent black female nerd, in your pursuits!

besides how many bm geeks/nerds are there out there anyway. where are all these nerds that bw are passing up left right and centre. you make it sound like the black group is overflowing with nerds who subsequently get rejected. thats a bit too incredible to believe.

Evia said...

I disagree about black women being "self-sacrificing mammies". I do agree that many black women don't seem to care about themselves,

I don't care whether YOU agree! Why do you think that your agreement is of any worth to a bw like me! If bm were truly there for bw, there wouldn't be the increasing numbers of sistas reading and responding to these blogs. These bf-other man blogs would not be mushrooming if there was not need.

So you, in essence, are saying that we're delusional and this is nothing more than--as the sista said above--a 'keep hope alive' message that you're spewing.

Okay, so some sistas didn't want you. There are MANY sistas who bm apparently don't want. You're not any better than they are. Do you go to bm blogs and advise them to pursue bw who they don't find appealing? LOL! Just because a woman is a bw doesn't mean that she has to pick a black man who doesn't appeal to her. It's nauseating to a woman to have a man who doesn't appeal to her touching her!!! Would you have wanted to be touching one of those sistas and have her about to vomit on you? Lawd haf mercy!!

A bw has LOTS of choices--IF they broaden their options and learn how to operate in that vein. Some bw are beginning to broaden their scope, but they don't know how to operate yet because it's like a new world to them. But they will learn. It's like going to a new city--you have to learn your way around.


but I can expand and say that black people often don't seem to care about themselves. Just like black men,

You keep trying to shift the focus to include black men. We're not interested. We've broadened our scope. We've moved on!! This is not one of those 'nothing but a brotha' blogs.

I'm a black womanist. I promote the interests of bw. Promoting the interests of bm has NOT proven to promote the interests of bw, but it has greatly promoted the interests of numerous nonblack women as I pointed out in response to Halima's new blog. Black women and their children are the most impoverished group in the country because

single black women + child=poverty

I've noticed ALL of my life that black men ALWAYS look out for themselves whether bw or black children get anything. The surest way for any bw to sink into poverty or stay stuck there is to have a child--ALONE, so bw, especially the ones who want children, must find loving, loveable, suitable and compatible men who are not marriage resistant and marry those men!

Anonymous said...

"Just because a woman is a bw doesn't mean that she has to pick a black man who doesn't appeal to her. It's nauseating to a woman to have a man who doesn't appeal to her touching her!!!"

Thanks Evia for stating this plainly. I've always had more attraction to non-bm. I tried to date one black man and it was really hard for me. I couldn't get interested in him at all. I decided I was doing him an injustice, so I stopped seeing him. He has all the right good black man credentials, but I lack physical attraction to him. I can't help it and no amount of debate or argument from black men or black women who support black men can change it. I wish they'd leave me alone to do what makes me happy. My life is a not a "black power" struggle. It's my life!

Felicia said...

Anon@4:54 PM said...

The black women interested in me were good women who would be good wives and one of them I married, but the others seemed to want some type of excitement that they felt that I couldn't give.

Congratulations on finding the right woman for you and don't let your past scar you. Move on.

They simply were not impressed with my lack of a wild side. I think that this is the reason that black women tend to not go for white men. White men are less inclined to exhibit that wild and reckless side than black men, but I have also noticed that black women are more accepting of a conservative nature from white men than they do black men.

This was your experience. There are countless numbers of attractive, interesting, and conservative natured BW who many BM have not been (and continue to not be) impressed with merely because the women are black. OR not light-skinned, long haired, mixed-looking, etc... enough.

And THESE women often don't have the happy ending that you eventually had.


A white man can be a nerd, yet a black nerd is something to jeer at.

I'm sure that you ladies will say that you are not like that, yet you ladies are but a handful of individuals.

And you sir, are but one individual. It is a LIE that MOST BW (especially attractive, and educated sistas) prefer "exciting" wildsided thugs which is what you're implying.

It's simply not true.


Black women are going to have to make a choice as to what they want, the thrill or the stability.

Exactly. That's what Halima, Evia, and everyone else has been saying. BW can continue to fish in a small heavily polluted pond or move on to the clear blue Open Seas.

Making such a choice does not mean choosing non-black men because there are plenty like myself who are confused when black women say there are no good black men, yet they are often turned down by black women they are interested in.

Making such a choice means choosing ONLY non DBR men period. And WM interested in BW have proven themselves to not be as color-struck and Eurocentric as your average BM in regardless to BW's looks. So interested WM should be HIGH up there on a sistas list. They've earned that right.

Plus, some BW flat out prefer them for reasons that matter to them. And do so without disparaging BM across the board. Unlike the way some "brothas" who prefer non BW do.

Anonymous said...

"I give this info because I would like to express how often I was considered boring by black women"

Knockoutchick says:
Hmmmm.....could that be because you ARE boring??? One can certainly be smart, educated, of good character and boring as hell! Happens all the time. Yet, WM who are boring or dull are a bit more aware.

Clarice said...

Evia said... You keep trying to shift the focus to include black men. We're not interested. We've broadened our

scope. We've moved on!! This is not one of those 'nothing but a brotha' blogs.

Ok let's make this clear - for the BM and the DBR who persist and want to stay hooked into - can you say leech,

parasite, clinging vine because of insecurity or self serving greed to BW. We are not interested - ONLY

(emotionally,mentally, spiritually, psychologically, physically and fiscally), healthy, secure, stable, kind,

respectful, respectable, considerate, responsible, caring men regardless of race, creed, color, culture etc. need

apply!If you are not in that group - do not apply.

Yes these blogs hammer on the point - to drive the message home to the women who are waking up, have woken up or are

on the move to keep strong and soldier on. The time for hope is gone. It is time for faith. - Hope is the substance

of things not seen - well news flash the women here see what we have not been seeing clearly and that it is not now

or not in the future coming from the DBR folks and their silent supporters and seen our way clear to clear out. We

are now clearing a path. Stop wasting your time and energy! Here is a thought if you spent as much time being about

something as you do singing the "keep hope alive refrain there would be no problem. Faith is about belief in action

and putting action behind the belief. It's not just believing in things not seen (a failed dream at best a total lie

at worse) but seeing reality (i.e. help is not comming and no one is going to do it for you so care of self is the

responsibility of self) and knowing what can be (health, happiness, fulfillment and self actualization) and believing

enough to act on it and make it happen.

Perhaps in addition to self interest and greed these poor fools who think their opinions matter recognize the truth

being told that there is not a chance for them to get it together because they are DBR - feel abandoned to their own

misery. BW - used abused and misused were the last and best hope because the DBR are useless to themselves and that

last best hope is now gone - moved on - no harm no foul no hating - forgiven and forgotten. In the spirit of not

holding on to poision in the hope the other person dies, remembering the lessons learned that that sometimes it's not

worth it or possible to teach and old dog new tricks, sometimes ya gotta let him scratch and rolled on.

The message is clear you are on your own - deal with it we have moved on! We know you are DBR and so apparently do

you though you hate to admit it and here is a news flash we no longer care! There is nothing that can be said or done

to make us care enough to turn back time or stop now and "keep hope alive". We wish you well but oh well- it is what

it is.

V/r

Clarice

Anonymous said...

Knockoutchick says:
Hmmmm.....could that be because you ARE boring??? One can certainly be smart, educated, of good character and boring as hell! Happens all the time.


Boring is enormously subjective term. My wife considers me quite entertaining as has other women before her, so I think that it is wrong to treat the term "boring" as a factual term. It is opinion. I have actually had numerous white women express interest in me and I have gone out with some. They overwhelmingly expressed being very entertained by me, yet I tended to push them away because I was so indoctrinated with the idea that my significant other would be black and I felt more comfortable with and was more attracted to black women.

Understand that I like science fiction. I like to read. I like documentaries. I like museums. I like dog shows. I like the zoo. I like horses. I liked jazz and the blues from a young age and oldies music. Most of the black women I have met were not interested in these things. That is not to say that I couldn't find those who were, but they were the minority. And the women I have pursued overwhelmingly were college educated. These things were just boring to most of them. The few white women I have met have been much more open minded to these things. My wife (who is African American and brown skinned) loves them.

And I must note that I am talking about my experiences during my early 20s. Those ladies may have changed as they got older.

The key, I think, is that I didn't stand out in the mainstream crowd. I didn't know any bigwigs. I didn't command attention. People didn't flock to me. I didn't know people wherever I went. I didn't drive expensive cars or wear expensive or stylish clothes all of the time. I didn't wear a lot of jewelry.

Yet, WM who are boring or dull are a bit more aware.

I don't understand this statement. Could you elaborate?

Red (this was an old nickname).

caligirl94117 said...

Hey Red,

You've been very respectful, so I hope you'll take these questions the right way and answer them.

Why are you here and what do you hope to gain from posting the "keep hope alive" message? The black women on this blog are interested in nonblack men for many reasons. Why not encourage black women blogs where the women want to find a black man?

Evia said...

Thanks Evia for stating this plainly. I've always had more attraction to non-bm. I tried to date one black man and it was really hard for me. I couldn't get interested in him at all. I decided I was doing him an injustice, so I stopped seeing him.

I hear you. I'm not sure at all why this bm is still here. LOL! In today's world, many AA women are choosing men from the global village, as I try to show with my blog. I'm attracted to some bm, but all of them don't appeal to me, despite any credentials, hobbies, income, I.Q. etc.

This man seems to be asking "how dare a bw NOT find any bm who's not a negative statistic" attractive ESPECIALLY if a ww finds him attractive? This statement of his tells me that he regards ww's standards as being superior to a bw's. That statement alone would get him crossed off my list as a possible romantic candidate, no matter what, because that statement implies that, in general, he thinks that bw are somehow less than ww. Maybe this is why some of those sistas weren't interested in him. They realized he had an inferiority complex and that is totally nauseating in a bm, the supposed leader of the black family and black community.

He needs to know that ww don't set the standards for ALL bw. The opposite should actually be the case. I personally think that ww should adhere to the standards of many bw because many bw have been pioneers of much in this country despite all of the shackles placed on bw and in spite of our low position on the hierarchy. We still found a way to keep on and still found and find a way to rise, and NO ww has ever had to do that.

It's such a turnoff to a proud bw like me when any bm even implies that any bw should emulate ww. Hell, my female ancestors and others like them nursed white babies at their breasts and raised hundreds of thousands, if not more, of white children. White women never nursed and raised black children. Ww have never had any cross to bear in this country as a group, yet a bm is throwing ww in our faces. That's disgusting to me. Nauseating!

It's interesting that his statements have helped me to capsulize the major reason why I'm not attracted to AA men as a group. For me, it doesn't have anything at all to do with looks, or much at all to do with lack of education/money, etc. What I don't like about many AA men I've encountered on and offline is that they HAVE NO PRIDE as men and therefore I know I could never respect or love any man like that. So many of them have no thoughts of their own, no standards of their own, no whatever of their own. They constantly take their marching orders from wm, who they claim they despise, EVEN when they don't have to do so. I don't want any man who can't think for himself--as a role model for my children and in general, I'd just rather not be around them.

Even during slavery, many AA men had their OWN thoughts and standards that they would share when the wm wasn't around. This is no longer the case. (SMH)

Anonymous said...

Halima said...
Thats just playing words. you can call it self-destructiveness expressed in self sacrifice if you like, but whatever it is, it is unhealthy for bw to prioritise others to the extent that they loose sight of their own needs.


Well, I don't actually include "self-sacrifice" in my meaning. Making clearly poor choices in mates, having sex without birth control with someone not committed to you, trying to attract men by wearing skimpy clothes, etc. are self destructive behaviors that have nothing to do with self-sacrifice. I'm not sure what you mean by this. When I think of self-sacrifice by black women, I think of them sacrificing for their kids and I would never try to convince any person to stop sacrificing for their kids. Other than that are the enablers and I view that as somewhat of a mental condition.

Black women are, in my opinion, the most independent women in the world. Black women tend do what they want to do as opposed to doing what someone tells them to do. Black women are very headstong and I simply don't see some presure to self-sacrifice and I don't see any more self-sacrifice among black woman than is the case for other women. Hispanic women live in the Machismo culture. Muslim women are like slaves. Asian women are viewed as being servile. Black men are accused of seeking white women because white women cater to them.

Where is the self-sacrifice beyond taking an unfair burden in rearing children? Black women are strong willed, self-assured, aggressive, independent, and much less proned to taking sh** from anyone. I simply don't see where black women are prioritizing any grown folks over themselves.

People react emotionally to the term mammy however we did not just pick the term, its to show that we understand the history link behind bw sacrificing themselves in the past and their their present day actions are as a result of this historical premise.

What present day actions?

Anyone who feels hurt by the term mammy, can please offer another which links the past burdens placed on bw and their current behaviour and we will be happy to exchange these terms.

What exactly is such current behavior?

The most important area where bw need improvement is in the area of relationship and there is no way around the fact that they need to look wider to meet their relationship needs.

I have nothing against black women dating anyone of any race. I don't get mad when I see an interracial couple. Not my business. But I don't agree that black women are somehow significantly pressured by the black community to not date other races. I recall one study showing that women of all races are less inclined than men to date outside of their race and generally prefer men of their own race. Black women actually express more willingness to date Hispanic men than white men and very little interest in dating Asian men. So while you may want more black women to date white men or other men, in my opinion, the reason it is not happening to the level you would like is because of preferences and not some social pressure.

if you wnat to read this as all my personal ineterst in wm please feel free to do so. Ultimately bw will reject or accept what they want to!

I'm not trying to judge you or anyone else. I respect your views. You know your own motivations, but I get the impression that much of your motivation is personal. And of course, we all generally are motivated by personal experiences, but I think that it is a mistake to go extreme.

BM are already saying this in more ways than one. So what is YOUR and the black communtities response to such heresy. i dare say nothing just the ususal quickness to attack bw who you project your mindsets unto!

I don't think that black men are saying this at all, especially with 90% of black men who are married being married to black women. I dare say that if all black men marry, at least 90% of those marriages would be to black women and probably more.

Nerds are not exaclty in everyones good books. Women of all races and creeds over the worlds reject nerds (try counting the number of teenage flicks out there about geeks getting rejected by white school girls and etc). i dont know why, and i think its silly however it is a trait that all women display and so i do not think that bw have a monopoly or do it more than others.

In my experience, black women do it more than white women and Asian women. I think that appreciating "nerds" is a good way for women to open up their options, but like you say, it is not in everyone's book just like white men are not in every black woman's book. You simply can't change people's personal desires. And "nerd" is a general term that varies in meaning. We are not talking about the characters from "Revenge of The Nerds". I am talking about intellectual men with diverse interests who are not flashy, members of fraternities, socialites, etc.

in fact i would bet that bw given the situation they face, are more likely to give nerds and etc a chance, it stands to reason, but if you have some other proof otherwise, besides your particular experince please do share. till then i am not going to berate bw for displaying typical reactions to men shared by all of womankind.

Yet you berate black women's strong tendency to pursue men of their own race, which is something they share with all of womankind. But no, I don't see black women as more likely to give 'nerds' a chance. That's just my experience. Maybe when they get into their 30s or 40s.

Indeed do you know of any reason why bw should pay a higher penalty than other women.

What penalty? Are you saying that dating nerds is a penalty?

however many bm think that bw should never reject them for any reason even if they dont care to take a bath for a week or are socially awkward etc.

Now you are making no sense to me. I could say that you think that bw should date wm even if they don't take a bath or are socially awkward. I'm not talking about dating weirdos.

some bm even go as far as reaching for so called 'dimes', and get upset when knocked back, calling all bw evil for their experince with dimes.

Some black women do the same thing regarding 'hunks' (I don't know what young black women are calling men they think are attractive today). Plenty of black women call black men dogs for the actions of the very dogs they choose to date.

you probably wont admit this but it is possible that you overlooked your equivaent black female nerd, in your pursuits!

I never called myself a nerd. You deduced that from my description. But with our similar interestes, if I'm a nerd, my wife definitely is one.

besides how many bm geeks/nerds are there out there anyway. where are all these nerds that bw are passing up left right and centre. you make it sound like the black group is overflowing with nerds who subsequently get rejected. thats a bit too incredible to believe.

Being that young men tend to move away from things that make them less popular with the girls, it stands to reason that there would be less nerdiness among black men. But while you are throwing the term nerd around, I'm am specifically talking about intellectual men who are not flashy and have diverse interests. I am not talking about someone who would be viewed as a weirdo. I don't wear glasses and I was football player.

Red

EmergingPhoenix said...

@Evia - You know, I think this is a good point a lot of the naysayers are missing. Just b/c a bm is "good on paper", this does not guarantee a connection. Broadening your horizons greatly increases your chances of finding someone who you can connect with spiritually (which is greatly important to me), and I don't mean religiously, as I am not a religious person, but it covers all people regardless of belief.

@Red - It is great that you found a woman you can connect with, who happens to be black. Especially if that is what you would prefer. However, the point is that you didnt choose her simply b/c she was a bw, but b/c she shared something that allowed you to connect with her. I am a very passionate and emotional person, and if I sensed for one second that you were not passionate or sure about me, I would walk, for a number of reasons that wouldn't be conducive to a healthy relationship. You seem to think something is wrong with the women who you were not compatible with, when the truth of the matter, is two black and educated people does not automatically equal a match "made in heaven". Those women were not for you, but that doesn't mean something was wrong with them. I am not sure if you are honestly expressing your thoughts or if you are consciously trying to make a flimsy case against bw. Either way, you need to move on. I am not thinking about any guy I walked away from, or wondering what it would have been like if they changed. They are out of my life, and I am a happier person for it. You do the same, and you won't find yourself on blogs like these inadvertently (benefit of the doubt here), casting all bw in a negative light.

EmergingPhoenix said...

@Red - Stop it! Please just move on. This is a ridiculous stereotype, and you know it. It seems that you have some sort of animosity towards the women who rejected you. I have heard this time and again from "intellectual" bm, when in fact they were surrounded by not only intelligent, but some really gorgeous bw, who had very eclectic tastes, and didn't judge them by some "nerd-o-meter". It's an excuse, plain and simple, and you seem like you are here to 'wag a finger' at the women who you think turned up a nose at you. I have to wonder why you are with a bw, and how you view and conduct yourself in your relationship with her. Do you make her feel lucky to have you, or do you feel that she is lucky to have you. If you don't think there is a difference, then there isn't much I can say, but Good Luck with that one. =)

Anonymous said...

Hi caligirl94117. I really don't expect any particular gain from posting here beyond a healthy exchange of ideas. I think that this is how we learn and grow. I didn't see myself as throwing something off topic into the mix. This particular thread discusses how 90% of of bm marry black women, yet only 30% are married. Thus, why would a black man's perpective not be welcomed since black men are key to the discussion. I get mixed messages here, but I have heard the message of choosing non-damaged men of all races, which I presume includes non-damaged black men. I don't think that I am damage, so am I the enemy?

I don't think that I have made bm the center of the discussion because that would mean discussing black men's problems which I am not. I am discussing black women's problems from a black male perspective.

I don't know of any black females for black males blogs. Can you refer me to one? I participate on black discussion boards that often addresse relationship and marriage issues and there, I often put black men center and this often involves criticizing black men for not stepping up or blaming the white man, etc. But I do think that black men are misrepresented and a foreign person reading this blog will think that most black American men are running rampant, killing, raping women and children, etc. and that is simply just untrue. I have sons who will have to deal the perceptions formed by such words.

But I thank you and appreciate your questions and civility and thank Hamila for the opportunity to share.

Red

Anonymous said...

It seems that you have some sort of animosity towards the women who rejected you.

Not in the least. I have never expected anyone to desire me. I simply appreciate those who do and I base my feeling on those who like me and not on those who don't.

Do you make her feel lucky to have you, or do you feel that she is lucky to have you.

Neither. I just do my best to make sure that she is happy and protected and I appreciate the fact that she chose me as the one to spend the rest of her life with.

caligirl94117 said...

"I have heard the message of choosing non-damaged men of all races, which I presume includes non-damaged black men. I don't think that I am damage, so am I the enemy?"

Red, thanks for your civility, but you missed the fact that the title of the blog is Black Women's Interracial Circle. In my book, dating black men doesn't count as interracial. I read this blog to be encouraged in my efforts to date nonblack men, not to have black men tell me they aren't "that bad" or if I keep looking, I might find one. Every black man who has posted here thus far has had the agenda of keeping black men on my list when I've crossed them off the list.

Halima said...


Red
Where is the self-sacrifice beyond taking an unfair burden in rearing children? Black women are strong willed, self-assured, aggressive, independent, and much less proned to taking sh** from anyone. I simply don't see where black women are prioritizing any grown folks over themselves.


Indeed rasisng 70% of all aa children single handedly is just cake walk isnt it, it doesnt cout as part of the self-sacrifice? As for not seeing bw prioritising others needs above theirs, lets just say that it might be a case of you seeing what you want to, dont you think?

I have nothing against black women dating anyone of any race. I don't get mad when I see an interracial couple. Not my business. But I don't agree that black women are somehow significantly pressured by the black community to not date other races.

It appears you havent yet grasped the fact that we dont care what you believe or not, its not important that you dont agree with our perspective, its surely not going to make us toss out all our experieces and analysis because a lone bm walks unto the 'set' to instruct us of what our real perspective should be!

I'm not trying to judge you or anyone else. I respect your views. You know your own motivations, but I get the impression that much of your motivation is personal. And of course, we all generally are motivated by personal experiences, but I think that it is a mistake to go extreme.

and i am supposed to be bothered by what you think my motivation is right?

I think that appreciating "nerds" is a good way for women to open up their options

See above for what we think about what you think!

Yet you berate black women's strong tendency to pursue men of their own race, which is something they share with all of womankind.

I see you are in to manufacturing facts now are you, can you please point or quote a portion of my writings were i suggest this?

Anonymous said...

Hey Caligirl

I wish you could explain this to all of those black female trolls on whitewomenblackmen.com.

Anonymous said...

The message is clear you are on your own - deal with it we have moved on! We know you are DBR and so apparently do you though you hate to admit it and here is a news flash we no longer care! There is nothing that can be said or done

Red, don't sweat these broads. They are racist and self-haters who berate bm as an excuse to be with a white man. I would be cool with this site if they just admitted they hate themselves and want mixed babies.

These women are a very small percentage of black women. They typically educated with an advanced degree and interact mainly in white corporate circles.

Another thing is that these women are elitist and snobbish. They claim they are "evolved" and only a white man can be a suitable partner for them.

Red, do you really think a working class black women with two kids has a real shot of finding a white prince professional? What single man w/ no kids really wants to raise another man's seed?

This whole experiment is about to backfire on them. Most of these broads are in there thirties and forties. Very few men of means in their 30s or 40s wants a woman that age.

Think about this-- how can you chastise and criticize one group for their supposed preference in the opposite sex and then proclaim yours on a site like this (ludicrous).

Lastly, the ones who do find a white man will have to deal with his typical mid-life crisis where he decides to upgrade to a younger model.

caligirl94117 said...

"Hey Caligirl

I wish you could explain this to all of those black female trolls on whitewomenblackmen.com"

I'd never even follow that link since I don't expose myself to toxic environments. If other black women want to waste their time arguing for crumbs of black men, then I'll leave them to it. I know better. Too bad black men don't know better than to come here trying to change my mind. The best way for black women to improve our stock is to become in short supply to black men, not beg them. Maybe by the time my granddaughters are born, black men will have a different tune, but I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

Don't feed them ladies. DON'T feed them. And certainly don't open ANY link posted by them. Let them starve.

They're here because they're threatened by the positive and self-empowering message to BW being promoted by Halima, Evia, and others.

Don't waste your time going back and forth with them!

And remember put into PRACTICE what you're preaching here.

Because when you're in a positive loving relationship, it won't matter WHAT these DBR fools say.

Heck, it doesn't matter what they say even IF you're single.

Again ladies, starve them of the unwarranted attention they so desperately desire.

Clarice said...

This is fascinating to watch. 12:56 AM Anonymous said...
The message is clear you are on your own - deal with it we have moved on! We know you are DBR and so apparently do you though you hate to admit it and here is a news flash we no longer care! There is nothing that can be said or done Red, don't sweat these broads. They are racist and self-haters who berate bm as an excuse to be with a white man. I would be cool with this site if they just admitted they hate themselves and want mixed babies. These women are a very small percentage of black women. They typically educated with an advanced degree and interact mainly in white corporate circles. Another thing is that these women are elitist and snobbish. They claim they are "evolved" and only a white man can be a suitable partner for them."


If all of the things you said above are true Anonymous then - why are you here? Why do you care what the women here think? Why are you trying so hard to gain the approval of or win the favor of women such as you described? Why does it matter to you so much? Are you that insecure, neurotic - desperate for approval?

Is this the only site on the web that you can find? Why does it matter so much that the women here agree with you - you are working very hard to prove a point or win over the minds of women you do not respect or like based on your post?

That makes no sense - you claim to despise the women here and yet you can't leave and go on about your business - perhaps you have even less of a life than self esteem and self respect. Most people are happy to be ignored by people that do not matter to them. A self respecting person does not pursue something/someone unless they perceive it/them as valuable.

A person with good self esteem does not care what people who do not matter to them thinks does or says - so your fascination with the women here, despite your proclaimed dislike is as amusing as puzzling. The women here have walked away from you and your ilk and yet it drives you to continue to come here and plead your case and scream for attention. Clearly low self esteem compels you to remain here like petulant two year olds because negative attention, being ignored is better than being alone.



V/r



Clarice

Aphrodite said...

To Anon:

"Are good black men inferior to good white men?"



No, good black men are not inferior to white men. It is just that the numbers of good black men are smaller than the numbers of good non black men.


And out of those small numbers of good black men you have to factor in compatibility, attraction, common values etc so the numbers get even smaller.

Anonymous said...

Maybe by the time my granddaughters are born, black men will have a different tune, but I doubt it.

Yep, because your granddaughters will be with black men.

Anonymous said...

It is just that the numbers of good black men are smaller than the numbers of good non black men.

Exactly. And the numbers of good black women are likewise smaller than the numbers of good non-black women. It is good that there are more and more of you who accept that whites are better.

Evia said...

Lastly, the ones who do find a white man will have to deal with his typical mid-life crisis where he decides to upgrade to a younger model.

Another DBR man shaking in his drawers. LOL! And what makes you think that a woman can't upgrade too!! As the saying goes, "a woman can look up a LOT longer than a man can look down." LOL! Trust--there are a lot of younger wm especially who LOVE older women and not to pay their bills either.

Keep in mind that bw who take care of themselves look young longer than any other group of women. This is a fact. And bw also have that personality spark and warmth that a lot of men just love. I KNOW I'll always have a quality man as long as I want one because African men and white men love me and this has been proven.

AA men are the main men who have a problem dealing with bw in this country. After most wm get past the first racial hurdle to be with a bw, they usually always want another relationship with a bw.

So once again, if we're so less-than, why are you here? You should know by now that we'll NEVER stop talking about the DBRbm out there because the DBRbm constantly prey on too many bw.

I, for one, am happy that many DBRbm have widened their scope and are now branching out. Why should bw have to take all the hits?

However, other communities are not going to allow their females to be destroyed. This is why many DBRbm are scared that too many bw might escape and that there won't be a safety net of bw for y'all to fall back on. But we're going to make sure that the message gets out urging all sistas to broaden their scope and NEVER settle for a DBR man.

Sistas, this is why it's so important to send other sistas to our blogs and start your own blog. We must get the word out to other sistas and teach them that they have choices. Not all of them are interested, but a lot of them are just pretending not to be interested in nonblack men. Any sensible woman would prefer to fish in the ocean instead of in a 'polluted pond' as one sista here said.

Btw--Congratulations to Aimee who has now set up her blog!!

Anonymous said...

Trust--there are a lot of younger wm especially who LOVE older women and not to pay their bills either.

Yeah right, keep dreaming that one. You think you know men better than men. lol

If you think BF WM couplings are in the minority then try old woman / young man. I'm talking at least seven years apart.

It doesn't fit biology. Young men look for the most fertile female to mate with.

Aphrodite said...

You are so disprespectful. I hope a BROAD in her 30's and 40's will run you over in her car!


This is funny:


"Red, do you really think a working class black women with two kids has a real shot of finding a white prince professional? What single man w/ no kids really wants to raise another man's seed?"




I think a working class black woman has a hell of a shot. Espcially if she had all the inner qualities that a man in that position was looking for. And particularly if he wanted a traditional stay at home arrangement. Men of means often marry down.


Even a blue collar, techie, mid level professional white prince is good. Since most white men marry the chances are high that a white guy or or other non black man will already have children from his former marriage as well. Therefore a traditional arrangement would be beneficial to a blended family.



Just because a woman is working class doesn't mean she isn't smart or want the best for her family. It just means that she doesn't have the resources.






"This whole experiment is about to backfire on them. Most of these broads are in there thirties and forties. Very few men of means in their 30s or 40s wants a woman that age."



How would you know what a white/non black man of means wants since you are neither?



Research cities like New Orleans, Santo Domingo, the Carolinas etc. Those free communities of color were established by the unions between black women and white men.





"Lastly, the ones who do find a white man will have to deal with his typical mid-life crisis where he decides to upgrade to a younger model."




As opposed to the DBRBM's whole life crisis??? At least in the event of an unfortunate occurrance of such she and her children will be cared for - which is more than what's happening with DBRBM.

Evia said...

If you think BF WM couplings are in the minority then try old woman / young man. I'm talking at least seven years apart.

It doesn't fit biology. Young men look for the most fertile female to mate with.


You're engaging in wishful thinking. LOL!

You're the one who brought up a wm leaving his black wife during mid life crisis. A very weak scare tactic! The assumption here is that the black wife is also in her middle years. Such a woman doesn't want to be fertile because she's usually already had children. If, for ex., a 45 year bw meets a 35-38 year old wm and they click, he could very well be just fine. He may already have a child or two from previous relationships because many men at that age already have had children.

If I were in that situation and he wanted me to have a child, I would end the relationship and find someone else. An intelligent, full of life, reasonably attractive, well-maintained, educated and exposed bw like me and many other sistas can get a LOT of nonblack men these days. You may think that most ww are superior to most bw, but a LOT of wm don't think that way and some of those wm are figuring out right now how to get over those racial hurdles.

Sistas, this is why you must continue to get your education, travel, focus on fitness and health, be broadminded, think positively and know that you are desired by many men, though some of them are not in your immediate environment.

Anonymous said...

Those free communities of color were established by the unions between black women and white men.

And in New Orleans and other parts of Louisiana, the products of those unions were light skinned, black creoles who were racist toward dark skinned blacks.

Zabeth said...

"These women are a very small percentage of black women. They typically educated with an advanced degree and interact mainly in white corporate circles."

This reeks of the sentiment that if a BW demands anything of a man in a relationship she is somehow stuck up or a golddigger. BW are the only women in this country who are not allowed to expect something out of a mate or a relationship and are expected to take whatever comes their way. That has to change.

"Another thing is that these women are elitist and snobbish. They claim they are "evolved" and only a white man can be a suitable partner for them."

Hmmm, I wonder if this is our favorite you know who?

"Red, do you really think a working class black women with two kids has a real shot of finding a white prince professional? What single man w/ no kids really wants to raise another man's seed?"

Who said anything about children? I'm willing to bet that the majority of women here aren't babymamas. Why do you assume that every BW has illegitimate children? In order to make reference like that out of left field you must for some reason believe that about BW. You're probably the guy wondering around out there with 3 or 4 kids with 3 or 4 different women.

"This whole experiment is about to backfire on them. Most of these broads are in there thirties and forties. Very few men of means in their 30s or 40s wants a woman that age."

Another narrow minded assumption.

"Lastly, the ones who do find a white man will have to deal with his typical mid-life crisis where he decides to upgrade to a younger model."

And no BM has ever done that?!?!? Please. What do you call Ice T's Coco?

Anonymous said...

You're the one who brought up a wm leaving his black wife during mid life crisis. A very weak scare tactic! The assumption here is that the black wife is also in her middle years. Such a woman doesn't want to be fertile because she's usually already had children. If, for ex., a 45 year bw meets a 35-38 year old wm and they click, he could very well be just fine. He may already have a child or two from previous relationships because many men at that age already have had children.

You say this as if it's common place. There maybe a few brave young men out there to test the water, but more than likely he's marrying up.

You say mid-forties women like yourself can snatch up guys 10 years younger than you on the regular... lol that is about the craziest thing I've heard. You truly are DBR BW (Desperate Beyond Repair Black Women)

Anonymous said...

They are racist and self-haters who berate bm as an excuse to be with a white man. I would be cool with this site if they just admitted they hate themselves and want mixed babies. These women are a very small percentage of black women. They typically educated with an advanced degree and interact mainly in white corporate circles. Another thing is that these women are elitist and snobbish. They claim they are "evolved" and only a white man can be a suitable partner for them."

Preach!

Anonymous said...

Who said anything about children? I'm willing to bet that the majority of women here aren't babymamas. Why do you assume that every BW has illegitimate children? In order to make reference like that out of left field you must for some reason believe that about BW. You're probably the guy wondering around out there with 3 or 4 kids with 3 or 4 different women.

You're right, the women on this site probably don't have kids. Contrast that with less educated black women who are more likely to have kids and don't benefit from your white man dreams.

Sorry, I defintely don't have kids or any on the way.

Aimee said...

Aphrodite said...
You are so disprespectful. I hope a BROAD in her 30's and 40's will run you over in her car!
___________________________________

He is quite disrespectful, isn't he? And isn't it interesting that one of our self-proclaimed "good black men," who insists that so many BW are single solely because of their disdain for (black) nerds and taste for "excitement" (i.e., thug love), has nary a word to say about this fine example of DBRBMalehood?

It's the same way that so-called "good" brothas ignore all the DBRBM in prison, all the DBRBM who abandon their children, all the DBRBM who are persistently unemployed and dependent on women, all the DBRBM who lie, cheat and abuse their sisters--and encourage single BW to smile more, and maybe find a prison pen pal.

I guess it didn't occur to this "good brotha" that being a good black man might entail DEFENDING BW from disrespectful treatment.

Oh, no--after all, BW are "strong willed, self-assured, aggressive, independent, and much less proned to taking sh** from anyone"--i.e., we are the mules of the world, who can bear any burden and withstand any assault. Unlike other women, we neither require nor merit defense, and can be spoken to and treated any way a "brotha" chooses.

Thank you for your inspiration Halima and Evia! I plan to blog away, and encourage as many sisters as I can to do the same, so that more and more BW are freed from the self-imposed restraints that prevent them from seeking the BEST that the world has to offer them! No sister should EVER settle for males like this.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm, I wonder if this is our favorite you know who?

You mean that "you know who" whose blog you used troll on?

Evia said...

Y'all Damaged Beyond Repair Black Men (DBRbm) are now showing the world your DAMAGE--coming here with your poison. You're doing exactly what you do everywhere y'all find bw--trying to take bw low.

Well, there are many wm and other nonblack men who see all of us educated, intelligent, articulate and beautiful bw and while y'all are busy dissing us, they'll just come and comfort us. Isn't that what men do when they see desirable women under attack? Yep. Pretty soon, the bulk of higher status bw will be with wm because while y'all are busy dissing and discriminating against us, wm are watching and listening.

And after NEWSWEEK does an article on the leap in bf-wm marriages, y'all will be foaming-at-the-mouth mad at de evil wm and complaining that de evil wm has taken all the best bw. LOL!!!! However, for da po' bm, that's how it always goes because a fool and his valuables are ALWAYS parted. Y'all never learn.

And that's my last bit for the trolls.

Sistas, keep moving towards excellence. You are being noticed and studied by quality men who will figure out how to connect with you. Just get prepared.

Anonymous said...

These Desperate Beyond Repair
black women also play the sympathy card.

They claim they are the most abused women on the planet. Please tell that to your Arab sisters in Afghanistan and Indonesia. Imagine if the black community forced you to wear berkas or forbid you from driving.

Black women have all this freedom to talk trash about black men and proclaim their love for white men. In Saudi they would be stoned for talking about men like that.

Anonymous said...

Pretty soon, the bulk of higher status bw will be with wm because while y'all are busy dissing and discriminating against us, wm are watching and listening.

Oh, I've already said goodbye to your type ... the elitist, snobbish type.

An accomplished black man like myself could never be good enough for women like you who need to rule over their men.

Anonymous said...

Black women have all this freedom to talk trash about black men and proclaim their love for white men. In Saudi they would be stoned for talking about men like that.

LOL Remember hun, we're not talking about men when we're telling the truth about DBR trolls like yourself and all of the silent "good brothas".

Ya'll haven't earned that title, So YOU and you ilk shouldn't be offended.

And Saudi's have even LESS respect for ya'll than us BW who've seen the light.

MUCH less.

TRUST me on this one.


They'd have your you no what's on a platter if you even THOUGHT about disrespecting their women.

girl with the questions said...

lol black women are stoned regularly for talking about black men.

the high incidence of rape, gang rapes in black communities is not unworthy of comment.

always comparing bw in the US to foreign women. young boys in afghanistan, sierra leone, etc have it worse. they are conscripted into armies and force to commit violent acts and force fed drugs but has that ever stopped bm from whining about their plight no.

bm are renowned for their oversensitivity. it's very noticeable how saying anything other than bowing at the feet of black men is treason but bw are little more than concrete to the black people.

for people who are so brave and enlightened why all the posting as anonymous. the same people who refuse to say anything to their sons who will sell negative images of blacks across the world or the bm who kill and rape bw are so ready to go at it on a blog.

why must everyhting be around bm. the very necessity to discuss bm on a blog about bw and their interests (nonblack men being one of them) is just another example of how bw are expected to put themself last. is there nowhere on earth a bw can go to get away from bm? constantly forcing yourself on someone is disgustingly pompous and annoying.

love the people whining about elevating wm while saying that since ww liked him he must be a great guy. here's some ww for you: jesse davis, anna nicole, nicole simpson, britney spears. yeah a couple of them are dead but hey dead white women are the greatest.

Anonymous said...

yeah and the woman stoning saudis still would rather marry their daughter to a dog than a bm, so what is it to you.

another trait of the typical bm going 10,000 miles or 10,000 years in the past to show how much you care about women. if half this concern was shown to bw or your own daughters, it would be more believable.

bm use every platform available to them to show the disdain for bw and anybody that calls them on it is considered a race traitor. yet some women are on a blog and every one is whining about this being the downfall of the black race. there are way more black men with nonblack women so if you have such a tizzy with IR relationships starte there. doing anything else is hypocritical.

as far as discussing bm, it's impossible not to when they keep interjecting themselves into the conversation. the least of bm problems is where they are going to be getting companionship. jobs, education, not making a general nuisance and pestilence of themself would be better projects.

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